It's time to trade Ellis and Glover and get while the getting's good

[Sarge]

:sarge:

- Mornin' Winks.

Humid or what???????????

 

[Frosty]

"Keep'em both" They give give the cowboys alot of options (safety net if someone gets hurt) Teams will not no what defense to expect. Zimmer could really mess with a QB's head by swithcing up the defense. You could start 3-4 one week and switch the next week or play by play. and The ability to show different lineups will keep opposing QBs and OL back on there heels. Look at the way the cowboys off season move and the draft. It really show they have a plan, let just hope it works.

 

[Trophy#6]

Yes, trade them both! Or atleast Ellis. Hell, Glover, too. We need a younger wide reciever who's already broke or ready to break out...the value of them could accumulate us one. Javon Walker anyone? Detroit, see anything you like- we do!

 

[big dog cowboy]

Yes, trade them both! Or atleast Ellis. Hell, Glover, too. We need a younger wide reciever who's already broke or ready to break out...the value of them could accumulate us one. Javon Walker anyone? Detroit, see anything you like- we do!

WHOA!!! Slow down partner. We need both those guys for depth this year. This is the same discussion we have had since the draft. YOu can not have enough D-lineman. Period. End of discussion. Now if a couple of the rookies pan out, next year will be different.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If the 3-4 doesn't pan out I know a couple folks that are going to get roasted... for a long, long time. :grrr:

The 3-4 will work perfectly after we sign Ty Law.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Glover has value.......Ellis IMHO doesn't have much.

That is going a bit far. Ellis is a steady but not spectacular and a 7 year starter at DE. My bet is there are many teams that would be interested in a guy like that.

 

[cannonball44]

ARGH... so what!! we trade Ellis for picks or Walker and then what??!

Canty's health doesn't work out

Spears gets a high ankle sprain in preseason.

then what?? we have Ratliff and Coleman starting at DE

you people are laughable.

*thank god we'll have Keith Davis to let Roy run free.

 

[THUMPER]

Here is my prediction.... we will end up using the 4-3 more than the 3-4 this season despite what Parcells has said.

We have a really nice front-7 to run a very successful 4-3 defense but to run the 3-4 would require us to put two of our best players on the bench and rely far too heavily on rookies at the 4 outside positions (DE & OLB).

That's a nice fantasy but in reality I don't see that happening this year.

Our front-7 in a 4-3 would be killer with Spears, Ferguson, Glover, & Ellis up front and Ware, Dat, & whoever at LB. Sitting Ellis & Glover just so we can run a defensive style that Bill is more comfortable with is stupid IMO.

I can see us running the 3-4 some of the time this year and trading Ellis and Glover aftr the season (Ellis & Glover can see that too I imagine) but there is no way we would trade them now and be forced to rely completely on untested rookies.

Without Ellis & Glover it would leave us with Spears, Ferguson, & Canty as our starting front-3 with Coleman, Carson, Ogbogu, & Ratliff as their backups. I certainly wouldn't be very comfortable with that and I can't imagine many others would be either.

 

[TheSport78]

agreed...i think it would be a big mistake to trade ellis due to the fact that we know what we get out of Ellis as a player and a LEADER. he's a consistent football player who's decent against the run and is also a decent pass-rusher...but not great. if we trade Ellis for a WR like every1 wants, we would have a COMPLETELY new D-line from last year with the exception of Glover playing in the 4-3 sometimes and rotating in the 3-4 behind Ferg. We still don't know what Spears is gonna do, Ellis has lead this team in sacks the past four years and is a major part of leadership of our D...Ellis has GOTTA STAY!!

 

[cannonball44]

One thing strikes me, and it is that Parcells needs to recognize that the fans will be with Ellis - a guy who has played his ****ing heart out through 5-11 seasons, different coaches, and now a different scheme only to miss pro bowls because he hasn't had the help -- and a sorry *** scheme where he couldn't let loose. And with ALL of this he took less money to be a COWBOY (speaks VOLUMES), and therefore NOONE on this board should question his heart on this "team first" matter.

