It's not Kiffin's fault it's the personnel

[theSHOW]

I hate the scheme and I want Kiffin gone. He was pushed out of the NFL years ago and forced out of college last year by his own son of all people. The game has passed him by and it's time he retired.

I agree

Clearly, it is Kiffin's fault. He and his understudy Rod M should also be more aware of who not to put on the def front. And wtg with the development of a young star in Bruce carter.

 

[Flinger]

People keep on acting like the 20 DL thing was the only reason for the failure.

It was doomed from the beginning, even if we had fewer injuries.

Our philosophy on the personnel from the moment he walked in the door was wrong, the biggest one being that Jay Ratliff could still play, regardless of his malingering. The rest of the issues were the snowball effect from there.

And, you know that - how?

 

[Flinger]

I wonder if a front line of a healthy Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and Hatcher would have been a difference maker? Oh - and, Mo, Wilcox, Lee, Durant and Carter for the entire year?

 

[Alexander]

And, you know that - how?

Know what? The Ratliff situation? It was and has been clear to anyone who did not feel obligated to overvalue him because of his contract that he cannot play at a high level. The 3-4 was not holding him back. He simply was not very good anymore.

Wait--is this where you start in with the bad luck thing? If so, spare me.

 

[Flinger]

No, that it was doomed from the beginning...

Oh - not bad luck. Sometimes things don't work out - things happen like injuries.

Which player do you think is better - Spencer or Selvie?

 

[Alexander]

I wonder if a front line of a healthy Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and Hatcher would have been a difference maker? Oh - and, Mo, Wilcox, Lee, Durant and Carter for the entire year?

With the exception of Spencer and Ratliff, we had that stepping on the field in the opener and unable to hold a six turnover offense in the Giants down.

But I guess it is kind of nice to pretend that it would have just been as dominant as they said it would be in the sunshine and rainbows offseason.

 

[Flinger]

Dude - you're just like all the other in the herd... you just don't want to hear or say anything but negative drivel

 

[Alexander]

No, that it was doomed from the beginning...

Oh - not bad luck. Sometimes things don't work out - things happen like injuries.

Yes, things happen like being guilty of misdiagnosing injuries.

Both Ratliff and Spencer, the two key cogs were cases in point.

Both were huge misses where there was an assumption of health, when in actuality, both had chronic lingering injuries that just did not happen suddenly like say Crawford's did.

That is not bad luck or things just happening. That is an error in recognition and pretending things are actually fine when they are not.

 

[Alexander]

Dude - you're just like all the other in the herd... you just don't want to hear or say anything but negative drivel

No, I actually do not sit there and take what this organization which has been proven wrong over and over again as correct. Nor do I fall for the idea that we are just the unluckiest team in the history of forever for the last 17 seasons. I do not pretend we have a good general manager or that our owner behaves like everyone else.

In other words, I am just a baaaaad fan and one of the herd.

Fine with me. I do not like the feeling of being deluded.

 

[khiladi]

Ah yes, Ben Bass. I forgot about that future star. And since he thought we needed linebackers, why was Holloman the only one chosen?

That comment was indicative of how they thought. They thought Ratliff would be a terror in this defense. They thought Ware and Spencer would be dominant edge rushers and could stand up to the physical pounding in a 4-3. They thought people like Crawford and Bass were budding stars that did not need competition. They thought Brian Price was going to be a find.

They thought wrong. On every single front. Amazingly the one player they were uncertain about in Hatcher turned out being the one who actually surprised.

That takes skill to be that utterly and completely wrong.

 

[khiladi]

He was just fine in man coverage last year and his previous 4 in KC. But I agree he was getting burnt once they made the switch over.

In the Detroit game at least, I saw a lot of blown coverages on the guy Carr was letting Megatron go to what was obviously suppose to be another person's zone. But in the last few games, when they went man, the drag route seemed to give him trouble, at least as far as the Commanders game was concerned. But he was also pretty sick that game.

 

[Picksix]

Dude - you're just like all the other in the herd... you just don't want to hear or say anything but negative drivel

No, there are those who are just plain negative all the time - who take any thread, regardless of its basis, and turn it into another gripe session about the coach, the owner, or the QB. Not him. He's just naturally critical, and with this team, there is a lot to be critical of. Bringing in a 73 year old DC to run a brand new scheme was flawed. The scheme is okay, if you have the players to run it, and also the flexibility to switch out of it at times. But going into the season, pinning your success on the backs of a group of 30-something (or close) was flawed. I don't have a problem with what we did with LB's, because I thought they would fit just fine, but Carter couldn't cover anyone, and couldn't get off blocks. Installing a zone defensive scheme when you had three good man CB's was flawed. Even if Monte wanted to put in a Seattle-type single high safety scheme, that was flawed because we had no Earl Thomas type safety in center field.

