ITS: Cowboys' Offseason Moves Heavily Influenced by Assistant Coaches

[fivetwos]

I wouldn't say assistant coaches (at least the coordinators) having a voice in the War Room during the draft is a big issue.

The problem is when a coordinator goes to bat for a player and then almost immediately putting that same player in the doghouse because he wasn't what the coordinator envisioned.

If a coordinator is so adamant about drafting a player, they better have all the information available and be willing to do everything in their power to get said player to succeed. It does not mean the player will succeed, but some previous coordinators sure seemed to give up on "their guys" very, very quickly.

JMHO

Coaches coach, and scouts scout for a reason.

If a new coordinator likes players already in the league for that type of transition, all good.

The transition from college to pro, from no money to rich, etc....is too big a jump to leave to positional coaches.

 

[CowboyRoy]

This is the EXACT problem with the Cowboys and has been for years. They have NO concrete direction. They have NO set plan on rebuilding. They simply bring in different coordinators that have their own ideas of what they want to take their advice. Then a couple years later, the next guy has other ideas. Its like a constant ideology rebuild and direction every few years.

 

[SackMaster]

Coaches coach, and scouts scout for a reason.

If a new coordinator likes players already in the league for that type of transition, all good.

The transition from college to pro, from no money to rich, etc....is too big a jump to leave to positional coaches.

If scouts were so great at scouting, why is it nearly half of first round picks fail to live up to their draft status every year?

I get what you are saying, but the fact remains, scouts, coaches, GMs, fans, ect... miss on prospects all the time. What I hate is when those who fight for a specific player gives up on the kid before putting in the work to try to make SOMETHING out of them.

Missing on prospects are going to happen regardless who makes the call. Allowing everyone who will work with said kid to have their opinion heard is more important than just listening to just one person's opinion.

 

[fivetwos]

Because we don't have a real GM or Director of Personnel.

Got that one right.

Jerry figures this is something he can piece together with the look that its all him so he can stand on that podium with the confetti falling and hold up that trophy all by myself....

This is about nothing else.

How the local media with reasonable job security doesn't call him out on this is beyond me.

 

[fivetwos]

If scouts were so great at scouting, why is it nearly half of first round picks fail to live up to their draft status every year?

I get what you are saying, but the fact remains, scouts, coaches, GMs, fans, ect... miss on prospects all the time. What I hate is when those who fight for a specific player gives up on the kid before putting in the work to try to make SOMETHING out of them.

Missing on prospects are going to happen regardless who makes the call. Allowing everyone who will work with said kid to have their opinion heard is more important than just listening to just one person's opinion.

If a scout has a 50% accuracy rate, I'd expect a non scout to be much less.

If I had a heart issue I'd go to the worst heart doctor in the world before I went to the very best foot specialst.

 

[Doomsday101]

Coaches coach, and scouts scout for a reason.

If a new coordinator likes players already in the league for that type of transition, all good.

The transition from college to pro, from no money to rich, etc....is too big a jump to leave to positional coaches.

I agree and often it is the scouts working closely with the coaches to find players who they feel can work within a system the coaches are putting in place. Clearly the coaches do not have the time to run around the nation looking at all the prospect and that is the role of the scouts and yet coaches still want to sit down with the prospect and talk with them and get a feel for the character of that player. So much of putting teams together is a group effort not one man show.

 

[Doomsday101]

If a scout has a 50% accuracy rate, I'd expect a non scout to be much less.

If I had a heart issue I'd go to the worst heart doctor in the world before I went to the very best foot specialst.

True but a head of scouting better hit more than 50% when talking 1st 3 picks in a draft. Most of us do not expect to hit on every player especially those late in the draft but those top 3 picks you got to hit on them at more than 50%

 

[CowboyRoy]

If scouts were so great at scouting, why is it nearly half of first round picks fail to live up to their draft status every year?

I get what you are saying, but the fact remains, scouts, coaches, GMs, fans, ect... miss on prospects all the time. What I hate is when those who fight for a specific player gives up on the kid before putting in the work to try to make SOMETHING out of them.

Missing on prospects are going to happen regardless who makes the call. Allowing everyone who will work with said kid to have their opinion heard is more important than just listening to just one person's opinion.

On defense, the answer is simple. Because Marinelli kept telling them what kind of people he wanted for his defense or didnt want.

Hence Taco over Watt, Hill over Rapp...ect....ect... And then you have bozo's like Garrett telling Jerry to take Zeke over Ramsey.

 

[Typhus]

If they can get Surtain & Moehrig in the first two rounds, they have the making of a dynamic secondary. Boom!

Thats a definite rapid response, finally getting some attention.
Everyone may not agree with the players, but Im just exuberant that a glaring issue has finally been recognized.

 

[plasticman]

Cowboy assistant coaches:

Guys who were fired from their previous jobs for poor results. These are the guys that the franchise is listening to?

I mean, how effective are coaches that weren't currently employed? Of course some of them are moving up from their previous position but most were either fired after the season or did not participate.

 

[Doomsday101]

Cowboy assistant coaches:

Guys who were fired from their previous jobs for poor results. These are the guys that the franchise is listening to?

I mean, how effective are coaches that weren't currently employed? Of course some of them are moving up from their previous position but most were either fired after the season or did not participate.

