Jaylon Smith/Connor Williams

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,354
Reaction score
8,616
Jaylon Smith is the least of our problems on defense. The team needs another corner, a safety and two defensive tackles. Also you have to pray that Gregory stays out of trouble and LVE does not suffer another injury. If that happens then you can talk to me about Jaylon being the problem. You can argue with the exception of DLaw he is the most reliable player on the defense.

I have no idea what you could be watching. Regardless of what other needs there may be, Jaylon is the poster child for Un-Meritocracy. He definitely shouldn't be a starter. Probably shouldn't even see the field unless you used him on special teams. His continuing to start when the film clearly shows how bad he is a terrible message to everyone else on the team. Removing him from the team would be definition of addition by subtraction. Once we remove him you can talk to me about the other issues.
 

baltcowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,151
Reaction score
16,903
I have no idea what you could be watching. Regardless of what other needs there may be, Jaylon is the poster child for Un-Meritocracy. He definitely shouldn't be a starter. Probably shouldn't even see the field unless you used him on special teams. His continuing to start when the film clearly shows how bad he is a terrible message to everyone else on the team. Removing him from the team would be definition of addition by subtraction. Once we remove him you can talk to me about the other issues.
So you are saying Jaylon is a bigger problem then the fact we have no defensive tackles or safeties? You are also saying we should keep Sean Lee, LVE, and Joe Thomas. You do realize Jaylon was moved back to middle linebacker because LVE was injured. You do realize that LVE is still only playing half the snaps, Lee just played a whopping 13 snaps last game and Thomas did not get in the game. Before you crap on the best linebacker on the team please come with a plan because the glass brothers are not it.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,904
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Both were drafted as projects, one because of injury.

They do have one thing in common, both were drafted too high without considering the difference in college and the NFL.

Smith was over drafted because they didn't consider the rest of the team around him and level of competition that allowed him to play all over the field. At first, I chalked up his play to not healing 100% but it's not just his foot, it's his head. He is late to recognize the play and slow to react and pointing to his number of tackles is ludicrous, how many are for no gain or losses? He should be leading the team in tackles, that's by design.

The rap on Williams was his size and strength so they needed to bulk him up to play OG instead of OT in the Big 12, not known for having stellar DE's. They can make him bigger, make him stronger but can they make him better? At some point, some projects hit the discard pile.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
When you watch Jaylon on tape, what is your assessment of him? Am I wrong seeing a player struggle badly with average instincts? Wasn't Bruce Carter a similar player, off the charts athleticism but not an instinctive linebacker.

When I watch both Lve/Lee I see linebackers who have good read and react skills. They see the play before it happens, usually beat their blocker to a spot that leads to negative plays. Any minor fake or counter, Jaylon takes himself out of the play, this has been happening for years.

There was a lot of talk, during the draft, when we took Jaylon. I'm not sure you can go back and review those and what's more, I'm not sure it would be a good use of your time. However, suffice to say that there were a lot of fans that really wanted to draft him and liked him. There were also those who didn't love him. I watched him at ND and I didn't love him. He was a run and chase LB. He was not a pressure OLB, although physically, he could have been but he really wasn't. He only had like 7 Sacks in three seasons at ND. His best asset was to go sideline to sideline and to basically chase down guys. That's what he was always good at. What he wasn't good at was taking on OLs and getting off blocks. His speed allowed him to run around blocks or get by the blocks before OLs could get angles to get a block on him but in the Pros, that changed. In the Pros, guys get blocks so you gotta be able to stack and shed and if you can't do that, then you can't be an effective all around LB. This team doesn't have that guy on the roster. We have too many LBs who run and chase. LVE isn't really that guy either because of his physical limitations. Lee can do that but he's too long in the tooth to do that over an entire season.

