Is our defense as bad as most around here say it is?

[Sydla]

They have potential to get a little better.

Irving is limited by a groin issue and is very young. - I think his bigger issue is that he's not a DE. He's an interior player and might be a pretty good one at that.

Mayo is coming off a knee injury and missed most of training camp. He is young. - He's a JAG.

M. Collins is just getting started. He is very young. - Like him a lot. I didn't see the breakdown of what he played against the Bears. More 1 tech or 3 tech? He's a future 3 Tech IMO.

Davis might come on with more scheme knowledge. - He's basically the only hope now to get pass rush out of someone not named Lawrence.

Nacho looked like stud physically in the preseason. He is very young. - Like him. Hitchens should not see the field much when he's back.

Jones is already making a huge difference and he is very young. - He's getting better week to week.

Thorton seems to be adjusting to the scheme. He was terrific player last season in the Eagles-Cowboys games. He challenged Martin quite well. - Doesn't look like he's improved all that much. I wonder if his effectiveness last year in Philly was due to the fact he had two studs next to him that commanded more attention

 

[TwoCentPlain]

I think I read that the Stealers defense has 1 sack through 3 games.

I hope the DL can continue to stop the run and get some pressure, sacks may be too much to ask for based on the talent we have at DL and the fact that teams are moving toward getting the ball out quicker. And I would be happy if the DBs can know their assignments and not blow coverages and stay with the receivers for a decent amount of time. And win the turnover battle.

We all knew coming into the season that it was the offense who would have to take the team on its shoulders. Whatever the defense gives us is pretty much gravy.

 

[xwalker]

We generally agree.

I watched all of Thorton's snaps against the Cowboys last season. It wasn't just his teammates that made him good. His 1-on-1 battles with Martin showed a quality run defender. His ability to defend zone stretch type runs was really good and Martin wss definitely challenged. He looks like he lost a lot of weight this year and doesn't look as strong but does look quicker.

Irving was really effective inside last season.

I'm not giving up on Mayo yet. He does have a really good burst, but just hasn't been able to disengage. He missed most of the preseason so they haven't had much time to coach him up.

 

[ConceptCoop]

I wonder if [Thornton's] effectiveness last year in Philly was due to the fact he had two studs next to him that commanded more attention

I'm not pretending I watched a ton of snaps, but I did see Thornton getting double teamed quite a bit, from what I remember of him in Philly. So I don't think we can write it off on the supporting cast. I think it's more scheme and perhaps an effort issue, as he finally made some money. The money part is pure speculation, I haven't heard about any issues, but it woudln't be the first time a player doesn't play as hard after cashing in.

 

[JohnsKey19]

We'll always be at a disadvantage due to the complete lack of pass rush.

 

[bark]

One thing that has caught my eye is that our secondary seems to be breaking on the ball better. It has not showed up necessarily in INT yet but there have been several times when defenders have broken up passes or delivered a blow just as the ball got there to cause an incomplete pass.
Has the new secondary coach made a difference?
I am fearing the game we run up against a team that says we are going to run the ball right at you until you stop us.
So to answer the OP..... Don't know how bad we rate but we have some glaring weaknesses and not a lot of talent.
We are going to need that offense to keep chewing clock, scoring touchdowns and we need to keep getting turnovers

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I would say there are things that we're awful at. 1) Our pass rush is pathetic. This has been a consistent theme since Ware was in his prime, but especially the past few years. 2) We're almost guaranteed to give up the 3rd and long. You can't win when you can't stop drives. 3) Teams can score late on us at will, specifically when closing out the halves... I would say these 3 things make us an awful defense. We've just been lucky enough to not face any great offenses that can take advantage of that. I could see a team with a great offense putting up 50 on us if they wanted to.

 

[Sydla]

I'm not pretending I watched a ton of snaps, but I did see Thornton getting double teamed quite a bit, from what I remember of him in Philly. So I don't think we can write it off on the supporting cast. I think it's more scheme and perhaps an effort issue, as he finally made some money. The money part is pure speculation, I haven't heard about any issues, but it woudln't be the first time a player doesn't play as hard after cashing in.

Living up here I probably am forced to see more Eagles games than many Zoners. And for the record, I was fine with his signing.

