Its not about Dez, Austin, Choice or Felix, its all about

[superpunk]

There is obviously only one way to skin a cat.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

it's more than lineman or any other players--it's also schemes--last year we outcoached a few teams (especially Philly) but this year under Bum Jr. we were very predictable and outschemed almost every week

I don't think we really out coached them. our OL dominated them in the last 2 games. the RBs were 6 yards in the defensive back field before they had to dodge a defender. once we got our running game going, the passing game was just a gimme.

on the defensive side for what ever reason last year's blitzes and pressure packages worked. this year we just didn't execute.

I don't think its really the schemes since we have had the same offensive and defensive scheme.

its the decline in the OL play, its the bad practice habits. one has changed.

the other hasn't.

 

[WV Cowboy]

No offense to anyone, .. but honestly, anyone that did not know that the O-line are the most important players on the field must not have been watching football very long.

A quality O-line can make average QB's and average RB's look very good.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I guess I'm probably in the minority because I agree that strength on both sides of the line win championships. To win in the NFL, I believe you must have a great QB and a great OL and DL. I can't think of one team that has not had a great OL and DL and won the Super Bowl. Maybe the 2002/2003 Bucs. They didn't have a very good OL IMO but they had an exceptional DL. That's really the only one I can think of.

You might say the 2000 Ravens but I would say that there OL was at least good. Not many stars but they blocked very well in the running game and they really didn't throw the ball much so I don't know. They were good at what they were asked to do.

 

[tomson75]

they have Wes Welker and deion branch...woo hoo....its tom brady and the OL that makes it work. put branch here (as he was in Seattle) and he is average at best. its Tom Brady that makes them look great.

and to your point. who is choice? choice, felix and barber are so over rated by the cowboys fans.

but the point is I would trade austin or dez for two top OL men any day of the week. you don't need to be three deep at WR or RB to be a good team.

we have spent a lot of money, high draft picks on WRs and RBs. the result hasn't been exactly anything to write home about.

if we would have spent the same on OL men, we would be 8-4 instead of 4-8

I understand what you're saying, but I think you missed what I was trying to convey...my fault, I was rushing and not being clear....

My point was that I don't think we have as much "flash" or what have you on this team as it seems to us....I doubt the majority of other team's fans think we're as talented or flashy as we do. Fans are obviously more familiar with their favorite teams' players...and its natural for them to overrate them. Our fan's are no different. I'd be willing to bet that right about now there is a good percentage of Pats fans that would put Branch up there in the top 10 wideout discussion. Welker, to them, is almost untouchable.....whereas our perceived "flash" at WR is no more than an occasional highlight on ESPN. I doubt many of them would mention Dez, Williams, Choice, Felix, and for that matter Romo....on any top 10 discussion. They simply aren't as familiar with what we really have. It isn't until the hype becomes full bore that other team's fans are forced to either look at things as they are, or hate....I see this as a product of the media's infatuation with us, far moreso than a product of what we really have on the field. Sometimes what we have is better than perceived...sometimes worse.

...and outside of the Dez pick (which should obviously be considered an amazing value IMO) and the Felix pick (debatable), we really haven't put too much emphasis on RB or WR. The only real "mistakes" I can see here are signing Roy Williams and extending Barber.....I don't defend those moves, but they certainly aren't mistakes that other franchises don't duplicate from time to time.

As far as putting more emphasis on the OL...I couldn't agree more....but not at cost of sacrificing our special players, of which I would include Romo, Witten, Bryant, Ware, and (marginally) Austin. I wouldn't include any of our RB's in that group, as they are far too easy to find replacements for to be considered "essential" IMO. There are few, if any, RB's in this league right now that I would consider untouchable.

I also don't think that we have necessarily been NOT emphasizing the OL....I just think we've drafted according to value mores than need. I would, however, have liked us to be more aggressive in free agency with Linemen....even being fearful of a Marco Rivera result. That being said, I would be surprised if we didn't go heavy on offensive and defensive line in this years draft.

Have we done enough? Obviously not, or we would have won the Lombardi recently. Does it seem obvious what we've done wrong? It usually is, after the fact. Are we learning? Remains to be seen, but we can all hope.

 

[percyhoward]

Have we done enough? Obviously not, or we would have won the Lombardi recently. Does it seem obvious what we've done wrong? It usually is, after the fact.

Well, we did know before the fact (going into the draft) that we had the oldest starting OL in the league. We knew three years ago that we had one of the oldest, but nobody drafted fewer OL in the last three years than we did.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you missed what I was trying to convey...my fault, I was rushing and not being clear....