For the record, Smith is a good dude, I believe. He's a good guy but he doesn't fit. I've thought that from the time I saw him at ND and I've seen nothing, at all, to change that initial evaluation. This is why drafting is so important. You can't fall in love with physical capabilities and just ignore all else that goes into the position. One of the very best players I ever saw was Lawrence Taylor. Not only was he a generational athlete but he had the mentality to do all the things you needed to, to be a great, great player at his position. Without both, he's not a HOF player.

We tend to fall in love with certain attributes and overlook the intangibles. We seem to not have a clear direction in how we build a team. A lot of this, on the Defensive side of the ball seems to me, to be a lack of vision or perhaps importance attached to the Defense. Our team doesn't view the Defense as the difference maker. We look to the Offense to be the focal point. We take the attitude that if we can score X points, we just need the Defense to be average or allow only average play. You don't hear our team say things like, we expect our Defense to be top 10 or top 5 or lead the league. We are always, just give us an average result and we will win it with the Offense. It's a lack of focus, a lack of importance attached to the Defense and I feel like it lends itself to our draft process as well. We don't have a clear vision of who or what we want to be as a Defense. We try to piece together something that will just be average. Well, that's not the way you build a defense. The most important thing about building any unit in Football is understand who and what you want to be. It's not the athletes. It's about knowing what you want to be and what kind of players you need to fill specific roles within that philosophy. You have to build depth and you have to have players with the right attributes to fill roles, not just the physical but the mental and yes, the will to be that guy. Not every player will be that 240/250 pound guy who is willing to take on a 310 pound Guard in the whole and turn the back in. Not every guy is that guy who will meet that pulling Guard, scrap and make the tackle. Some guys will try to run around that block and as result, disrupt the scheme. You can't have that and we draft too many of those guys. We might have done something similar along the OL with our interior lineman but we will need to see how that plays out.

Smith is a good guy I think but he doesn't seem to fit and that's not his fault. That's the teams fault because it was all there on tape, before we ever drafted him.
 
Last edited:

Cowboyny

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,934
Reaction score
19,121
There was a lot of talk, during the draft, when we took Jaylon. I'm not sure you can go back and review those and what's more, I'm not sure it would be a good use of your time. However, suffice to say that there were a lot of fans that really wanted to draft him and liked him. There were also those who didn't love him. I watched him at ND and I didn't love him. He was a run and chase LB. He was not a pressure OLB, although physically, he could have been but he really wasn't. He only had like 7 Sacks in three seasons at ND. His best asset was to go sideline to sideline and to basically chase down guys. That's what he was always good at. What he wasn't good at was taking on OLs and getting off blocks. His speed allowed him to run around blocks or get by the blocks before OLs could get angles to get a block on him but in the Pros, that changed. In the Pros, guys get blocks so you gotta be able to stack and shed and if you can't do that, then you can't be an effective all around LB. This team doesn't have that guy on the roster. We have too many LBs who run and chase. LVE isn't really that guy either because of his physical limitations. Lee can do that but he's too long in the tooth to do that over an entire season.

For the record, Smith is a good dude, I believe. He's a good guy but he doesn't fit. I've thought that from the time I saw him at ND and I've seen nothing, at all, to change that initial evaluation. This is why drafting is so important. You can't fall in love with physical capabilities and just ignore all else that goes into the position. One of the very best players I ever saw was Lawrence Taylor. Not only was he a generational athlete but he had the mentality to do all the things you needed to, to be a great, great player at his position. Without both, he's not a HOF player.

