Is there a big difference between Tyron Smith and Derek Sherrod?

[burmafrd]

Well stated and short and to the point. I agree with you on your offensive line analysis.

Davis was an average player last year, and the Cowboys have been getting diminishing returns since at least December 2008, when Davis first started showing major weaknesses in pass protection. It has been a slow, steady decline since then. Now, his run blocking, much better than Kosier's last year, is average and dropped off the table last year, when compared to 2009. Will it get better at age 33? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Colombo...We are on the same page for sure, and I was pounding that dump Colombo drum after that divisional debacle (Vikings). Why is he still here? ..Because the Cowboys organization dropped the ball in the 2009 draft...I hope they liked watching Loadholt block Ware and Spencer while Ray Edwards made Colombo look like a scrub. Colombo was never a good enough player to pass on a real good value like Loadholt. The Cowboys had his name on the card and opted to trade down.. Ouch...Hey, we got Jason Williams and Robert Brewster...Yippi...

Kosier didn't grade out overall as well as Davis last year according to Pro Football Focus. His run blocking was below average and rated poorly or in the red or negative. I would let him walk, or give him Holland's backup money. You are right, though. They will most likely resign him, and I don't like the thought of three interior players being 33 years old. That is old, and we are not talking about Larry Allen or Nate Newton here, either, in regards to Davis and Kosier.

I like Gurode more than others, but again, he's 33. I feel pretty good about him starting next year and would feel better if he had two new, young, strong, athletic guards playing next to him. His run blocking dropped off the table last year, too. Although, PFF rated him the 6th best run blocking center. He graded out (overall grade) above average and very comparable to his 2009 year according to them. He graded out very well in the screen game and in pass protection. However, I sure don't like the prospects of Phil Costa playing beside two old, average players like Davis and Kosier.

If his replacement falls into your lap, I take him in round 2. Center is really important position, and again, tough to find. If your center gets hurt, it can wreck your season, especially in Dallas. If you don't have one, you have major problems in your offensive line.

Wisniewski looks like a bull at 313, and he is a smart, young, technically sound player. He has good athletic ability for the position and fits the Gurode mold. Dallas will rate him high, I think. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. He has some upside in the NFL with adding that strength and size. Watkins may be the better NFL guard, but Wisniewski is going to be a really good NFL center.

The Cowboys passed on 5 starting offensive linemen in that 2009 draft, including Phil Loadholt. What a disaster. I sound like a broken record, but Phil Loadholt, Andy Levitre, Sabastian Vollmer, Antione Caldwell, and Luis Vasquez were passed up. Dorell Scott (DL form Clemson) went in round 4.

How in the world do you pick 12 players (7 on defense by the way) and end up with ZERO defensive linemen and 1 project, small school offensive linemen, who is now on the practice squad, after the entire league wouldn't claim him on waivers?

Then, I 'm supposed to just accept J.J. Watt or Cameron Jordan or a CB while a blue chip OT goes to Washington, Minnesota, or Detriot.

If the organization screws this draft up, it's going to get uglier than last year, imo. Again, I think they are 2 drafts away and not one player away. I'd fix the offensive line first, because Dallas has the weapons on offense (like the Colts) to win the Super Bowl, but they have an old offensive line that will land them in third place inside their own division. When a college team is rebuilding, the offensive line is the number one priority. The Jets were not perfect on defense last year, and their offensive line hid some weaknesses that they had on that defense. You can control the game with your offensive line. I still remember the Jets line wearing down the Vikings and running all over them. Dallas couldn't block the Vikings front in the running game on a good day, but they were able to do it in 2007, not even close now.

Dallas needs to be able to run (right or left or middle) or pass at will, so they can control the football and keep the defense off the field. You will never win a championship with that atrocious short yardage or goal line run blocking, alone.

That is why I'm dogged in wanted to address the offensive line. Value and need are going to collide on those early picks, and I don't want a inferior player like Gabe Carimi or Marcus Gilbert at RT and Kosier back at LG, so Dallas can draft another defensive player in the first round. That's not going to cut it, imo. The clock is ticking on Tony Romo, and Dallas is built to win now. It isn't 2006, anymore.

Tyron Smith won the Morris Trophy for the best offensive linemen in the PAC TEN. The defensive linemen vote on that award. He really does remind me of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, who was below 300 pounds at Virginia and considered a "finesse" player. Ferguson is a top 3 LT in the NFL, and he was the second best run blocking LT in the NFL according to Pro Football Focus.

The last OT to go in the 9-12 range was Ryan Clady, and he was named All Pro in his second year.



Also, I forgot the Oakland Raiders of the 1970s and early 1980s. They had three Hall of Famers on their offensive line. (Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, and Jim Otto).