But Thornton didn't see a lot of double teams, especially when Cox was playing on the same DL. It was Cox who saw the majority of doubles, etc.

I just wonder if he's just an average player. Which frankly, wouldn't be the worst thing as you need depth at DT. I just am not sure he's as good as I had hoped he would be.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

There are many things conspiring against the defense, but overall they are probably low average overall....somewhere around the 18-22 range.

First off, we really don't have a splash player. Lawrence is the closest thing on the DL. At LB we have Lee. In the secondary, there isn't a game changer, at least not so far. Maybe Jones depending on how he develops.

With a lot of decent guys but few studs, we have decided to play the traditional bend but don't break style. We give up a lot of yards, but so far not as many TD's as the yards would suggest. And despite the common theory that we would blitz more because of the lack of Lawrence, Gregory and Tapper...we have actually blitzed less than we did a year ago. Making teams move the ball in small chunks opens up the chances for more turnovers which we have seen a little bit thus far. In the run game, we have given up a few bigger chunks, but not anything really consistent.

The other thing, and I think to a certain extent it is a league wide issue, is that QB's are just getting rid of the ball much faster than they used to. The way to beat a pass rush is quick routes, rubs and pick plays that get players into open field and negates the stud pass rushers to an extent. Sure there are a few exceptions to this....Denver and the Vikings come to mind, but they are more of the exception rather than the rule.

Going forward, I do see some bright spots.

Demarcus Lawrence - one game until he is back, and we will have our best pure pass rusher back. That has to help. To this point most of our outside pass rushers have been facing man blocking, while our interior guys are getting double and triple teamed. Lawrence will feast on one on one blocking. If they change up, then our interior pass rush should become more effective.

Ryan Davis - people are going to laugh, but in about a handful of plays he got pressure on 2 or 3 of them and should have had a sack if not blatantly held. In the small number of plays, he showed a speed rush, a bull rush and an inside spin move. More than we have seen out of most of our guys.

David Irving - he is kind of this team's Anthony Spencer....he gets close a lot. Maybe the attention that Lawrence will get will make things a bit easier for him and he might get some more work inside where guards struggle with his length.

Terrell McClain - he has probably been our best DL so far. He has the first step to make it hard for OL but he consistently is getting doubled and sometimes tripled and still making some plays. Again, if Lawrence and Davis can get more attention outside...it could make him more of a factor.

Tyrone Crawford - has looked better at DE than at DT so maybe we will see him there more.

Maliek Collins - I didn't think he would contribute much at all, but he is getting better every game. The rotation of him, McClain and Thornton might make it possible for Tyrone Crawford to get more time outside and bring Jack Crawford back inside where he is more effective.

Cedric Thornton - he also is facing a lot of double teams inside so the presence of Lawrence and maybe Crawford outside can make it a little easier for him inside.

It's not a completely empty cupboard for Marinelli, who has to continue to mix and match to get his best combo's out there for each situation. There is a lot of pressure on Lawrence to be a difference maker. He is truly the key right now to our defense stepping up.

The secondary has been pretty decent given the current pass rush. The LB's are the biggest weakness at this point. I am hoping that Nzeocha will be back this week or next because he has the athleticism to be very effective in this defense.

My hopes for this defense's improvement right now rests with Lawrence, Davis and Nzeocha.

 

[Hoofbite]

Willing to bet this is year 3 or 4 in a row where this question has been asked.

The answer was, and still is, "yes". The defense is bad. No pass rush, although they may have a slightly improved pass coverage unit this year. The main reason they haven't looked as bad this year is because you haven't seen a lot of them yet. They've been protected by the offense up to now.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Maliek Collins - I didn't think he would contribute much at all, but he is getting better every game. The rotation of him, McClain and Thornton might make it possible for Tyrone Crawford to get more time outside and bring Jack Crawford back inside where he is more effective.

Are people seeing Collins get pressure? I'm just not noticing it, personally. He's made 2 or 3 nice plays down the field and that's nice. But I'm nost not seeing much push, personally. That said, I haven't gone back to look, so it could just be that I didn't notice.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Eli is a good QB.

