Jenkins, Carr, Claiborne

[ndanger]

good point sir, good catch.

I won't hold it against you. You are obviously not cyber-related...obviously.

 

[ShiningStar]

I won't hold it against you. You are obviously not cyber-related...obviously.

nooooo and i thank you for your consideration. I just cant undertand what he meant by that comment.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Yes.

And then you watched them make absolutely no impact whatsoever in the games because the Eagles front seven had so many issues.

The same thing will happen here unless we have guys like Lissemore, Hatcher, Carter and Spencer step up.

Cornerbacks aren't impact players. They don't make the players in front of them better. Never have. Never will.

What?

Good corners allow a defense the flexibility to leave them on islands, walk extra men up to generate more pass rush, let's you comfortably leave 8 and 9 guys in the box to stuff the run, and let's your coordinator call his game without having to protect suspect corners by having to allocate resources like constant safety help and bracket coverages.

Ask Rex Ryan how important good corners are because without them they would have virtually no pass rush. But their greatest impact is on the running game.

That was a very silly statement.

 

[a_minimalist]

comparing one teams secondary to another is a useless argument. no 1 player is alike, not to mention no one defensive coordinator is alike.

 

[Apollo Creed]

This place is so full of football ignorance it makes me feel like I'm losing my mind.

The Ryans run the same scheme and virtually the same D. And when someone stupidly suggests 'good corners dont help you' and you provide empirical evidence refuting that claim - your logic and evidence is welcomed by more ignorance.

 

[ShiningStar]

This place is so full of football ignorance it makes me feel like I'm losing my mind.

The Ryans run the same scheme and virtually the same D. And when someone stupidly suggests 'good corners dont help you' and you provide empirical evidence refuting that claim - your logic and evidence is welcomed by more ignorance.

the also feel teh right players can help make a scheme better or allow for more. I think thats the real reason Clairborne was brought in, hes going to alter the defense more so than Barron would have. If Barrron was the target. But from a defensive perspective our CBs are going to give a different feel each time they are paired up or on the field. Im hoping this sparks Scandrick to get on board and just be better.

 

[Apollo Creed]

CB is unanimously the 3rd and 4th more valuable position on every teams board.

QB, LT, Pass Rusher, then Corner. 2-4 are interchangeable depending on the staff, scheme, etc.

Guess all 32 teams in the NFL should listen to all you experts and put CB below 3-4 DE and OG on their charts.

 

[SB6]

people thought Patrick Peterson is better than Claiborne but if not for returns he struggled most of the year
Maybe Claiborne will not quite be Deion Sanders this year? Jenkins can be very solid and can be very sloppy so it is hard to predict how he perform this season
Carr is solid and capable but it takes a team effort as seen by lack of safety in teams like Dallas and Green Bay

Maybe they will be very dynamic and maybe they won't
I hope they are great but nobody knows and then of course last year all 3 starting corners went down at times.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

When the improved secondary play actually does help to improve the overall defense this year you're probably not going to be able to remind Risen about that because he'll be one of those guys who mysteriously disappears from the forums.

 

[Galian Beast]

And also had proven themselves more as well, though...more than Jenkins and Claiborne, anyway.

And as I have regularly read on this site about RG3, Claiborne hasn't even taken a snap yet lol...so--like the Eagles last year--making claims like they're like the Big Three of the Miami Heat and that "every QB in the league (will) worry" about playing the Cowboys miiiiiiight be a little premature lol ...

And, yes, I said the same thing last year when fans were claiming (literally) that there might not be a WR unit in the league that could match up with the Eagles' secondary.

They ended up #24 in terms of TDs given up, #17 in terms of INTs and #19 in terms of opponent QB rating. Only so much of that is bad fit to scheme.

But, yeah, Jenkins, Carr and Claiborne definitely have the potential to be a MASSIVE upgrade upgrade to what you had last year...but considering what you had last year, part of that almost goes without saying.

Playing well in the past doesn't mean that you'll play well in the future. I'd much rather get a young player just entering their prime, than a guy who is in their fourth contract, and is in steady decline.

Samuel who was traded is 31, Nnamdi is turning 31. Cromartie is 26. Mike Jenkins is our oldest corner at 27.

These guys are on the upside of their careers.

 

[a_minimalist]

If a CB isn't a valuable position, why is it that, almost unanimously, it is considered to be the hardest position after QB to play in the NFL?

 

[Risen Star]

If a CB isn't a valuable position, why is it that, almost unanimously, it is considered to be the hardest position after QB to play in the NFL?

The hardest position to play. And you just answered your own question.

It is impossible for any cornerback to cover these all world WRs well enough to keep points off the board on a regular basis without a lot of help from the players in front of them. QBs are too good. WRs are too athletic. A perfectly thrown ball to a well run route is a completion far more times than not. You're reacting as a CB. Anytime you react you are a step slow.

It's the single hardest position to play in all of sports, IMO. Even the best, like Nnamdi, look mediocre when the talent around them isn't there.