Would the Cowboys trade down if Art Shell was on the board or pick a CB or 34 end? They might...LOL

The Commanders of the 1980s(-infant 1990s) won three Super Bowls and played in four. They had "The Hogs".

we passed on Veldheer as well- who is showing signs of becoming a TOP LT.
I disagree about where the team as a whole is right now. We are one VERY GOOD draft and one VERY GOOD FA period from contending for all of the marbles.

 

[supercowboy8]

Smith is the best pass blocker in this draft. He can play RT for the worst RT in the NFL last year.

Smith is in the 9-13 range right now.

If you trade back, you most likely will not get him.

You will get an inferior OT.

how can you say Smith is the best pass blocker in this draft. He played RT and went up against lesser players. YOu might be right but there is no way of knowing that.

I'm not going to say Smith is a better pass blocker over guys that has played against and has done a great job vs NCAA top pass rushers on the left side when Smith hasn't on the right side.

Smith is not a day on LT, may be in 3 years but not now. I'm not drafting a RT at 9. If we can't trade back and get him, then thats fine. I think Sherrod or Carimi and an extra pick or two is a greater value than Smith at 9.

 

[supercowboy8]

we passed on Veldheer as well- who is showing signs of becoming a TOP LT.
I disagree about where the team as a whole is right now. We are one VERY GOOD draft and one VERY GOOD FA period from contending for all of the marbles.

Yeah I was high on Veldheer last year. HE could have started at RT for us this year. He was a steal by Oakland.

 

[TheSport78]

we are already a contender so your initial premise is wrong. We NEED FS and OT upgrades. SHOULD get OG, ILB, DE. Depending on what the staff thinks of our backups. If we improve strongly at RT and FS there is no reason to think we cannot seriously contend next season.

Our 29th ranked defense begs to differ.

Smith is in a different class of athlete than Sherrod.
Olshansky is not that bad, do not be ridiculous.

Olshansky is bad. Smith may be more athletic, but who's the better football player?

 

[supercowboy8]

Our 29th ranked defense begs to differ.
quote]
you don't think that had something to do with Ball, the players giving up on Wade, or Paul P being the DC the last 8 games.

You don't think replacing Ball with a FA FS and Rob Ryan won't help.

Look at our D two years ago, you have pretty much the same team then add a better FS and Rob Ryan. I think the defense will be just fine.

 

[TheSport78]

Our 29th ranked defense begs to differ.
quote]
you don't think that had something to do with Ball, the players giving up on Wade, or Paul P being the DC the last 8 games.

You don't think replacing Ball with a FA FS and Rob Ryan won't help.

Look at our D two years ago, you have pretty much the same team then add a better FS and Rob Ryan. I think the defense will be just fine.

It could, but we haven't made any moves yet. Our defense suffered because of soft coaching and the players not executing. I blame Ball, Jenkins, and Spencer for the collapse last year.

 

[burmafrd]

Our D will be fine with Ryan running it and a COMPETENT FS. Olsky and The Rat and one other will get the job done good enough on the line.

 

[TheSport78]

Our D will be fine with Ryan running it and a COMPETENT FS. Olsky and The Rat and one other will get the job done good enough on the line.

Olshanskky needs to be upgraded big time. Watch the end of the first Eagles game, when Philly was trying to run out the clock. Olshansky was atrocious.

 

[IrishAnto]

how can you say Smith is the best pass blocker in this draft. He played RT and went up against lesser players. YOu might be right but there is no way of knowing that.

I'm not going to say Smith is a better pass blocker over guys that has played against and has done a great job vs NCAA top pass rushers on the left side when Smith hasn't on the right side.

Smith is not a day on LT, may be in 3 years but not now. I'm not drafting a RT at 9. If we can't trade back and get him, then thats fine. I think Sherrod or Carimi and an extra pick or two is a greater value than Smith at 9.

Would you call Cameron Jordan a lesser player? Many on these boards would beg to differ.

 

[IrishAnto]

Olshanskky needs to be upgraded big time. Watch the end of the first Eagles game, when Philly was trying to run out the clock. Olshansky was atrocious.

At the very least Olshansky can still physically play the game.
Can we say the same for Colombo?

 

[TheSport78]

At the very least Olshansky can still physically play the game.
Can we say the same for Colombo?

I wasn't cmparing the two but neither played can play the game at a high level IMO.

 

[IrishAnto]

I wasn't cmparing the two but neither played can play the game at a high level IMO.

The point I was trying to make is that Colombo just might not be able to take the field in any capacity this year, where as Olshansky can stll physically play the game.

Additionally given the depth at the position, you could probably draft a DL in the second round that would be a significant improvement over Olshansky. The drop off in talent between the first and second round at OT would be much greater.

