I've been as hard on Jason Garrett as anyone here

[ShiningStar]

Which players are underachieving, the OL, beyond that you are basically talking about role players and rookies that should not be starting but are due to injuries.

Is Tyrone lighting it up? Dlaw? Wilcox & Church,? Mo ? (playing solid) none of these guys are hurt. They are sub average at best. Losing Callahan is hurting. but ok im willing to give Pollack time.

Im personally not sold on many players as other fans are. Here is what lands at Garretts feet, ST, sloppy, start helping the coach or getting on his butt. Penalties. this is STILL a stupid team that does dumb things. We saw that a few times last night. This team needs to tighten up, I dont want to shock anyone here, so if your heart isnt good, or if you are not a steady person, look away. Othere coaches have to deal with injuries and bad teams, and guess what, they know what to do, Payton exploited us everywhere, and what did we do, help him.

we play down to our competition, we have to stop that thats on garrett. we have to shuffle our RBs and get them to be effective, thats on Garrett. This team has to drop teh dumb, it has to drp teh penealties, all of these things rest on the HC.

Do you understand we have a HC that bares zero responsiblity for anything. Why is that? A winless team beat us. Hands down. and we still continue to trot out the same hot mess with the same results. Why?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Which players are underachieving, the OL, beyond that you are basically talking about role players and rookies that should not be starting but are due to injuries.

hey, I was just kidding wit you.

 

[TimHortons]

so you are saying a solid safety makes 100% of all the plays around him. Church is a much surer tackler than the JJ "Projectile" Wilcox. As the saying "goes if you are relying on your safety to be the last line defense all the time you are in trouble."

Not 100% but more than Church or Wilcox makes. You need only looks at the game winning play last night. Church has the sidelines to his advantage and still misses the tackle. It's not like that play was an anomaly for Church, he misses tackles constantly. Sure, he's better than Wilcox but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement

 

[jrumann59]

Is Tyrone lighting it up? Dlaw? Wilcox & Church,? Mo ? (playing solid) none of these guys are hurt. They are sub average at best. Losing Callahan is hurting. but ok im willing to give Pollack time.

Im personally not sold on many players as other fans are. Here is what lands at Garretts feet, ST, sloppy, start helping the coach or getting on his butt. Penalties. this is STILL a stupid team that does dumb things. We saw that a few times last night. This team needs to tighten up, I dont want to shock anyone here, so if your heart isnt good, or if you are not a steady person, look away. Othere coaches have to deal with injuries and bad teams, and guess what, they know what to do, Payton exploited us everywhere, and what did we do, help him.

we play down to our competition, we have to stop that thats on garrett. we have to shuffle our RBs and get them to be effective, thats on Garrett. This team has to drop teh dumb, it has to drp teh penealties, all of these things rest on the HC.

Do you understand we have a HC that bares zero responsiblity for anything. Why is that? A winless team beat us. Hands down. and we still continue to trot out the same hot mess with the same results. Why?

In a scheme like the Tampa 2 it is scheme that relies on multiple people doing their job and make the other side fear them for doing their job. With no one opposite of D-Law the other team helps with him a back or TE, Crawford is seeing more double teams and when lee went out the fear the WLB would mke the play went away. Chruch and Wilcox were bad last night, wilcox has been bad since week 2 and his desire to just hit.

 

[ShiningStar]

In a scheme like the Tampa 2 it is scheme that relies on multiple people doing their job and make the other side fear them for doing their job. With no one opposite of D-Law the other team helps with him a back or TE, Crawford is seeing more double teams and when lee went out the fear the WLB would mke the play went away. Chruch and Wilcox were bad last night, wilcox has been bad since week 2 and his desire to just hit.

Cant argue with it. im just not seeing why things arent being done. Again, some players arent now who we think they are. If T Crawford is seeing double teamage, ok, i can understand that, i dont expect him all pro, we have delved in average so long any player wiht possible potential is wonderful to have. I just dont see him doing to much, maybe that changes next week. We ll see.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Because he played overly conservative and pretty much gutless.

He does Weeden no favors by making us completely predictable offensively.

He offers us nothing special as a Coach.. Nothing.

What was so conservative? Weeden took shots. He threw it up to to Williams a few times in the end zone on one red zone possession that ended with a FG, aggressive play calling and when it didn't work, everyone in the game thread was asking "why didn't we run the ball?!"

Our QB is limited and he's got, really, no #1 or #2 receiver to work with. One of his top targets was lost for the second half. He doesn't have a lot to work with there.

 

[jrumann59]

Cant argue with it. im just not seeing why things arent being done. Again, some players arent now who we think they are. If T Crawford is seeing double teamage, ok, i can understand that, i dont expect him all pro, we have delved in average so long any player wiht possible potential is wonderful to have. I just dont see him doing to much, maybe that changes next week. We ll see.

