Is The Flozell Adams Age Truly Over?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I seems to see a lot of people basically writing off Adams as done after next season. He turns 32 next month and i dont think it crazy that he might have two or more good years left after next season.

Now i realize that for much of last year he had to be babysat by a TE but he was coming off a knee injury and seemed to come on as the season progressed. This year he should be 100% back.

The guy has been a pretty good LT for us the past 4 years and is in the prime years for offensive linemen. I also think that offensive line continuity is very important. I for one hope that we keep Adams for at least a few more years.

Unless he sucks next year that is.

 

[Aikbach]

I seems to see a lot of people basically writing off Adams as done after next season. He turns 32 next month and i dont think it crazy that he might have two or more good years left after next season.

Now i realize that for much of last year he had to be babysat by a TE but he was coming off a knee injury and seemed to come on as the season progressed. This year he should be 100% back.

The guy has been a pretty good LT for us the past 4 years and is in the prime years for offensive linemen. I also think that offensive line continuity is very important. I for one hope that we keep Adams for at least a few more years.

Unless he sucks next year that is.

He'll be back but probably with a pay cut.

32 year old players don't earn 7 million a year on the o-line when they are in the last contract of their career.

Flo could potentially start for Dallas another 3 years if he's healthy however, tackles peak around 28-32 and decline gradually thereafter.

 

[YoungBuck]

He costs way too much for the performance you get. He'll always be an underachiever and Jerry needs to stop waiting for him to ever live up to his potential.

Let him go off in FA and get the big contract he wants and may get.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He costs way too much for the performance you get. He'll always be an underachiever and Jerry needs to stop waiting for him to ever live up to his potential.

Let him go off in FA and get the big contract he wants and may get.

Underacheiver? hes gone to four straight probowls. If hes bad most of the other LT are worse. Now i realzie that the probowl is a bit of a popularity contest but at the same time hes got to at least be above average.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He'll be back but probably with a pay cut.

32 year old players don't earn 7 million a year on the o-line when they are in the last contract of their career.

Flo could potentially start for Dallas another 3 years if he's healthy however, tackles peak around 28-32 and decline gradually thereafter.

and i guess thats the rub. unfortunately LT make a ton of cash. However hell be past prime years at that point so maybe we can work out something with him like the Eagles did with Runyan.

 

[Hostile]

I think in the NFL once a player is past 30 by a couple of years you need to think about replacing that player. That doesn't mean do it, just be ready for it. Injuries are more likely. Free Agency is likely and with it a big contract. It's more of a business decision than anything else. New England and Philadelphia used this strategy the last few years when they lost an over 30 Free Agent it didn't hurt them. There is something to be said about younger and cheaper as you are building.

TO, Terry Glenn, Aaron Glenn, Flozell, Ellis, and Fergy are all players that you have to start thinking their time as contributors is limited and you have to think about what options you have behind them. By sheer virtue of the position he plays, LT, Flozell comes with a price tag if the market is paying and he is free. You also have to look at final years of a contract are likely to have an inflated amount making it financially possible to free up cap room.

Several factors could be playing into the thinking that Flozell's time and usefulness is limited. He could play several more years, but gambling on that is not wise.

 

[YoungBuck]

Underacheiver? hes gone to four straight probowls. If hes bad most of the other LT are worse. Now i realzie that the probowl is a bit of a popularity contest but at the same time hes got to at least be above average.

He's been to 3 of the past 4, and the last two were as an injury replacement. There's no way he played at a probowl level last year. Probowls are a terrible judge of how good a player really is in comparison to his peers.

He has been above average, but he has the talent/potential to be one of, if not the best in the league. This isn't anything new. Look up some of his scouting reports coming out of college. The reason he fell to the 2nd was because he never lived up to his talents.

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/2003/roster_nfc.html

 

[iceberg]

i've said flo was NOT an anchor to our line and he's not. but that said, he's better than your average OT and has had a pretty durn good career with us. all that said, i'm with hos. let's not take longshots on 7th rounders to replace him and let's get some quality and have a better chance at it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's been to 3 of the past 4, and the last two were as an injury replacement. There's no way he played at a probowl level last year. Probowls are a terrible judge of how good a player really is in comparison to his peers.

He has been above average, but he has the talent/potential to be one of, if not the best in the league. This isn't anything new. Look up some of his scouting reports coming out of college. The reason he fell to the 2nd was because he never lived up to his talents.

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/2003/roster_nfc.html

Above average play is above average play. Parcells has said that he could be Walter Jones caliber but hes just a tier below that.