 

[28 Joker]

we passed on Veldheer as well- who is showing signs of becoming a TOP LT.
I disagree about where the team as a whole is right now. We are one VERY GOOD draft and one VERY GOOD FA period from contending for all of the marbles.

I thought he was a 3rd round pick in 2010 and played as a rookie last year. That is another one.

That is cool. I just think the Cowboys are not going to be able to address the offensive and defensive line in this draft at one time and "fix" both areas and be strong enough in both areas to win the division. I would focus my resources into drafting the best players available on the offensive line, with those first two picks. The value will be there are 9 and 40.

They would be better suited to concentrate on one side of the football (offensive line) and make sure they really strengthen that side of the football. They can get a starting blue chip OT at 9 and probably get the number 1 center on many boards at 40. So, at least, you are really strong in one of those areas, instead of spreading yourself thinner in both areas, with lesser talent. If Free goes down, you have an answer....If Gurode goes down, your new LG slides comfortably into C. You score with your offense. Cornerstone players win championships. Tyron Smith is a cornerstone player like DeMarcus Ware was at 11. 6-10 is what it is. The team was 1-5 with Romo.

I think the Cowboys can contend next year if they nail this draft, but they have to nail this draft in the offensive line, imo. Free agency isn't going to save this offensive line, which needs at least 3 new immediate starters and will be lucky to see 1, imo. In fact, sinking $ 50 million dollars into one offensive line player (a guard) puts your franchise in jeopardy and mortgages your future. We have seen this with Leonard Davis.

However, picks 9 and 40 can nab 2 starters (in the OL) for 2011. Depth is another issue on both side of the lines. Pick 9 is crucial, and Dallas has to nail that pick. A blue chip OT gives you a cornerstone player in a huge area of weakness and puts all your offensive skill players in a better position to be successful.

It goes back to the debate between Smith and Sherrod. It is a quality vs quantity argument in the trade back to add picks scenerio. I say that you are better off taking the best OT in the draft (Tyron Smith), who has a superior skill set and superior athletic ability and superior physical talent and a superior physical build at the OT position and superior upside.

When you are in the top 10, you don't get cute and trade down and pick J.J. Watt or Cameron Jordan and bundle picks up to get back into round one and draft Carimi or Sherrod, which is going to be very costly to get back into the late teens to mid 20s, anyway.

IMO, you are spreading yourself thin by taking inferior players to Smith. I'd rather be really strong on one side of the football (offense) and at OT, than to add an inferior OT like Carimi, who isn't going to be a LT in the NFL due to the speed off the edge, imo. Plus, Carimi isn't a player who will excel in space at the OT position (run or pass) in the NFL, imo. Carimi was listed at 327 at Wisconsin, I think. Now, he was 314 at the combine. Is he going to lose power, because he is going to have big trouble with speed off the edge and redirecting. His calling care was power on the line of scrimmage in the running game. J.J. Watt is a second round talent, imo. Plus, Tyron Smith is a better football player than Cameron Jordan, straight up. Watt and Jordan are not cornerstone players.

When ever you have a chance to draft a cornerstone player, you don't trade down.

Some fans are enamored with trade downs and picking up inferior players in order to try to plug all the holes. (See the 2009 draft) I say pick the superior players (one by one) and be really strong in the offensive line.

Derreck Sherrod (number 2 on my list) has good athletic ability for the position, but his athletic ability or level of play isn't on Smith's level. Smith is a stronger, more physical player and has two years of RT experience, and he is a much better inline run blocker than people realize. However, it is Smith's second level run blocking that sets him apart in the running game. Plus, he is only 20 years old. Vela made a comment that if Smith were a four year senior and weighed 320, he would be a top 3 pick. I think 310 is plenty big enough. That is what Ferguson weighs.

Sherrod's strength will be best used as a starting LT in the NFL (in the long run), while Smith has the physical tools and skill set to be elite on either side, imso. Smith is the best pass blocker in this draft, and his youth and potential makes him worth the 9th pick at a premium position, especially when you only have a 27 year old serviceable pass blocker at LT, at best.

Another thing, Smith can do the pulling and trapping along the line that Davis struggles with and could take some pressure off Davis in pass protection and in the run game. Dallas' interior is old and in deep decline. Mark Colombo is done (do you think Valley Ranch gets it yet?), and Doug Free is a better run blocker than pass blocker at LT. Again, Free was barely above average in pass protection according to Pro Football Focus. However, the eye test tells you that Doug Free isn't not an elite NFL LT.

Long winded, again. Like I can control it. Oh, well. It's fun to debate.