I also think due to injuries the DL are taking its toll, we have guys playing DT or DE who should be playing one or the other. I think the goal from the beginning was Gregory and hardy manning the RE, wihth hardy sliding to DT on passing downs and Gregory being a pass rush specialist, D-law would get spelled by Mincey who would also slide inside to DT to spell Crawford with the other subs being DT help. Right now we have Crawford and Lawrence playing almost all the snaps with hayden and revolving door of JAGS at RE and back up DT

 

[khiladi]

Remember when the Commanders were a train wreck, heading into this season, with the wife of the GM airing dirty laundry in public, Gruden benching RG3 the whole season, them looking awful in pre-season, us laughing because Cousins was not the starting QB, all of DC bashing Gruden and now they are 2-2 just like us...

Oh yeah, and them playing De'Angelo Hall in the 3rd and 4th game in pre-season to have him re-prove himself?

 

[coult44]

And anyone who has conversed with me on CZ knows that.

With that said, I find it really hard to fathom that there's currently a six page thread blaming Garrett for last night. I have never thought and still don't think he's a top flight NFL coach.

However, you have to consider we went onto the road last night without our star QB and star WR. Lost one of our most diverse offensive weapons halfway through the game. Lost our best defensive player early in the game, which meant we were without two starting DE's and two starting LB's and one of the backup LB's hobbled off toward the end of the game, leaving a not-ready-for-prime time rookie in Damien Wilson to cover CJ Spiller and obviously he couldn't get the job done.

This team is up against it with injuries right now. The fact that they even got that game into OT last night has got to be considered a minor miracle. I don't know if there's any coach in the NFL, including Belichick, that could overcome the injuries we've been hit with thus far.

Ok, then help me out. Answer some questions, and explain these things to someone who places a lot of blame on the HC in training.

1) He gifted NO 3 points by not having right guys on field. And then by not calling timeout before the penalty.

2) Why is Dumbar returning kicks in the first place, and why is he coming out of the endzone 8-9 yards deep? How many kick offs are returned past the 20 from that deep? And wasn't Lucky given a roster spot for this purpose? You don't put a man who is an integral part of your offense in as a kick returner. Especially with our injuryy situatuon.

3) The decision on when and how to play C-MIKE was beyond elementary. Every person in the stadium and watching on TV knew what that play call was gonna be. Why even activate him if that was the only play he was gonna carry the ball? JJ said he would carry the ball in extreme short yardage situations. Uhhh, hey JG, the saints knew that also.

4) We keep having boneheaded plays. Randle, Street, Corey White, Wilson.??? Those are all plays based on bad coaching.

5) Speaking of the Wilson play. Why on Earth didn't we call a timeout when we seen Gachcar running off the field. What were we saving them for? Were we saving them, or waiting until we had another play with 12 guys on the field to make up for the other time we didn't use it?

6) Why use hurry up and not control the TOP if we aren't going to run the play before the other team makes their substitutions? Makes zero sense...

We can keep going, but it's still all the same stuff. I understand the injuries. But, it's the job of the HC to put his team in a position to compete with the players he has. It's his job to make sure the players aren't making dumb decisions. If it were one or two, that would be one thing. But it's dumb after dumb after dumb play our guys keep making. That's called coaching. Or, cutting!!!

 

[Idgit]

if the majority of your defense is injured or suspended...you dont keep things simple and put it on them.

I'll let you slid with putting it on the OL since they shouldnt be sucking at the rate they are.

Cassel has 2 full starting seasons posting a 90+ qb rating for each season. 2008 and 2010. Weeden has 0.

This isn't 2008. Weeden's current rating is 108.8. Last year it was 85.7. Cassel was 65.8, 81.6, and 66.7 in his last three stops, and that was on teams where he'd had a full training camp and knew the full playbook.

If the defense is to injured or to suspended to stop anybody, then there really is nothing for it. You have to be able to stop the pass or pass it yourself in this league. If you can't do either, your sunk. And if you're counting on Brandon Weeden to beat teams with his arm, you're sunk. That means it's defense or nothing in my book until Romo gets back. We're not trotting out anybody else on this roster and beating teams in games where we have to put up 40 points to win. It's just not going to happen.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

This isn't 2008. Weeden's current rating is 108.8. Last year it was 85.7. Cassel was 65.8, 81.6, and 66.7 in his last three stops, and that was on teams where he'd had a full training camp and knew the full playbook.

If the defense is to injured or to suspended to stop anybody, then there really is nothing for it. You have to be able to stop the pass or pass it yourself in this league. If you can't do either, your sunk. And if you're counting on Brandon Weeden to beat teams with his arm, you're sunk. That means it's defense or nothing in my book until Romo gets back. We're not trotting out anybody else on this roster and beating teams in games where we have to put up 40 points to win. It's just not going to happen.

in 2014, full games started and played, Cassel was 1-1. In 2013, 4-3.

So, in recent action, Cassel is 5-4.

What is Weeden's recent record again????? Thought so.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Ok, then help me out. Answer some questions, and explain these things to someone who places a lot of blame on the HC in training.

