I understand your point, but you can't just say "everyone picked after him isn't better" and have that excuse Ellis. I think everyone expected a little more from the 8th pick, regardless of what the guys picked after him did.
He's been a solid player, and definitely better than alot of those guys after him, but not the playmaker that was expected. We picked Ware 3 picks later and he's already more dynamic than Ellis has ever been. You might have been discussing something else with philo (I dunno, I can't see it, and I don't read the quotes). If so, ignore me.