We over evaluated what we had, which is something we tend to do regularly. Look at what Seattle did. They were a play away from the NFC championship game last year, with a very strong defense, and still went out and signed Avril and Bennett. And just drafting and signing more DL in the offseason wouldn't have necessarily been a better solution, but it would've been hard not be.

 

[Alexander]

Bringing in a 73 year old DC to run a brand new scheme was flawed. The scheme is okay, if you have the players to run it, and also the flexibility to switch out of it at times. But going into the season, pinning your success on the backs of a group of 30-something (or close) was flawed. I don't have a problem with what we did with LB's, because I thought they would fit just fine, but Carter couldn't cover anyone, and couldn't get off blocks. Installing a zone defensive scheme when you had three good man CB's was flawed. Even if Monte wanted to put in a Seattle-type single high safety scheme, that was flawed because we had no Earl Thomas type safety in center field.

We over evaluated what we had, which is something we tend to do regularly. Look at what Seattle did. They were a play away from the NFC championship game last year, with a very strong defense, and still went out and signed Avril and Bennett. And just drafting and signing more DL in the offseason wouldn't have necessarily been a better solution, but it would've been hard not be.

Overall good points but I disagree about the idea about the linebackers. They misevaluated Carter badly. The Tampa 2, or even a variant of the Seattle defense has to have that weakside linebacker in place who can do it all, run, cover and make run stops. I make that a priority right behind 3-technique DT if I am looking to improve the football team.

 

[Corso]

Dude - you're just like all the other in the herd... you just don't want to hear or say anything but negative drivel

I get where you're coming from- Alexander can be a bit of a broken record, but

He's very right. I haven't read many posts where he's out and out wrong.
And his points about improving the team are spot-on.

He's one of the posters that actually has solutions up his sleeve, not just complaints and sarcasm.
Although he also has plenty of the latter too. Unfortunately almost all of it's justified.

 

[Risen Star]

It is very true. Our ownership and even some fans don't understand that you can't just change schemes each year and expect things to improve. You need to add talent for that to happen from the front of the defense to the back of it.

I agree with that. But first let's get back to the superior 3-4 scheme, because we need a new defensive roster regardless.

 

[Alexander]

But first let's get back to the superior 3-4 scheme, because we need a new defensive roster regardless.

But that would be a bad thing.

We were only running the 3-4 for nearly ten years and have scouts that spent a lot of time getting on the same page with the coaches to find players for it.

Completely unnecessary since after a year, we are now able to know how to fix all that's wrong with the defense. We are on the cutting edge and just need a strong draft to completely solve the problems since we are using the 4-3 now.

Of the 12 playoff teams, 7 of them are just clinging to the 3-4, which clearly does not work.

 

[Iron_Man]

Kiffin's system relies on superior d-line and safety play. We do not have any, that is despite the weak play we had at CB. Injuries play a part of every year, but we did not have a bench to sustain this year.

In the summer I compared Kiffin's 4-3 to Parcells 3-4. Most of you agreed on here that the plan is just to beat your am. 1 on 1 and try to limit the big play.

Well this year our DLine didn't have the talent to win those 1 on 1 battles and it's hard to stop the run when the OLine is at the second level constantly.

In the pass game when the DLine can't when 1 on 1 battles it becomes flag football for the QB.

So people say why not blitz more? Well given how bad our linebackers were they weren't getting home either so it becomes flag football without enough guys in coverage.

You won't see a big change from Kiffin to Marinelli since Kiffin taught Marinelli the scheme. It's a PR/accountability stunt designed to intimidate in players in the locker room who shouldn't be on the team in the first place. And let's be honest the general fan isn't going to buy or not buy tickets based on who the DC is.

Bottom line is we just need talent! If we can get a dominant line this scheme will be PHENOMINAL bc it will constantly win the 1-on-1 battles and collapse the pocket.

 

[Risen Star]

But that would be a bad thing.

We were only running the 3-4 for nearly ten years and have scouts that spent a lot of time getting on the same page with the coaches to find players for it.

Completely unnecessary since after a year, we are now able to know how to fix all that's wrong with the defense. We are on the cutting edge and just need a strong draft to completely solve the problems since we are using the 4-3 now.

Of the 12 playoff teams, 7 of them are just clinging to the 3-4, which clearly does not work.

They're taking a chance, is what they're doing. Let them get hit with injuries and they won't see the seamless play we do in our 4-3 rushmen scheme.

I can't even imagine where we would have been this year if our defense wasn't so easy to learn.

 

[Risen Star]

Kiffin's system relies on superior d-line and safety play. We do not have any, that is despite the weak play we had at CB. Injuries play a part of every year, but we did not have a bench to sustain this year.

I don't know of any defense that doesn't rely on superior play from it's defensive line.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

I do believe that if you count injuries the personnel are bad, but is it franchise record bad?