That is still value. We won 3 superbowls with Tui out there.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think in the NFL once a player is past 30 by a couple of years you need to think about replacing that player. That doesn't mean do it, just be ready for it. Injuries are more likely. Free Agency is likely and with it a big contract. It's more of a business decision than anything else. New England and Philadelphia used this strategy the last few years when they lost an over 30 Free Agent it didn't hurt them. There is something to be said about younger and cheaper as you are building.

TO, Terry Glenn, Aaron Glenn, Flozell, Ellis, and Fergy are all players that you have to start thinking their time as contributors is limited and you have to think about what options you have behind them. By sheer virtue of the position he plays, LT, Flozell comes with a price tag if the market is paying and he is free. You also have to look at final years of a contract are likely to have an inflated amount making it financially possible to free up cap room.

Several factors could be playing into the thinking that Flozell's time and usefulness is limited. He could play several more years, but gambling on that is not wise.

I understand what youre saying and I agree that it would be folly to not invest some draft picks in the offensive line. OTOH i also believe very strongly in continuity in the line. I would really like to see Adams-Kosier-Gurode-Leonard-Columbo together for a few years and see what they can become.

That is one of the biggest problems that we have had with the oline the last few years. Outside of Flozell for the past 5 or 6 years, every spot on the line has been a revolving door since 1997. I think that hurts us quite a bit. i think its a very good thing that 4 out of 5 starters are returning from last year on the oline.

 

[Hostile]

I understand what youre saying and I agree that it would be folly to not invest some draft picks in the offensive line. OTOH i also believe very strongly in continuity in the line. I would really like to see Adams-Kosier-Gurode-Leonard-Columbo together for a few years and see what they can become.

That is one of the biggest problems that we have had with the oline the last few years. Outside of Flozell for the past 5 or 6 years, every spot on the line has been a revolving door since 1997. I think that hurts us quite a bit. i think its a very good thing that 4 out of 5 starters are returning from last year on the oline.

There's some merit to continuity and chemistry on the O-line. However, it isn't vital.

In 1992 our starting 5 on the O-line were as follows...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski
RG...Gesek
RT...Williams

In 1993 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski (13), Cornish (3)
RG...Gogan
RT...Williams

In 1994 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski
RG...Kennard
RT...Williams (7), Allen (9)

In 1995 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Donaldson (12), Kennard (4)
RG...Allen
RT...Williams


These 4 years constitute the best 4 year stretch this team has ever had and the apex of when the OL was the most dominant unit on the team. Yet every year there was change of one kind or another. I would love to have a starting 5 who stayed in place for more than 1 year, but that is so rare that it almost isn't possible.

Change isn't that scary if you have pieces in place to make the changes work. 1994 is a perfect example, Larry Allen didn't start until Big E got hurt. Then the next year he got his chance to start and Big E was back. The point is we had a viable option to go to when Big E got hurt. We have to have that again whether Flozell plays 1 more year or 6 more years in the same spot. We can't ever again need to turn to a Torrin Tucker to stop the bleeding.

 

[5Stars]

Change isn't that scary if you have pieces in place to make the changes work. 1994 is a perfect example, Larry Allen didn't start until Big E got hurt. Then the next year he got his chance to start and Big E was back. The point is we had a viable option to go to when Big E got hurt. We have to have that again whether Flozell plays 1 more year or 6 more years in the same spot. We can't ever again need to turn to a Torrin Tucker to stop the bleeding.

Parcells said, IIRC, that Tucker actually made Gurode a somewhat bad player because they were good friends and Tucker's bad habits influenced Gurode somewhat...

Remember that?

 

[CantonBound08]

That is still value. We won 3 superbowls with Tui out there.

I'm not real sure what point you are trying to make here, but I thought Tui was dang good. IMO he was greatly underrated.

 

[Angus]

He costs way too much for the performance you get. He'll always be an underachiever and Jerry needs to stop waiting for him to ever live up to his potential.

Let him go off in FA and get the big contract he wants and may get.

No. Why not try to develop his replacement and trade him this year while he still has trade value? Get something for him instead of hanging on too long to someone who will be too expensive to keep after next year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not real sure what point you are trying to make here, but I thought Tui was dang good. IMO he was greatly underrated.

my point was that Tui wasnt an allpro LT. He was as you said an above average player. i dont think its a good idea to get rid of above average players.

Adams is as good if not better than Tui.

 

[THUMPER]

This is the reason why my #1 draft axiom is: Always draft OL on Day-1, every year! You need to constantly bring in fresh talent on the O-Line. If you find that you have too many then you can trade someone but that will rarely be the case. You need at least 8 guys that can start and another guy for depth.