Most coaches who got fired were fired because of the job they failed to do. This includes Arians, Belicheck, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid and can name a few more if you like.

 

[plasticman]

Jerry doesn’t actually do day to day GM duties. That’s Stephen

Actually, that's nobody.

You have a half a dozen guys running around doing SOME of the GM duties, a mish mosh of philosophies, evaluation styles, agendas, perceptions, and accountability.

Without a singular, well defined plan on what kind of team to build, how to build it, and how to implement it, Jerry is the final word on a collaboration of chaos.

 

[fivetwos]

True but a head of scouting better hit more than 50% when talking 1st 3 picks in a draft. Most of us do not expect to hit on every player especially those late in the draft but those top 3 picks you got to hit on them at more than 50%

Threw the number out there, but I hear ya.

Maybe check this out.....

I did some numbers this time last year to support what I had already suspected.

I threw out the previous three drafts and used the prior 10, accounting for it may take time to achieve the criteria for success.

The criteria for a "hit" was a player making at least one pro bowl (which I know is garbage, but what else to use? And it generally means a non bust).

I threw out guys that made it for ST or FB, but I kept all alternates.

I divided the first round in half.

The numbers were almost perfect to a 50/50 hit/bust rate for picks 1-16.

Down to 25% for 17-32.

10% for the second, 6 for the third.

Then down proportionate from there.

What this does not account for is useful players on a team but haven't made a pro bowl, or players that may in the future but haven't yet.

High picks that don't as much as achieve that, considering it's much easier to now do, are busts for their drafting team in a certain regard.

Fans tend to truly value something like a third round pick, but the reality is you have an unknown with a 6% chance of making one single pro bowl, and around 2% thereafter.

Point being if youre still awake lol....the hit rate for scouts is much lower than we may have thought.

Parcells once said he was living right if he hit on half of all picks, which I thought was a cop out, but its simply a tough racket.

 

[Doomsday101]

Threw the number out there, but I hear ya.

Maybe check this out.....

I did some numbers this time last year to support what I had already suspected.

I threw out the previous three drafts and used the prior 10, accounting for it may take time to achieve the criteria for success.

The criteria for a "hit" was a player making at least one pro bowl (which I know is garbage, but what else to use? And it generally means a non bust).

I threw out guys that made it for ST or FB, but I kept all alternates.

I divided the first round in half.

The numbers were almost perfect to a 50/50 hit/bust rate for picks 1-16.

Down to 25% for 17-32.

10% for the second, 6 for the third.

Then down proportionate from there.

What this does not account for is useful players on a team but haven't made a pro bowl, or players that may in the future but haven't yet.

High picks that don't as much as achieve that, considering it's much easier to now do, are busts for their drafting team in a certain regard.

Fans tend to truly value something like a third round pick, but the reality is you have an unknown with a 6% chance of making one single pro bowl, and around 2% thereafter.

Point being if youre still awake lol....the hit rate for scouts is much lower than we may have thought.

Parcells once said he was living right if he hit on half of all picks, which I thought was a cop out, but its simply a tough racket.

Using your criteria I see how you come up with that number. Mine a little more simplistic, I need my 1st 3 picks to be quality starters beyond that is a bonus. If my 4th through 7 I can get 2 or 3 contributors out of that group maybe a starting quality players then great.

 

[plasticman]

Most coaches who got fired were fired because of the job they failed to do. This includes Arians, Belicheck, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid and can name a few more if you like.

Don't forget Shula, Callaghan, and Vermeil.

And for every one of those names I can add an additional 100 that didn't make a Super Bowl turnaround. Poor odds.

 

[TheDude]

So much (again) that Jerry meddles and makes all the player moves.

If it works he will not get credit, it was the coaches.
If it does not work, Jerry gets blamed.

Just like he let Garrett vouch for Brad JOhnson and cost the 08 season and Rob Ryan trading up for Claiborne and getting Carr, etc, etc. The buck stops at the top always

Most teams dont blow draft capital on players that no personell person even bothered to interview....but Ryans fault I guess

 

[Doomsday101]

Don't forget Shula, Callaghan, and Vermeil.

And for every one of those names I can add an additional 100 that didn't make a Super Bowl turnaround. Poor odds.

Point is why would I listen to these coaches? Because these are the men running the team. We have McCarthy SB winning coach, Quinn brought Atlanta to the SB. These are not slobs as many love to claim, they have done good things in this league and yet a bunch of message board poster who have done nothing belittles what they have done? lol Before anyone says McCarthy had Rodgers? Name a HC who won SB or got to SB with bad QB's?

 

[Rockport]

So much (again) that Jerry meddles and makes all the player moves.

If it works he will not get credit, it was the coaches.
If it does not work, Jerry gets blamed.

Either good are bad he will get the credit. Or at least he should.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Because we don't have a real GM or Director of Personnel.

But you got your:
Chief Operating Officer / Executive Vice President and you will LOVE IT!

 

[Rockport]

This is the EXACT problem with the Cowboys and has been for years. They have NO concrete direction. They have NO set plan on rebuilding. They simply bring in different coordinators that have their own ideas of what they want to take their advice. Then a couple years later, the next guy has other ideas. Its like a constant ideology rebuild and direction every few years.

Stephen's ideology is to never have to rebuild. But whatever their ideology has been it hasn't been working as of yet. Remember, this just started a few years ago.