And since the FANS are with him, that means Jerry is with him, cuz IMO Jerry and the fans are one and the same. He's just a REALLY lucky one who's not too good at "franchise mode" ie. being the GM and such. We need to think about the player sometimes. this isn't a Grady Jackson or Pete Hunter problem. this is a legitimate "Ed reed" type problem where the player does have some legit gripes with the "management". Remember, Greg Ellis wasn't the one screaming, he said he'll keep an open mind, he said he would try his best to be a productive player in the scheme. There's the team leader and all around good guy that WE know.

To all Cowboy fans: Don't lose your cool, but don't think that this is some kind of player whining about some unimportant thing. Ellis' problems aren't with his contract or how many millions he's making, he just wants to be on the field, and if he/Glover deserve anything, its the right to be on the field.

This TEAM is BETTER with Greg Ellis.<---Remember this the next time you say he isn't this and that, or that we need to trade him.

Now someone thank me for not making this it's own thread.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

One thing strikes me, and it is that Parcells needs to recognize that the fans will be with Ellis - a guy who has played his ****ing heart out through 5-11 seasons, different coaches, and now a different scheme only to miss pro bowls because he hasn't had the help -- and a sorry *** scheme where he couldn't let loose. And with ALL of this he took less money to be a COWBOY (speaks VOLUMES), and therefore NOONE on this board should question his heart on this "team first" matter.

And since the FANS are with him, that means Jerry is with him, cuz IMO Jerry and the fans are one and the same. He's just a REALLY lucky one who's not too good at "franchise mode" ie. being the GM and such. We need to think about the player sometimes. this isn't a Grady Jackson or Pete Hunter problem. this is a legitimate "Ed reed" type problem where the player does have some legit gripes with the "management". Remember, Greg Ellis wasn't the one screaming, he said he'll keep an open mind, he said he would try his best to be a productive player in the scheme. There's the team leader and all around good guy that WE know.

To all Cowboy fans: Don't lose your cool, but don't think that this is some kind of player whining about some unimportant thing. Ellis' problems aren't with his contract or how many millions he's making, he just wants to be on the field, and if he/Glover deserve anything, its the right to be on the field.

This TEAM is BETTER with Greg Ellis.<---Remember this the next time you say he isn't this and that, or that we need to trade him.

Now someone thank me for not making this it's own thread.

Well said.

But unfortunately, Greg's "being on the field" would mean no 3-4 implemented.

Getting a good pass rush has to take priority over any player. We could blame Tuna nd Zim for not being able to do with with a 4-3...but there is a good reason across the league the 3-4 is making a resurgance, and that is that Jason Taylors and Jevon Kearses are few and far between, and Warren Sapps in their primes even scarcer.

So you have to get that rush with your backers, many teams are deciding. Even decent 4-3 lines are mixing in some 3-4 looks to keep up with the rest of the league.

I love Greg Ellis as a player, and person, but this move to the 3-4 is not being made lightly, on a whim...the lack of a decent pass rush has impacted EVERYTHING on the team, from over exposing the secondary to forcing the O to play catch up.

Something has to change. And the 4-3 is not going to be totally abandoned.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

- Mornin' Winks.

Humid or what???????????

Too damn humid.

 

[Sarge]

Too damn humid.

I took a shower 4 hours ago and taint dry yet. Brutal.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Man, you've got that right. If BP runs Glover and Ellis out of town and for some reason Ware and Canty don't pan out (I think Spears will be ok for some reason), this board, and Boys fans all over are going to go crazy.

I'm not a BP fan myself, but one thing I have to keep in mind here is....Ellis went to Bill, not the opposite.

Having said that, I'm not down with Parcells screaming at a guy that has busted his *** for this organization for many years. I think that sucks.

Well said, Sarge.

And imagine how fans will feel if we trade off Ellis for some draft pick that we don't even know can play, we get some bad breaks with injuries or just play pooly, and Parcells quits on us?

It could very well happen... And "bitter" and "crazy" won't even begin to describe how some of us will feel then.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Well said Hos.

The fact is that they are close to be untradeable at this point... that is until next winter.

I would agree that their value has gone down because teams know we are desperate to get something for them now, but we could always put them in a bidding war, especially someone like Glover. And this isn't the same as a player like Pete Hunter or Troy Hambrick, where teams know we'll just release them if we can't find a suitable trade. We'll keep these fellas for depth if nothing else, I think we could find someone who would at least give up a 3rd rounder.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Well said, Sarge.