We tend to fall in love with certain attributes and overlook the intangibles. We seem to not have a clear direction in how we build a team. A lot of this, on the Defensive side of the ball seems to me, to be a lack of vision or perhaps importance attached to the Defense. Our team doesn't view the Defense as the difference maker. We look to the Offense to be the focal point. We take the attitude that if we can score X points, we just need the Defense to be average or allow only average play. You don't hear our team say things like, we expect our Defense to be top 10 or top 5 or lead the league. We are always, just give us an average result and we will win it with the Offense. It's a lack of focus, a lack of importance attached to the Defense and I feel like it lends itself to our draft process as well. We don't have a clear vision of who or what we want to be as a Defense. We try to piece together something that will just be average. Well, that's not the way you build a defense. The most important thing about building any unit in Football is understand who and what you want to be. It's not the athletes. It's about knowing what you want to be and what kind of players you need to fill specific roles within that philosophy. You have to build depth and you have to have players with the right . attributes to fill roles, not just the physical but the mental and yes, the will to be that guy. Not every player will be that 240/250 pound guy who is willing to take on a 310 pound Guard in the whole and turn the back in. Not every guy is that guy who will meet that pulling Guard, scrap and make the tackle. Some guys will try to run around that block and as result, disrupt the scheme. You can't have that and we draft too many of those guys. We might have done something similar along the OL with our interior lineman but we will need to see who that plays out.

Smith is a good guy I think but he doesn't seem to fit and that's not his fault. That's the teams fault because it was all there on tape, before we ever drafted him.

Excellent response! This franchise under the Jones Family has always coveted the elite athletes. Problem is, they need football players not track stars. Jaylon is a poor fit and he most likely will get release at some point down the line. Team really has to not only upgrade him but the depth within the whole positional grouping.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,973
Reaction score
64,439
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I have no idea what you could be watching. Regardless of what other needs there may be, Jaylon is the poster child for Un-Meritocracy. He definitely shouldn't be a starter. Probably shouldn't even see the field unless you used him on special teams. His continuing to start when the film clearly shows how bad he is a terrible message to everyone else on the team.

That is only true is they have a clearly better option to replace him.

A new coaching staff has to give some players a chance to improve, especially when there are no obvious replacements.

Some players take time to adapt to a new scheme.

I'm not saying that Jaylon will get better but it does happen with players in new schemes.

Playing him this season gives them a complete picture of him and helps them makes decisions after the season such as drafting a LB early, etc..
 

blumayne38

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,702
Reaction score
2,496
When we talk about issues on the defensive side of the ball, Jaylon Smith's name comes up first, the same can be said about Connor Williams. Both are former 2nd rd picks that haven't lived up to their draft slots.

No team can have elite, all-pro players at every position, but Jaylon is being paid like one and Connor Williams contract is set to expire after next season. It is also my understanding that their is an out of Jaylon's contract around the same time. Are they apart of the team's future core?

How much better would the team improve if they upgraded both spots? I understand there are more immediate needs to address, but each unit is arguably being held back by these two starters.
I think in a way. Those two picks are making or breaking us. Jaylon especially.
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,354
Reaction score
8,616
That is only true is they have a clearly better option to replace him.

A new coaching staff has to give some players a chance to improve, especially when there are no obvious replacements.

Some players take time to adapt to a new scheme.

I'm not saying that Jaylon will get better but it does happen with players in new schemes.

Playing him this season gives them a complete picture of him and helps them makes decisions after the season such as drafting a LB early, etc..

That could happen but I am of the opinion that replacing him with anyone is a net positive. I see him as a clear liability so regardless of options i would be cutting his playing time and preparing to move on from the player.
 

Tussinman

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,259
Reaction score
3,908
Ranked #2 in NFL Tackles.

Not bad for being a "stupid" player.
To be fair thats like bragging about Winston having 5000 yards last year while completely ignoring sacks, hits, fumbles, interceptions.

Was Winston a stupid player last year ? He couldn't be because according to your logic since he was #1 in yards and #2 in touchdowns. Guess how many games he's started this year ?
 

Tussinman

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,259
Reaction score
3,908
Maybe Connor's overall body of work could be ok, but pretty much every single time when people diagnose what happened on a horrible play that cost a game, Connor Williams has consistently been apart of a major screw up or just getting blown up. The hate isn't unwarranted. Really doubt he'll get a 2nd contract here. Probably needs a change of scenery and maybe a team that believes in him at tackle.
Wasn't a fan of his draft profile either. It was "incredible freshman year, slight drop off sophmore year, and injured junior year. If he can switch positions and if he can stay healthy and if he can play at his freshman level then he should be a good starter".