It doesn't matter how good your QB, RBs, WRs, or TEs are if the O-Line can't open holes or give the QB time to throw.

That's why if Jarrett is gone when we pick then I would take Blalock and never look back. If one of the top OTs falls that far then I would take him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's some merit to continuity and chemistry on the O-line. However, it isn't vital.

In 1992 our starting 5 on the O-line were as follows...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski
RG...Gesek
RT...Williams

In 1993 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski (13), Cornish (3)
RG...Gogan
RT...Williams

In 1994 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Stepnoski
RG...Kennard
RT...Williams (7), Allen (9)

In 1995 it was...

LT...Tuinei
LG...Newton
C...Donaldson (12), Kennard (4)
RG...Allen
RT...Williams


These 4 years constitute the best 4 year stretch this team has ever had and the apex of when the OL was the most dominant unit on the team. Yet every year there was change of one kind or another. I would love to have a starting 5 who stayed in place for more than 1 year, but that is so rare that it almost isn't possible.

Change isn't that scary if you have pieces in place to make the changes work. 1994 is a perfect example, Larry Allen didn't start until Big E got hurt. Then the next year he got his chance to start and Big E was back. The point is we had a viable option to go to when Big E got hurt. We have to have that again whether Flozell plays 1 more year or 6 more years in the same spot. We can't ever again need to turn to a Torrin Tucker to stop the bleeding.

But the main thing is that 3 of those postions remained exaclty the same and the center only was different for one year and RG for two. Thats tremendous continuity.

In the last 5 years weve seen

LT Adams and Tucker
LG Allen and Kosier
C Gurode, Johnson, LEhr and DiNappoli
RG Garmon, Gurode, Rivera and now Leonard
RT Page, Young, Vollers, Pettiti and Columbo

This is a trend that I would like to see changed and keeping the guys around that are still playing at a high level. The last 5 years have shown some of the worst OL play in our history.

 

[Hostile]

But the main thing is that 3 of those postions remained exaclty the same and the center only was different for one year and RG for two. Thats tremendous continuity.

In the last 5 years weve seen

LT Adams and Tucker
LG Allen and Kosier
C Gurode, Johnson, LEhr and DiNappoli
RG Garmon, Gurode, Rivera and now Leonard
RT Page, Young, Vollers, Pettiti and Columbo

This is a trend that I would like to see changed and keeping the guys around that are still playing at a high level. The last 5 years have shown some of the worst OL play in our history.

I understand, but there was still change every year.

2007 we're looking at...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Gurode
RG...Davis
RT...Columbo

2006 it was...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Gurode
RG...Rivera
RT...Columbo

2005 it was...

LT...Adams (6), Tucker (10)
LG...Allen
C...Johnson
RG...Rivera
RT...Pettiti

2004 it was...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Johnson
RG...Gurode
RT...Tucker (12), Vollers (3)


The same continuity you're talking about in those 4 years has been there the last 3 years and going into this year.

Change is about depth, youth, cap, and above all the future. Adams may be entrenched for several more years, but if we aren't prepared should he go down like 2005, or if he leaves via Free Agency or Cap Hit saving transaction then we will not have done due duty to keeping the direction of the team going forward.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I understand, but there was still change every year.

2007 we're looking at...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Gurode
RG...Davis
RT...Columbo

2006 it was...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Gurode
RG...Rivera
RT...Columbo

2005 it was...

LT...Adams (6), Tucker (10)
LG...Allen
C...Johnson
RG...Rivera
RT...Pettiti

2004 it was...

LT...Adams
LG...Kosier
C...Johnson
RG...Gurode
RT...Tucker (12), Vollers (3)


The same continuity you're talking about in those 4 years has been there the last 3 years and going into this year.

Change is about depth, youth, cap, and above all the future. Adams may be entrenched for several more years, but if we aren't prepared should he go down like 2005, or if he leaves via Free Agency or Cap Hit saving transaction then we will not have done due duty to keeping the direction of the team going forward.

You had the same players starting at 3 of the OL positions for all of the 1992-1995 seasons. Those 04-07 teams only had one consistent starter. That is night and day.

Like i said before Im not against drafting Olinemen by any means. You can draft them get them in the system and develop with the guys we already have. That doesnt impede continuity.

All Im saying is that next year we are going to have both of our starting tackles hitting FA and I hope we do everything that we can to kepp them.

 

[lewpac]

Did the Flozell era ever really begin? That's the question.......