My point was that I don't think we have as much "flash" or what have you on this team as it seems to us....I doubt the majority of other team's fans think we're as talented or flashy as we do. Fans are obviously more familiar with their favorite teams' players...and its natural for them to overrate them. Our fan's are no different. I'd be willing to bet that right about now there is a good percentage of Pats fans that would put Branch up there in the top 10 wideout discussion. Welker, to them, is almost untouchable.....whereas our perceived "flash" at WR is no more than an occasional highlight on ESPN. I doubt many of them would mention Dez, Williams, Choice, Felix, and for that matter Romo....on any top 10 discussion. They simply aren't as familiar with what we really have. It isn't until the hype becomes full bore that other team's fans are forced to either look at things as they are, or hate....I see this as a product of the media's infatuation with us, far moreso than a product of what we really have on the field. Sometimes what we have is better than perceived...sometimes worse.

...and outside of the Dez pick (which should obviously be considered an amazing value IMO) and the Felix pick (debatable), we really haven't put too much emphasis on RB or WR. The only real "mistakes" I can see here are signing Roy Williams and extending Barber.....I don't defend those moves, but they certainly aren't mistakes that other franchises don't duplicate from time to time.

As far as putting more emphasis on the OL...I couldn't agree more....but not at cost of sacrificing our special players, of which I would include Romo, Witten, Bryant, Ware, and (marginally) Austin. I wouldn't include any of our RB's in that group, as they are far too easy to find replacements for to be considered "essential" IMO. There are few, if any, RB's in this league right now that I would consider untouchable.

I also don't think that we have necessarily been NOT emphasizing the OL....I just think we've drafted according to value mores than need. I would, however, have liked us to be more aggressive in free agency with Linemen....even being fearful of a Marco Rivera result. That being said, I would be surprised if we didn't go heavy on offensive and defensive line in this years draft.

Have we done enough? Obviously not, or we would have won the Lombardi recently. Does it seem obvious what we've done wrong? It usually is, after the fact. Are we learning? Remains to be seen, but we can all hope.

I respectfully disagree. Austin is well known and took the league by storm last year and went to the probowl. ROmo is well known but ofcourse the patriots have brady so they don't care. Dez bryant was well known as well coming out, being he was a top 10 talent.

and you are soley focusing on NE. I also mentioned SD, Indy, Ravens, etc.

now, we have spent three first round and one third round pick on WR and RBs. dez, RW, Felix. that's 4 high picks. two of which could have been spent on OL men (i.e. the Felix pick).

that's a lot of high picks put into glamour positions. we infact had signed barber to be a starting back on the team when we drafted Felix.


and I don't agree building through FA.. it often doesn't work. you complement and fill holes that you missed on draft picks with FAs. you fill back up roles, probably with older FAs that can step in and play. you sign high impact to fill a couple of key positions. but we can't fill the entire line or defense, etc. with FAs. we already have three and its not working out.

part of it is that we have missed on OL men in the draft. part of it is that we don't spend many top round picks on OL. outside of Al Johnson and Marten we haven't spent a top 2 pick on any OL in the past 6 years. and the OL is your bread and butter.

and I agree, outside of romo and ware that on this team are untouchable. I would actually trade any of the other ones.

dez included, since AZ, Texas, Minn all of have top notch and I mean top notch WRs and have nothing to show for it.

and I agree. RBs are too easy to find in middle rounds to spend a first round pick on a RB he better be 100% sure he is the next coming of LT. and even then I think we can do with a lesser RB than an LT type RB.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Its not hard to recognize that solid O line play is essential. But to say we should trade Austin or DestinationEZ for O linemen is kinda ridiculous. Those two are obviously our WR corps future and will probably give defenses nightmares. Jerry and past company have been believers in O-line can be found late in drafts. They have hit on a few before, but not enough. There needs to be a shift in mentality next draft and take a high profile lineman if possible. We'll have to see where our pick ends up being. I would draft a center but that's JMO.

 

[tomson75]

I respectfully disagree. Austin is well known and took the league by storm last year and went to the probowl. ROmo is well known but ofcourse the patriots have brady so they don't care. Dez bryant was well known as well coming out, being he was a top 10 talent.

I wasn't saying Austin and Romo aren't well known...I was suggesting that, outside our fan base, guys like Felix and Dez are (at this point) not "flashy" to fans of other teams.

and you are soley focusing on NE. I also mentioned SD, Indy, Ravens, etc.

Solely to illustrate my point, which apparently, I've done a poor job of.

now, we have spent three first round and one third round pick on WR and RBs. dez, RW, Felix. that's 4 high picks. two of which could have been spent on OL men (i.e. the Felix pick).

that's a lot of high picks put into glamour positions. we infact had signed barber to be a starting back on the team when we drafted Felix.

...which further illustrates my point that I believe this team has stuck to their draft board pretty strictly during recent drafts. They have gone for value rather than need....which, by most accounts, is the best strategy. Of course, when it doesn't work for someone, it's easy to point it out after the fact. I don't think anyone, myself included, would take the same players if we knew what we know now....I'd love to have taken a starting quality lineman with the Felix pick.