And imagine how fans will feel if we trade off Ellis for some draft pick that we don't even know can play, we get some bad breaks with injuries or just play pooly, and Parcells quits on us?

It could very well happen... And "bitter" and "crazy" won't even begin to describe how some of us will feel then.

That's what I really hate the most about this whole 3-4 affair. Parcell probably won't be here next year. Couldn't he at least done this 3-4 transformation when he first walked in instead of having a knee jerk reaction to a season in which our defense had a lot of injuries and also failed because of how freaking cheap he was in free agency. We had our free agent corner and Bert Berry last year, and maybe had Woody the entire season, I think we'd stll be in a 4-3.

 

[NickZepp]

I think Glover can succeed in the 3-4. We should trade Ellis now. I bet we can get a 2nd rounder or a decent DB somewhere for him now. Or a young WR.

 

[Kangaroo]

Well said.

But unfortunately, Greg's "being on the field" would mean no 3-4 implemented.

Getting a good pass rush has to take priority over any player. We could blame Tuna nd Zim for not being able to do with with a 4-3...but there is a good reason across the league the 3-4 is making a resurgance, and that is that Jason Taylors and Jevon Kearses are few and far between, and Warren Sapps in their primes even scarcer.

So you have to get that rush with your backers, many teams are deciding. Even decent 4-3 lines are mixing in some 3-4 looks to keep up with the rest of the league.

I love Greg Ellis as a player, and person, but this move to the 3-4 is not being made lightly, on a whim...the lack of a decent pass rush has impacted EVERYTHING on the team, from over exposing the secondary to forcing the O to play catch up.

Something has to change. And the 4-3 is not going to be totally abandoned.

Funny though people are switching because of NE yet Baltimore is going back to 4-3 because they have not done as well in the 3-4 as they did the 4-3 and won a superbowl with it.

 

[smashmouth]

On draft day after we had picked our first 3 picks, my first question was ( What are we going to do with Glover and Ellis? ). I knew from that day that we were going to play the 3-4 and their productivity could be in jeapardy.

I also said that we'd never won anything with these guys so why are we so in love with them. We have to give up something to get something and we have 2 somethings to give up. I remember when fans almost assasinated JJ and Jimmy J when they traded our Heisman away to Minnesota leaving us with no back at all worth anything. STOP FALLING IN LOVE WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T DOMINANT!

They were the best on our team, but in leagues standard they were just above average. And I don't know about you, but I would keep Glover before keeping Ellis, because Ellis is not a great pass rusher. We've been making excuses every year for Ellis and he still can't turn in a double digit sack year.

Besides that, we have less than two weeks to go folks, let's get HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dallas4ever]

Both of these guys have no future on the Cowboys defense. People are just holding on to fading memories when thinking about them making any kind of dent in our new 3-4. It's hard not to admire them, because they've been such stand up guys for the team, but they're both 4-3 guys in the truest sense, who provide decent depth for a 3-4, but it's pointless to sit them on the bench when they make millions a year, and we could probably get something nice in return if we traded them now. If big guys like Ferguson and Spears go down and we have to depend on Glover and Ellis full-time, the season is over anyways.

If we can get something for Pete Hunter, we can definitely get something for Ellis and Glover. Parcells is just going to hurt himself keeping these guys who still have quality starts in their system on the bench. Don't give me this stuff about them whining either because no one wants to sit on the bench when they are still productive players. Parcells risk losing the team when he upsets guys like Ellis and Glover.

It makes so much sense to trade them, and I'm amazed Jones and Parcells didn't start looking immediately after that 3-4 draft.

I have totally disagree with you here. The Cowboys are trying to add players to the defense, not get rid anyone who can play. Although I like Ferguson, he is not a better player than Glover or Greg Ellis. Who are you assuming will take their positions and make any kind of an impact. Surely not any rookie, and if you were to trade them you probably wouldn't get anything other than a future draft pick or a couple of role players. The team is better off with them here and showing them that they can still be productive. Its human nature to react when you're changing from the norm.