Is Witten the reason Fasano, Bennett and (Maybe) Escobar flamed out?

[CoCo]

We're all operating from memory here. But I thought I recalled Witten expressing frustration over Bennett being unresponsive to Witten's attempts to help him when he was here. But who knows.

But I think the OP also referred to Witten being concerned about his own numbers and HOF candidacy. Since when does a player have any influence on the balls thrown his way other than to get himself open and then prove yourself reliable when the ball does come your way?

 

[KJJ]

Speaking of outstanding catches, remember the time he cost us a TD in that 2007 playoff loss to the Giants when Romo put the ball right on the money and it clanked off Fasano's facemask.

Don't remember that the one that Romo put right on the money that clanked off Crayton's hands is the one I remember.

 

[Hoofbite]

Doubtful.

The team just doesn't use 2 TEs in a manner that would allow the #2 to be more than what they have been.

Bennett only saw the field for half the teams snaps, and he was blocking on 60% of those plays. He ran 10 routes per game so it's not surprising he didn't ever produce in Dallas.

 

[mahoneybill]

Fasano still isn't a very good tight end. The story isn't over for Escobar. Dallas got good use out of Bennett. I never understood why some people expected Bennett to get 60 receptions a season as the second tight end in Dallas.

Also read that Bennett accepted less money to go to Giants so he obviously just wanted out

 

[DallasDomination]

I don't think that was Wittens fault. The system/Romo kept going to Witten and Bennett never developed. I won't mention Fasano he never had a chance here.

I remember times I would wonder why they wouldn't use Bennett more..it's all water under the bridge now.

 

[slomoxn]

I'm in with the wasted 2nd round picks on a tight end crowd; heck if we can start training Witten's replacement why haven't they tried wasting a 2nd round pick on Romo's successor? That would mKe more sense, we know he will ride the pine for a few years which is good considering they'll learn the offense inside and out during that time frame. Best part would be they would be brought in the old way. Would be just as useful or useless as wasting those picks on consecutive tight ends that never get utilized.

 

[links18]

Bennett was a really bad pick. We don't know what we have in Escobar just yet.

 

[kazzd58]

If i was a TE drafted to Dallas I would be frustrated..I still dont think we are using Hanna right or taking advantage of his atheltic ability his hands are better in the pros and 4.4 speed.. You mean to tell me on 3rd and 1 or 2 you cant go jumbo with hanna in there and do a play action to Hanna or Escobar. I also wish Tony would throw more seem routes to Escobar and Hanna when he gets a chance to run routes, because when the ball gets away from Tony and the TE has to make a play i think Escabor and Hanna would have a better chance of tracking the ball down and catching it instead of seeing Witten throw a hand up hoping it hit his hand while hes running as hard as he can so he can catch the ball... Moral of the story is i think Hanna and Escobar can make the majority of those type plays at the TE position than Witten imo...

 

[darthseinfeld]

First things first, this isn't a "Hate on Witten" thread, I just found the topic interesting.

Earlier this week, on The Break, they were talking a bit about Bennett and that led to an interesting anecdote about how when Bennett was on the team, Witten had made sure that he got his touches - even at Bennett's expense. They mentioned how Witten (at least at the time) was very much thinking about getting into the HOF someday, so he cared about his numbers.

Anyway, it was an interesting comment because I'd never really thought of Witten as a a numbers guy but it's always been clear to me that you can't be as good as Witten is; as good as Dez is; as good as Romo is - without caring about your numbers.

All this is to say; it reminded me of how Witten pretty much gave Bennett the cold shoulder the entire time he was here. Witten was still as productive as ever, and eventually that led to Bennett being "The blocking TE".

I'm just thinking of all the TE's that have been through here, and I don't remember a single story about how Witten was mentoring any of these guys or taking them under his wing. He's got no interest in training his replacement, which makes a lot of sense - he doesn't want to be expendable or replaceable. He's not the only one, it's well known Peyton hates letting his backups take snaps in practice or in the games.

So, could it be possible that Witten is part of what's kept this whole 2-TE thing from taking off? We all know how respected he is. It's possible he's never the guy in the film room/huddle saying, "Look, Fasano/Bennett/Escobar is wide open on this play, why not go there?".

Witten and Escobar were workout buddies this past offseason

 

[khiladi]

The reason we can't employ the 2 TE offense, is because the guy in charge of the offense at the time they drafted Escobar simply can't do it. And now they have pretty much gone to a run-oriented offense and when passing, targetting Dez primarily. Jerry Jones said it specifically, that Linehan will target Dez like he did Calvin Johnson and run the ball as well.

 

[khiladi]

Doubtful.

The team just doesn't use 2 TEs in a manner that would allow the #2 to be more than what they have been.

Bennett only saw the field for half the teams snaps, and he was blocking on 60% of those plays. He ran 10 routes per game so it's not surprising he didn't ever produce in Dallas.

Exactly... They weren't using him for that. The notion of a 2 TE passing system came about during the year NE was throwing to GRONK and Hernandez. When they drafted Escobar. Jerry then made comments about NE and utilizing Escobar with Witten in a 2 TE passing game. It is clear it was just a flavor of the month-type deal, and now they hired Linehan who is running the ball.

 

[CATCH17]

Garrett is the reason.


They wanted to use a 2 TE system but they just didn't know how to truly implement it.