IMO, there were two problems here...signing Barber to a big contract, and taking a RB that high. Easy to say that now though. I hope we learn from this.

and I don't agree building through FA.. it often doesn't work. you complement and fill holes that you missed on draft picks with FAs. you fill back up roles, probably with older FAs that can step in and play. you sign high impact to fill a couple of key positions. but we can't fill the entire line or defense, etc. with FAs. we already have three and its not working out.

I never suggested I would "build" through FA....I said I would like us to be more aggressive with linemen in FA....(i.e. Mankins). Instead of adding Williams for the "wow" factor, I think we all would have rather had a lineman.

part of it is that we have missed on OL men in the draft. part of it is that we don't spend many top round picks on OL. outside of Al Johnson and Marten we haven't spent a top 2 pick on any OL in the past 6 years. and the OL is your bread and butter.

I agree....but as I'v alluded to, if the value isn't there..... The value of solid linemen isn't a secret, and the best prospects go early...many times earlier than they should. Reaching for need would bring its own set of problems. If we didn't see the value at those positions, then I can't complain....but again, I think we could all go back and find an OL pick to replace Felix, for example. I just have a hard time believing that the guys in the war room, JJ included, are sitting there going "We need a flashy player here regardless...the hell if he's getting hit 3 yards behind the LOS". They went with value IMO.

and I agree, outside of romo and ware that on this team are untouchable. I would actually trade any of the other ones.

dez included, since AZ, Texas, Minn all of have top notch and I mean top notch WRs and have nothing to show for it.

Again...the key word here is value. What are you going to trade Dez for? You don't like building through FA, so do you trade him for picks? I'd have an EXTREMELY hard time trading what looks like a rare talent that's just begun to prove himself....I think there is enough evidence to say that he's special....I don't trade that for picks.

There are FAR too many variables here to simply say "I'd trade anyone". Do you trade veteran leadership? Youth? Potential? Coachability? Lots of questions to answer before you give away proven assets for question marks.

and I agree. RBs are too easy to find in middle rounds to spend a first round pick on a RB he better be 100% sure he is the next coming of LT. and even then I think we can do with a lesser RB than an LT type RB.

This I do agree with....I didn't particularly like the Felix pick. I like Felix, but I look around the league and see 30-40 RB's that get the job done...and there are likely 30-40 more behind them that could prove to be serviceable as well. Personally, I can't put a value on a RB higher than a second round pick.

 

[SDCowboy]

the OL, the QB and defense. looka t NE. who do they have at RB? WR? but they just laid 45 on the jets who are one of the better defenses in the league. before we call it a fluke they laid 39 on the steelers. they have one true viable WR and that's welker. and danny woodhead who?

Atlanta really has Roddy White and although turner is good, their OL is awsome. keeps Ryan upright and gives them a chance to win it at the end.

Look at Ravens and you see a great defense, a tiny RB and bunch of older WRs and a possession WR. yet they are in it every week and every year. what I would give for their OL.

SD is doing it all season with rivers a great OL and 3rd and 4th string WRs and back up RB who use to be a fullback.

even Indy, who is 6-6 mostly because of their defense is still scoring and they got injuries at reciver coming out the wazoo and a bunch of no name RBs.

what's a ferrari good for, if its got a Geo Metro engine and your neighbours 14 year old kid as the driver. the engine is the OL, the driver is the QB.

get those fixed and we see championships.

I would trade Austin or Dez for two top notch OL men. I know people would hate me for this. but that's how you win championships. not by how shiny your car looks. but how it runs.

Is this a troll post or a joke.

 

[Jay]

:clap2:
Nice job. Its Brandon Tate, but the others are correct. Angel Hernandez has more catches than Tate, but i didn't clarify that very well ha. Anyway, aside from Branch and Welker, these are some names that i bet a good number of football fans might not recognize. Hernandez is a rookie and Tate is seeing his first extended action since he was drafted.

Aaron Hernandez, from Bristol CT.

 

[28 Joker]

The Eagles and Colts have stock piled their offensive skill players with first or second round picks. The Vikings have Peterson and Harvin.

McCoy had a first round grade for them, I do believe. They lucked out by getting him in round 2. They traded up for Macklin in round 1. They stole DeSean Jackson (first round talent) in round 2.

The Colts drafted a QB, RB, WR, and TE in round 1.

There is more than one way to win.

Dallas needs to start drafting on the offensive line high now, and I think you will see it.

When you get a shot at players like McFadden, Stewart, Jones, Mendenahall, and Johnson, you take them. They are the best players on the board when your team comes up to pick. Plus, those teams wanted or needed running backs. You can't teach home run speed. Charles went in round 2. I think Forte went in round 2.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The Eagles and Colts have stock piled their offensive skill players with first or second round picks. The Vikings have Peterson and Harvin.