That's alot of "ifs" for a top 50 pick. Also 4 knee surgeries in 3 years is concerning for a position that's built on longevity.

Williams hate is a combination of everything. When people look at him there reminded of 1. How much of a dissapointment UT football has been at the college and NFL level 2. The demise of the great wall of Dallas and 3. How medicore the cowboys have been in the 2nd round of the draft in modern era
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,354
Reaction score
8,616
So you are saying Jaylon is a bigger problem then the fact we have no defensive tackles or safeties? You are also saying we should keep Sean Lee, LVE, and Joe Thomas. You do realize Jaylon was moved back to middle linebacker because LVE was injured. You do realize that LVE is still only playing half the snaps, Lee just played a whopping 13 snaps last game and Thomas did not get in the game. Before you crap on the best linebacker on the team please come with a plan because the glass brothers are not it.

Yes. Other teams seek him out to exploit.

As i said, regardless of whatever other needs this team has, I view him as the single biggest liability on the the field.
Even if we there were no other options, it wouldn't change that he is bad. Lee & LVE are both much better than him when healthy. There are young guys that deserve a shot to see what they can do.
His only value is helping you lose games this year. Otherwise we should be cutting his playing time & preparing to move on.
 

cern

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,900
Reaction score
21,050
neither has had a lot of help from their teammates on offense or defense. the entire ol has looked bad at times due to injuries. same for the defense.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,078
Reaction score
20,274
Crawford is terrible but his contract is peanuts and we can dump him without any cap repercussions. We are stuck with Zeke and Amari's contracts, however, which eat up huge chunks of cap space on a 2-7 team desperate for talent.
Yeah. But there is NO REASON to keep Crawford and he is still here.
 

Cowboyny

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,934
Reaction score
19,121
That is only true is they have a clearly better option to replace him.

A new coaching staff has to give some players a chance to improve, especially when there are no obvious replacements.

Some players take time to adapt to a new scheme.

I'm not saying that Jaylon will get better but it does happen with players in new schemes.

Playing him this season gives them a complete picture of him and helps them makes decisions after the season such as drafting a LB early, etc..

MM knew he had to rebuild both the defensive and special team units when he decided to take the job. There was going to be growing pains learning a new scheme without much of an off-season. Right now they are in a stage of evaluating which holdover players are apart of their long-term future and ones they need to replace. If they (coaches) determine Jaylon needs to go, they will need to convince Jerry & his son that it's the best move for success.
 

lockster

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
784
Jaylon Smith is the least of our problems on defense. The team needs another corner, a safety and two defensive tackles. Also you have to pray that Gregory stays out of trouble and LVE does not suffer another injury. If that happens then you can talk to me about Jaylon being the problem. You can argue with the exception of DLaw he is the most reliable player on the defense.

Conner Williams has been a solid 3rd year guard. He is a second round pick and is starting guard in the NFL. He will get a second contract somewhere. He is not a problem.
Jaylon is the worst player on defense. The worst. Worst.
 

Whyjerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,159
Reaction score
25,019
When we talk about issues on the defensive side of the ball, Jaylon Smith's name comes up first, the same can be said about Connor Williams. Both are former 2nd rd picks that haven't lived up to their draft slots.

No team can have elite, all-pro players at every position, but Jaylon is being paid like one and Connor Williams contract is set to expire after next season. It is also my understanding that their is an out of Jaylon's contract around the same time. Are they apart of the team's future core?

How much better would the team improve if they upgraded both spots? I understand there are more immediate needs to address, but each unit is arguably being held back by these two starters.

The Dallas second rounders have been a wasteland.
 
Top