Escobar looks like a stud receiver btw.. I just hope he doesn't go on and have a nice career somewhere else.

 

[TimHortons]

Didn't Bennett have a fair number of dropped passes at key moments? He may have gotten more opportunities on teams without a Jason Witten, but I don't know that he shone all that much when he did get opportunities in Dallas.

I always remember that pass to Bennet that bounced off his face and turned into an interception. Bounced right off his helmet. Pretty sure it was on just a quick out from the slot

 

[Future]

The issue is not Witten himself. It's the fact that the coaches, and I think Tony as well, refuse to go elsewhere with the ball.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

My stance has always been; Don't spend the pick if you aren't going to utilize the talent. I've got nothing against the TE's we drafted as players, I have a beef with the fact that we kept spending those high picks and they just weren't getting the reps.

This is how I feel. The picks could have been used in areas where there could have been more impact. TEs could have taken in later rounds that could have been developed but would have served their purpose as Witten's backup at the same time.

It is irrelevant now but Witten is no longer at the top of his game. Escobar has a better future (as a Cowboy) than Bennett and Fasano ever did.

 

[Hoofbite]

Exactly... They weren't using him for that. The notion of a 2 TE passing system came about during the year NE was throwing to GRONK and Hernandez. When they drafted Escobar. Jerry then made comments about NE and utilizing Escobar with Witten in a 2 TE passing game. It is clear it was just a flavor of the month-type deal, and now they hired Linehan who is running the ball.

To be fair, they were drafting the #2 TE long before Gronk and Hernandez.

I doubt Bill had any plans at all to have anything more than a versatile blocking pair. Fasano would have gotten that job done had Bill stayed around, but ever since Garrett became the OC they've clearly been looking for more pass catching ability.

The bottom line is that the team doesn't use the #2 enough to be worth what they have invested, and Witten doesn't prevent any of the WRs from getting their touches so I don't know why he would prevent another TE from doing so.

 

[btcutter]

Can you name the backups to Tony Gonzalez and Antonio gates?

Did their respective teams spent multiple 2nd rounders on TEs with them on the team though?

Bennett is immensely athletic but was a kid who wasn't mature enough. Sure he is successful in Chicago but that's his THIRD NFL team. How many stars move to multiple teams within first 7 yrs of their careers unless there's something wrong with them or injuries?

Good for Bennett if he is now matured and able to take advantage of his talents. There are too many players who wasted their athletic careers because they never understool what it took to be a PRO.

 

[jrumann59]

I think every time a TE was drafted it was for the eventual replacement of Witten, the problem is he is still ambulatory and still here. I think Witten will be around 1 year too long and Escobar will end up somewhere.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

First things first, this isn't a "Hate on Witten" thread, I just found the topic interesting.

Earlier this week, on The Break, they were talking a bit about Bennett and that led to an interesting anecdote about how when Bennett was on the team, Witten had made sure that he got his touches - even at Bennett's expense. They mentioned how Witten (at least at the time) was very much thinking about getting into the HOF someday, so he cared about his numbers.

Anyway, it was an interesting comment because I'd never really thought of Witten as a a numbers guy but it's always been clear to me that you can't be as good as Witten is; as good as Dez is; as good as Romo is - without caring about your numbers.

All this is to say; it reminded me of how Witten pretty much gave Bennett the cold shoulder the entire time he was here. Witten was still as productive as ever, and eventually that led to Bennett being "The blocking TE".

I'm just thinking of all the TE's that have been through here, and I don't remember a single story about how Witten was mentoring any of these guys or taking them under his wing. He's got no interest in training his replacement, which makes a lot of sense - he doesn't want to be expendable or replaceable. He's not the only one, it's well known Peyton hates letting his backups take snaps in practice or in the games.

So, could it be possible that Witten is part of what's kept this whole 2-TE thing from taking off? We all know how respected he is. It's possible he's never the guy in the film room/huddle saying, "Look, Fasano/Bennett/Escobar is wide open on this play, why not go there?".

bennet was very immature when he was here. in case you forgot, he went to the TE needy giants and flamed out. plus personalities matter on a team. Bennett may fit with the loonies up in Chicago, but wasn't the RKG to stay in dallas. plus Witten outside of this year has been one of the best TEs in the NFL and a HOF candidate. so how do you want to spread the ball around? do you want to take one of the best NFL TEs out to allow Bennett to learn?

plus, take a look at Chicago. they got a bunch of former cowboys on their team and they have steadily declined. coincidence? probably not. so I venture to say good riddance to Bennett, Rat and the rest of the yahoos in Chicago.

fasano was average. is average and there is probably 20+ TEs that are better than him. and fasano is on his third (or fourth?) team as well.

I have hopes for escobar. he does make plays. I am very impressed with his athlecism for TE his size. he moves pretty well. he needs to get a little stronger and I think we are going to see more and more of him in the future, perhaps for him to be the feature TRE next year (if Jerry is willing to deal with the fact that one of his favorite guys needs to come off the bench).

I also think this year with the running game being more of the feature, the TE is less emphasized. Witten only has 46 catches which is way below his average. but we also see a lot of double TE formations in the running game.

 

[Primetime42]

Don't remember that the one that Romo put right on the money that clanked off Crayton's hands is the one I remember.

Fasano one was on the goal line, I believe.