McCoy had a first round grade for them, I do believe. They lucked out by getting him in round 2. They traded up for Macklin in round 1. They stole DeSean Jackson (first round talent) in round 2.

The Colts drafted a QB, RB, WR, and TE in round 1.

There is more than one way to win.

Dallas needs to start drafting on the offensive line high now, and I think you will see it.

When you get a shot at players like McFadden, Stewart, Jones, Mendenahall, and Johnson, you take them. They are the best players on the board when your team comes up to pick. Plus, those teams wanted or needed running backs. You can't teach home run speed. Charles went in round 2. I think Forte went in round 2.

my point is we don't take that many OL men. and we take them in lower rounds and we miss out on them too often. only Free has worked out. the rams took saffold in the top of 2nd last year. we could have traded down, get extra picks and take saffold. but our board had him rated as 3 rounder.

we are not good at evaluating OL men. even more so we rate them lower than most other teams.

when you don't draft well in a category I would rather draft them higher.

and when you just handed 40 mill contract to a RB....you don't draft another RB in the first round. first rounders need to be starters. not part time players.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Is this a troll post or a joke.

why would this be a joke? is 4-8 funny to you?

 

[SDCowboy]

why would this be a joke? is 4-8 funny to you?

4-8 isn't funny at all. Comparing Romo to a 14 year old and wanting to trade two of the best WRs in the league for lineman, is.

 

[rkell87]

Quick! Who are the Patriots top 3 WR's and top RB?! Don't peek!

not peeking, id say welker, branch, tate and if you include TEs it would be gronk, then green ellis is the top RB with woodhead behind him. what do i win?


well i guess you can take hernandez or gronk one has more yards one has more TDs

 

[28 Joker]

my point is we don't take that many OL men. and we take them in lower rounds and we miss out on them too often. only Free has worked out. the rams took saffold in the top of 2nd last year. we could have traded down, get extra picks and take saffold. but our board had him rated as 3 rounder.

we are not good at evaluating OL men. even more so we rate them lower than most other teams.

when you don't draft well in a category I would rather draft them higher.

and when you just handed 40 mill contract to a RB....you don't draft another RB in the first round. first rounders need to be starters. not part time players.

I agree with you. The Cowboys could have drafted Andy Levitre but traded out. They could have drafted Phil Loadholt in that draft, too. Those two players are certainly better than what they have at those spots now.

The Titans head scout stated that he thought Felix Jones was a "tough inside runner"and could "carry the load". The Cowboys may have thought differently, but they are learning that Jones is worthy of 15-20 carries per game. Jones should touch the ball (rushes and passes) around 20 times per game. He is on a pace for 500+ yards receiving this year and is on a pace to finish with 1,311 total yards. If the run blocking was better, he would be doing more damage. Jones has 426 total yards in the last four games alone. That is 48.1% of his total yards this year. Jones tallied 272 total yards in two weeks against the Eagles last season. Jones is a feature all-purpose running back or an explosive weapon at RB.

The Cowboys can't block counter runs anymore. This was Garrett's primary run to get Felix Jones to the outside or grass or space. Watch the Bears game and and other games and note how the few counter runs called for Jones are never blocked like they used to be in past years.

The right side of the offensive line is horrible in the running game. If Garrett wants a stronger running game, he better get rid of Leonard Davis. Davis really doesn't have any power, either. He's become a slow footed player who doesn't have power in the running game. Plus, he has played too high this year and he has whiffed in space too much and he can't hold his blocks in the running game. Davis and Colombo are two huge reasons why this team ranks 24th in rush offense.

I agree on Barber, I argued against giving him that contract or Frank Gore money. Jerry Jones drafted Jones and Choice and had the leverage but chose not to use it.

Roy E. Williams could have been Micheal Oher or Hakeem Nicks. Plus, look at the huge amount of money you would have saved.

There will be value at offensive line when Dallas picks in round 1 and 2, imso. I would take two right off the bat.

 

[dmq]

If you want to know why the Patriots have a great offense it is because Bill Belichick is a freaking genius coach. That is why he is going into the Hall of Fame. Even if he does cheat.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

4-8 isn't funny at all. Comparing Romo to a 14 year old and wanting to trade two of the best WRs in the league for lineman, is.

I think the 14 year old boy driver is misleading. I didn't mention trade romo.

I also didn't say trade both WRs. I said I would trade one for couple of OL men. not any but couple of good if that would be viable.

and tell me if you would rather be in Cowboys shoes or in NE? would you rather be us or Saints?

you can not argue with all the shiny toys we got, yet we can get anything done because of lack of OL play. yet those teams succeed year in year out.....with average players in the back field and WR.

 

[Brooksey]

The O-line is good, the positional players are smart but the masters Tom Brady and coach Bill B. makes this happen. They play great team football.