Is Ratliff done?

[CyberB0b]

I don't see anything that says Ratliff is a better player on 3rd down than he is in earlier downs.

"you take first and second down off this series and then get back in there on third. OK? "

"...if he’s getting a little worn then we’ll save him for third down.”

If they are saving him for 3rd down, doesn't that imply he is more effective in those situations? Basically, what the quote says is that Ratliff played the fewest percentages of snaps as a starter last year, because he was outplayed and replaced on 1st and 2nd down when he got worn out, and they saved him for 3rd downs.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

"you take first and second down off this series and then get back in there on third. OK? "

"...if he’s getting a little worn then we’ll save him for third down.”

If they are saving him for 3rd down, doesn't that imply he is more effective in those situations? Basically, what the quote says is that Ratliff played the fewest percentages of snaps as a starter last year, because he was outplayed and replaced on 1st and 2nd down when he got worn out, and they saved him for 3rd downs.

He said that Ratliff is better on 3rd downs than anyone else they have that playes the middle of the defensive line.

I find that completely believable.

But that doesn't mean that Ratliff did a good job on 3rd downs this past season-- because he didn't.

I hope he does do better on 3rd downs this year.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If only Ratliff would turn into a big fat tub of goo, only then he would truly be Pro Bowl caliber.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

If only Ratliff would turn into a big fat tub of goo, only then he would truly be Pro Bowl caliber.

:laugh2:

Yeah.

If he only added 40lbs and stayed "glued" to the line of scrimmage like "great" nose tackles are suppose to do.

 

[Risen Star]

If only Ratliff would turn into a big fat tub of goo, only then he would truly be Pro Bowl caliber.

You're right. The best 3-4 NTs aren't built that way.

One of the main reasons why our defense has never been legit since the scheme switch is the guy in the middle. He can't do it. Never could.

 

[Risen Star]

:laugh2:

Yeah.

If he only added 40lbs and stayed "glued" to the line of scrimmage like "great" nose tackles are suppose to do.

Nose tackles are supposed to take up space and eat blockers at the line of scrimmage.

 

[Frosty]

Don't forget to open this same thread about Jason Witten when you can find some time. His time in the barrel is overdue, and I've heard from reliable sources that you can just use your eyes to see his blocking has really dropped off.

Guess there is some truth to Jerry Jones statement about the Cowboys window closing. Ratliff is going down the same road as Bradie James, servicable today... over the hill tomorrow...

 

[InmanRoshi]

:laugh2:

Yeah.

If he only added 40lbs and stayed "glued" to the line of scrimmage like "great" nose tackles are suppose to do.

Well, obviously the NFL is a running league, and all the great offenses in the NFL feature power running attacks and forgo the pass, so having a fat tub of goo nosetackle is of the upmost importance.

I mean, really, if you look at the NFL is basically looks a whole lot like college football of the 60s and 70s. So many teams basically running the wishbone.

 

[InmanRoshi]

.........n/t

 

[InmanRoshi]

You're right. The best 3-4 NTs aren't built that way.

One of the main reasons why our defense has never been legit since the scheme switch is the guy in the middle. He can't do it. Never could.

I don't think the Patriots really care that no one else is the NFL is running a passing attack that features 2 TEs. I don't think the Packers give a crap that no one else in the NFL is employing as many 5 WR sets and empty backfields as they do. I don't give a crap about what a position is "s'pposed" to do by some antiquated definition from 1970s, and I don't give a crap about what other teams are doing, I just give a crap about utilizing good football players.

I don't know if you really watch much football around the NFL, but the game is changing rapidly. Teams are now using multipe set fronts, including the Cowboys, and your rudimentary elementary school understanding of what positions are 's'possed to do is getting more antiquated by the day. Vince Wilfork is playing as much 3 tech these days as 0.

 

[Blast From The Past]

I don't think Witten has the physical problems from the pounding that Ratliff has got. I think he has lost a step, but I don't see the drop off like I see in Ratliff. Ratliff has declined to the point that single linemen are pushing him back a couple of yards and he is not able to hold the POA.

Father Time waits for no man. Witten is still very good but Father Time is creeping up on him.

 

[Ultimategamer5567]

The only way a Ratliff-type NT works is if you have a good back-up to rotate in-and-out. And the only real effort to get that guy was when they drafted Josh Brent. And so far, he hasn't been that guy. If he can't evolve into that role, then Ratliff is as good as done after this year. The amount of punishment Jay Ratliff takes each game is rediculous.

 

[dfan32]

If getting Ratliff out at DE is such a great match-up, then tell me why the coaches don't do it now in situations. Maybe the coaches don't see Ratliff at DE as a superior match-up versus having Lissemore, Hatcher, Spears or Crawford out there.

It's certain fans who drool over Ratliff at DE for some reason but apparently Rob Ryan and Wade Phillips before him, not so much.