The Cowboys are going no where fast with this current offensive line. It could use an elite, blue chip talent like the 20 year old Tyron Smith to be the cornerstone for the next 12 years.

Hudson Houck may not retire if he gets his hands on a couple of players like Smith and Wisniewski.

Stefan Wisniewski is going to be a better player than J.J. Watt, and you all can print that in big, black, bold letters.

 

[28 Joker]

Broaddus tweet:

BryanBroaddus The more I study DEs Cam Jordan and JJ Watt..the more that OT Tyron Smith becomes a better selection for the Cowboys at 9.


http://twitter.com/CowboysNation1

 

[Woods]

Broaddus tweet:

BryanBroaddus The more I study DEs Cam Jordan and JJ Watt..the more that OT Tyron Smith becomes a better selection for the Cowboys at 9.


http://twitter.com/CowboysNation1

Unless Darius or Fairley drop to 9 (and I don't see Peterson dropping), I would also take Smith at 9.

As for pick 40, I'm not 100% sure yet. I'd expect someone to drop to us. Maybe Ironhead's son. If not for his injury, he would probably be a clear Round 1 pick, imo.

 

[AKATheRake]

I rather trade next years 1st for a late first in this years draft and grab Carimi or Sherrod than draft a tackle with the 9th pick or trade out of it to get 1.

not work in my book

say Romo goes down the 2nd game

out for the season we go 1 - 15

so you traded away our chance at Luck

who is the most NFL ready QB I seen in years - since Troy - IMO

If Romo go's down we're an 9-7, 8-8 or 7-9 team as we saw this year with Kitna as backup and Garrett as HC.

We have no shot at Luck or a top 10 pick next year with this team. Even if Romo gets hurt for the season. We almost slipped out of the top 10 if it wasn't for other teams helping us.

You also don't predicate your draft predicting your starting QB gets hurt. You have contingencies but you don't predicate your draft or offseason on things like that.

This is the NFL, not Jo Jo the psychic network.

 

[AKATheRake]

Patrick Peterson
Marcell Dareus
Nick Fairley
DaQuan Bowers
Von Miller
Robert Quinn

Offense:

AJ Green
Julio Jones
Mark Ingram

out of that list the only two guys I would take at 9

are Dareous an Petersen

That's interesting because 5 or 6 of those guys listed are probably going to go top 10.

The guys not in that list are 1 or 2 QB's who have a shot at going top 10 and who else? Tyron Smith?

Tell me who you would take with the 9th pick in this draft?

You're a funny guy.

1 post you say trading next year's highly probable first round being a late one destroys are chances at getting Luck.

The next post you say the only guy out of a list that should have about 5-6 top 10 players you would only pick Peterson or Dareus. Both those guys are possible first overall picks.

So going by your way of thinking a late 1st round pick can be a shot at getting Andrew luck who likely will be the 1st overall pick if all remains consistent. As well, the 9th pick is only worthy for probably the 2 surest prospects in this draft who are regarded as top 5 picks surely.

Yeah, you're realistic. Living in an ideal world are we? I'm glad for you if you are. Highly unlikely though.

 

[UnoDallas]

yea but I don't see Dallas giving away next years first rounder

oh I see so you expect Kitna to get us to to 8-8 what was his record at Det

06 - 3-13
07- 7-9
08 - 0-4

so your counting on Kitna winning 8 games

hes only won 8 games twice

I rather trade next years 1st for a late first in this years draft and grab Carimi or Sherrod than draft a tackle with the 9th pick or trade out of it to get 1.


Yeah, you're realistic. Living in an ideal world are we? I'm glad for you if you are. Highly unlikely though

This is the NFL, not Jo Jo the psychic network

all of us know that do you ?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

[/B]

i really liked troy think he is a bit underated when people look back on his career i wont get into that because you obviusley like him as well, But dude this is a total homer statement unless you never heard of peyton manning.

Sam Bradford looked pretty darned pro ready last year with an awful supporting cast. And Matt Ryan as well.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

this from Wes Bunting

I really like Derek Sherrod. He's the one guy who's kind of fallen under the radar the whole time but if you watch this guy... The one knock on him is that he plays a bit high. That's obvious when you watch on tape. But he does the the ability to bend, to sit into his stance consistently. He's just so talented he can get sloppy with his technique at times.

But when you're talking about a guy who can reach the edge versus speed, who can re-direct with balance, who can stick through blocks and who can get a pop in the run game, he's the full package. I think I have him as the 2nd best OT on my board right now. I think Tyron Smith has the best grade and Sherrod and Carimi have the same grade after him.

I think you can win with Derek Sherrod as a starting left tackle in the NFL

I agree with Bunting....it's just how long can you wait before getting him? I don't want us to do like we did a couple years back with Unger.