You plug in a DeMarcus Ware and the attention he attracts and the havoc he creates makes everyone better. You plug in a Nnamdi Asomugha or a Brandon Carr or even a Morris Claiborne and you don't get the same type of impact. In fact, you get none. They are impactful only when the rest of the defense in humming. That's when they can make plays and fanboys can worship their posters. But they are never the facilitators of that success.

So in this day and age of the salary cap and limited funds, you spend your resources on the impact players, where you'll get the most bang for your buck.

This lesson brought to you by the letters "D" and "L".

 

[a_minimalist]

The hardest position to play. And you just answered your own question.

It is impossible for any cornerback to cover these all world WRs well enough to keep points off the board on a regular basis without a lot of help from the players in front of them. QBs are too good. WRs are too athletic. A perfectly thrown ball to a well run route is a completion far more times than not. You're reacting as a CB. Anytime you react you are a step slow.

It's the single hardest position to play in all of sports, IMO. Even the best, like Nnamdi, look mediocre when the talent around them isn't there.

You plug in a DeMarcus Ware and the attention he attracts and the havoc he creates makes everyone better. You plug in a Nnamdi Asomugha or a Brandon Carr or even a Morris Claiborne and you don't get the same type of impact. In fact, you get none. They are impactful only when the rest of the defense in humming. That's when they can make plays and fanboys can worship their posters. But they are never the facilitators of that success.

So in this day and age of the salary cap and limited funds, you spend your resources on the impact players, where you'll get the most bang for your buck.

This lesson brought to you by the letters "D" and "L".

I think those are all fair points and make a ton of sense. It's hard to disagree with any of that. I think you might be assuming that we give up on the DL though. If we had Jenkins, we could spend a lot less time looking for talent in the secondary and really focus on the pass rush. I in no way mean that we depend on our secondary only. I simply like the idea of having those 3 back there doing their thing.

 

[Romo2Bryant4Six]

I love that everyone has already forgotten about the guy we gave 30 mil to last year.

You mean Mario Chalmers?

 

[a_minimalist]

You mean Mario Chalmers?

that was good!

 

[DanTanna]

So which one of their mom's did Delonte West pork?

 

[Fredd]

The hardest position to play. And you just answered your own question.

It is impossible for any cornerback to cover these all world WRs well enough to keep points off the board on a regular basis without a lot of help from the players in front of them. QBs are too good. WRs are too athletic. A perfectly thrown ball to a well run route is a completion far more times than not. You're reacting as a CB. Anytime you react you are a step slow.

It's the single hardest position to play in all of sports, IMO. Even the best, like Nnamdi, look mediocre when the talent around them isn't there.

You plug in a DeMarcus Ware and the attention he attracts and the havoc he creates makes everyone better. You plug in a Nnamdi Asomugha or a Brandon Carr or even a Morris Claiborne and you don't get the same type of impact. In fact, you get none. They are impactful only when the rest of the defense in humming. That's when they can make plays and fanboys can worship their posters. But they are never the facilitators of that success.

So in this day and age of the salary cap and limited funds, you spend your resources on the impact players, where you'll get the most bang for your buck.

This lesson brought to you by the letters "D" and "L".

sounds more like the lesson in this post was brought to you by the letters "B" and "S"

The CB position BECAUSE it is more of a 1-on-1 position makes it that much more important. Sure, they are only as good as the front 7 in front of them, and also the safety covering over the top...if you buy that, then you must buy that a QB is only as good as his OLine...the punter is only as good as his blockers up front...the RB is only as good as his lead blocker...you can make that designation for any position. But, to say CB's have no impact is ridiculous

Deion and his shutting down one side of the field says hello, btw...

 

[5Stars]

Yes.

And then you watched them make absolutely no impact whatsoever in the games because the Eagles front seven had so many issues.

The same thing will happen here unless we have guys like Lissemore, Hatcher, Carter and Spencer step up.

Cornerbacks aren't impact players. They don't make the players in front of them better. Never have. Never will.

OMG!

Oh well, stupid is as what stupid does.

Falling Star fails again...


Edit: Can we send Falling Star to the next sponsored Witten football camp?

 

[Future]

Wasn't the same thing basically said about the Eagles' secondary last year?

The Cowboys secondary isn't all guys over 30 though...

Not going to happen with us overpaying Scandrick and Carr, and drafting Claiborne.

Not necessarily. Scandrick can be released, without much penalty, IIRC. And don't forget that the likes of Bigg, Columbo, and Barber come off the books after this year, saving 20 mill or so. We'll have the room to sign him.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yes.

And then you watched them make absolutely no impact whatsoever in the games because the Eagles front seven had so many issues.

The same thing will happen here unless we have guys like Lissemore, Hatcher, Carter and Spencer step up.

Cornerbacks aren't impact players. They don't make the players in front of them better. Never have. Never will.

We know what you're trying to say, but far too often you cross the line into insanity.