He's better than the others, average I would say, but we lost that game anyway.

 

[KJJ]

He's better than the others, average I would say, but we lost that game anyway.

The QB we just faced is average.

 

[Denim Chicken]

The QB we just faced is average.

Their career completion % and QB rating are not far off from each other.

 

[KJJ]

Their career completion % and QB rating are not far off from each other.

Doesn't matter Eli has an 8-3 playoff record and has won 2 SB's. There's average QBs that have comparable completion percentages and higher career passer ratings than many HOF QBs.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Doesn't matter Eli has an 8-3 playoff record and has won 2 SB's.

Now you're moving from individual performance to team performance

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

I found this in the news forum.

Question: The Cowboys offense should be OK, but can the defense contain quality teams for Dallas to make a playoff run?

Gosselin: No. The Cowboys are 2-1 against middle-of-the-pack teams. The Giants gained 390 yards in just 24 minutes against this defense. The Commanders gained 432 yards in 27 minutes and the Bears 316 yards in 23 minutes. 49 passes by the Bears last night and no sacks. The Cowboys made no real investment in this defense in the offseason and it shows. Getting DeMarcus Lawrence back will help. But one man isn't going to turn this thing around.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/dmn-...as-dealt-bad-hand-but-hes-doing-right.357860/

He thought Dallas was one of the worst teams in the league. His opinion is diluted by an insurmountable bias.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Hearing a couple of other conversations around here I got to thinking is our defense really that bad? After all they are 10th in points suggesting they are a bend but don't break type of team. To which many say, that's just because they control the ball so well, which is also true, they are #1 in both plays and time per drive (which I really like moving forward BTW, yes it's because there aren't any deep completions but I love controlling the ball). In fact the Cowboys offense is dominant in pretty much every per drive stat (except for TDs which I think getting Romo back well help a lot with, not to mention Dak getting more experience).

So I started looking at the defensive per drive stats that supposedly the Cowboys are so bad at... And outside of yards I didn't see anything that horrifying. 18th in points, 14th in takeaways, 13th in points per red zone appearance. In terms of what I see mattering the most, points and takeaways (in that order) we are really pretty average, maybe slightly below. This is being done without our best pass rusher in DLaw who was averaging a sack a game at the end of last year and seemed to be getting regular pressure throughout the game.

While some might argue that this is because we played 3 bad teams... The Skins and Giants really aren't that horrible on offense, both are middle of the pack. The Bears are horrible sure, but then again we probably had better stats against the Giants and Commanders because we gave up so much against the Bears in garbage time.

Is there room for improvement, sure. I think getting the aforementioned DLaw back will help a lot there. Could this be a top 10 defense by the end of the year... Probably not. Could they perform our defense from two years ago... Probably. I think our secondary is there, we need a LB to go with Lee and we really really need a pass rusher. Maybe Durant and DLaw? Maybe?

P.S. the most telling stat for me our offense starts the average drive up 4.69 points, 5th in the league. Our defense might not be doing that good but our offense is picking up the slack in a big way.

Edit: stats were found at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2016

Yes.

We're very bad on defense.

We've done well enough so far but when we start seeing more and more explosive offenses the lack of pass rush is going to start to really kill us.

 

[KJJ]

Now you're moving from individual performance to team performance

Individual performance especially from a QB has a great affect on team performance which is why QBs are drafted so high. Eli wins games and has been a SB MVP which is why he's been a starting QB for so long. Brian Hoyer has been mostly a career backup because he's not consistent, the Bears are Hoyer's 6th team. Can't believe you want to argue Hoyer vs Eli. lol

 

[LocimusPrime]

I think I read that the Stealers defense has 1 sack through 3 games.

I hope the DL can continue to stop the run and get some pressure, sacks may be too much to ask for based on the talent we have at DL and the fact that teams are moving toward getting the ball out quicker. And I would be happy if the DBs can know their assignments and not blow coverages and stay with the receivers for a decent amount of time. And win the turnover battle.

We all knew coming into the season that it was the offense who would have to take the team on its shoulders. Whatever the defense gives us is pretty much gravy.

Steelers are ranked 27th in defense. Their D is junky. Vikings, Broncos, and Seahawks have good Ds