Its not like Rat takes 100% of the NT snaps now.

Am I missing something here? I believe Rat was acquired originally to be a DE. Under best circumstances, he would have never been put in the middle at all.

I don't know why they kept him there. Wade did seem to resist change in personnel at times and preferred his veterans over others. Ryan inherited him. Maybe he was enamored by the quickstep too but I'd be willing to bet by now, he is telling Garrett that Ratliff is done and must be replaced .

 

[Kristen82]

...but I'd be willing to bet by now, he is telling Garrett that Ratliff is done and must be replaced .

Or you could just reduce his PT to keep him fresh. Maybe eventually reduce his role to pass-rush specialist/have him come in only on 3rd downs.

 

[dallasfan4lizife]

You're right. The best 3-4 NTs aren't built that way.

One of the main reasons why our defense has never been legit since the scheme switch is the guy in the middle. He can't do it. Never could.

I completely agree with you.

 

[KJJ]

Ratliff's production has declined the last couple of years , and I think it was a bad decision to resign him last year. I have always liked Ratliff, but with the recent news about his injury, I am starting to think his decline will be fast. I don't know what his contract numbers are, but I don't see his production matching his pay. I don't blame the guy for wearing out. IMO he has played out of position due to his size and the years of double-teams has shortened his career. He has been a liability late in games for the last couple of years. Do you guys think his days are about over? How much dead money will the Cowboys have against the cap if he is cut in the next year or two?

Ratliff isn't done but he has become less effective due to constant double-teams. The lack of support in the pass rush hasn't helped his situation. There's a perception he's losing it but the fact is teams have figured out how to make him less effective.

 

[RealCowboyfan]

You're right. The best 3-4 NTs are built that way.

One of the main reasons why our defense has never been legit since the scheme switch is the guy in the middle. He can't do it. Never could.

^That's true

Ratliff is declining because he's a tweener playing Nose Tackle, this is what people fail to realize, Nose Tackles that played 14 or 15 seasons was 330 and more lbs, Ratliff is more like La'Roi Glove 285 or 300 at best, which still suits him as a defensive end in the 3-4 for him to have some longevity in his career rather than Nose Tackle which is diffently going to cut his career short sad to say. Why do you think that Ratliff wears down in the later quarters because he had to finesse his way through offensive linemen that is 330 or more lbs and he is being double team so when that happens most of the time in the second half he has no effect on the game whatsoever and in the second half of the season he diffently ain't no where to be found. Cowboys need to get a real Nose Tackle and stop trying to fit tweeners into position that is going to shorten their careers. Ratliff is not a true Nose Tackle. I wish Cowboys got Dontari Poe or that real Nose Tackle from Washington.

 

[RealCowboyfan]

The only way a Ratliff-type NT works is if you have a good back-up to rotate in-and-out. And the only real effort to get that guy was when they drafted Josh Brent. And so far, he hasn't been that guy. If he can't evolve into that role, then Ratliff is as good as done after this year. The amount of punishment Jay Ratliff takes each game is rediculous.

Naw the only way a Ratliff-type NT works is if you change the defense from 3-4 to 4-3, it would be less weight on his shoulders. As far as 3-4 it's only 3 defensive linemen (Which has to be big) for example defensive end in the 3-4 (Hatcher Haynesworth Ratliff)
weigh anywhere from 280 to 300 or more, as far as a nose tackle which is a key ingredient in the 3-4 it really require weighing 330 or more. , 4-3 is 4 defensive lineman (Ware Ratliff Hatcher Butler)

 

[jobberone]

You're right. The best 3-4 NTs aren't built that way.

One of the main reasons why our defense has never been legit since the scheme switch is the guy in the middle. He can't do it. Never could.

Nose tackles are supposed to take up space and eat blockers at the line of scrimmage.

Just not true. First of all Ratliff does not play NT say like Bill Parcells D. He plays one gap most of the time and has done a pretty good job of it. Last year was average IMO but that's the first time he's not played well above average.

I have said for several years we need a traditional two gap NT on the team to backup Ratliff. That doesn't mean we can't have another person who can also play that one gap in addition to Ratliff.

 

[Ultimategamer5567]

Naw the only way a Ratliff-type NT works is if you change the defense from 3-4 to 4-3, it would be less weight on his shoulders. As far as 3-4 it's only 3 defensive linemen (Which has to be big) for example defensive end in the 3-4 (Hatcher Haynesworth Ratliff)
weigh anywhere from 280 to 300 or more, as far as a nose tackle which is a key ingredient in the 3-4 it really require weighing 330 or more. , 4-3 is 4 defensive lineman (Ware Ratliff Hatcher Butler)

The Ratliff thing was working for three years. It can be sucessful. But - again - you need to constantly be rotating a back-up in-and-out, which is probably too much work for it's own good.