1) He gifted NO 3 points by not having right guys on field. And then by not calling timeout before the penalty.

2) Why is Dumbar returning kicks in the first place, and why is he coming out of the endzone 8-9 yards deep? How many kick offs are returned past the 20 from that deep? And wasn't Lucky given a roster spot for this purpose? You don't put a man who is an integral part of your offense in as a kick returner. Especially with our injuryy situatuon.

3) The decision on when and how to play C-MIKE was beyond elementary. Every person in the stadium and watching on TV knew what that play call was gonna be. Why even activate him if that was the only play he was gonna carry the ball? JJ said he would carry the ball in extreme short yardage situations. Uhhh, hey JG, the saints knew that also.

4) We keep having boneheaded plays. Randle, Street, Corey White, Wilson.??? Those are all plays based on bad coaching.

5) Speaking of the Wilson play. Why on Earth didn't we call a timeout when we seen Gachcar running off the field. What were we saving them for? Were we saving them, or waiting until we had another play with 12 guys on the field to make up for the other time we didn't use it?

6) Why use hurry up and not control the TOP if we aren't going to run the play before the other team makes their substitutions? Makes zero sense...

We can keep going, but it's still all the same stuff. I understand the injuries. But, it's the job of the HC to put his team in a position to compete with the players he has. It's his job to make sure the players aren't making dumb decisions. If it were one or two, that would be one thing. But it's dumb after dumb after dumb play our guys keep making. That's called coaching. Or, cutting!!!

- He probably should have called TO on the 12-men penalty, assuming he saw it. And if he didn't see it, he definitely should have. That was a mistake.

- Maybe our offense wasn't doing much and Garrett was hoping to get a spark in the return game? Do you really think our coaching staff has never told these guys to kneel on a kickoff that deep in the end zone? Do you REALLY think that? Sometimes guys get a stick up their butt and try to make a play and I'm sure that's what Dunbar did.

- Football is not always about fooling the other team. More often than not, especially in the running game, it's about lining up our 11 vs. your 11 and see who out-executes the other. We got out-executed on that play. You want to waste a roster spot on Michael to bring him in as a decoy? I don't quite understand your complaint here.

- Bad coaching or bad players making bad plays?

- What does the Wilson play have to do with the Gachkar play?

- I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to on this last one.

 

[Idgit]

in 2014, full games started and played, Cassel was 1-1. In 2013, 4-3.

So, in recent action, Cassel is 5-4.

What is Weeden's recent record again????? Thought so.

That's not conclusive since you need 46 players to win football games and not 1.

If you think adding a journeyman backup who's been with the team for two weeks throwing to Lucky Whitehead and Devin Street is going to improve over the level of play you've gotten from Weeden the last two and a half weeks, I"m not sure what to tell you. It's much more likely to lead to a further drop off at the QB position and not an upgrade, and if it's an upgrade, it won't be enough to close the gap between Weeden and a healthy Tony Romo throwing to Dez Bryant.

When things are dicey, you want to eliminate the variables that can get you beat and not add new ones just because 'how can it be any worse?' It can be a lot worse.

Our best hope is that the defensive players coming off suspension help improve the defense. That's got a reasonable chance of actually happening. Other than that, we have to figure out how to run block better again, and Weeden's earned the shot in my book to play with more empty sets next week to see if he can do it without making more mistakes.

 

[ShiningStar]

I also think due to injuries the DL are taking its toll, we have guys playing DT or DE who should be playing one or the other. I think the goal from the beginning was Gregory and hardy manning the RE, wihth hardy sliding to DT on passing downs and Gregory being a pass rush specialist, D-law would get spelled by Mincey who would also slide inside to DT to spell Crawford with the other subs being DT help. Right now we have Crawford and Lawrence playing almost all the snaps with hayden and revolving door of JAGS at RE and back up DT

Ok, ill accept that. Thank you.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

That's not conclusive since you need 46 players to win football games and not 1.

If you think adding a journeyman backup who's been with the team for two weeks throwing to Lucky Whitehead and Devin Street is going to improve over the level of play you've gotten from Weeden the last two and a half weeks, I"m not sure what to tell you. It's much more likely to lead to a further drop off at the QB position and not an upgrade, and if it's an upgrade, it won't be enough to close the gap between Weeden and a healthy Tony Romo throwing to Dez Bryant.

When things are dicey, you want to eliminate the variables that can get you beat and not add new ones just because 'how can it be any worse?' It can be a lot worse.

Our best hope is that the defensive players coming off suspension help improve the defense. That's got a reasonable chance of actually happening. Other than that, we have to figure out how to run block better again, and Weeden's earned the shot in my book to play with more empty sets next week to see if he can do it without making more mistakes.

all we need is someone to go 3-out 1 less time per game...that alone would be a huge game changer.

 

[jrumann59]

all we need is someone to go 3-out 1 less time per game...that alone would be a huge game changer.

Tampa is a few weeks away.

 

[coult44]

Tampa is a few weeks away.

Tampa made NO look bad...