Jerry comments

[RainMan]

I look at Wades' time here and I don't see him being anything other than what he is,a good coordinator but a lousy head coach.I see a likeable man that isn't cut out to be a great head coach.I look at the 2nd half collapse in 2007 to the Giants followed by the drubbing in 2008 to the Eagles and now the loss today as his body of work.If two of those losses weren't blowouts I may be a little more receptive when it comes to Wade.Fair or not the buck stops with the HC who happens to be Wade Phillips.

Craig

I won't lie, it makes for a good argument to fire Wade that the last three seasons ended in disappointing losses. And since he's never won the big game, it has to be a sign he can't win it all, right?

Where I stop buying that argument, however, is that it can be applied to about 80 percent of the rest of the coaches in this league. Fisher's team gets humiliated in the playoffs last year and they follow that up by starting out 0-6 this year. Fox has done very little since taking his team to the Super Bowl about five years ago. Same for Lovie. Reid's season always ends in a disappointing loss.

To spin this forward, who do you get? Gruden -- the guy whom Tampa fired? Dungy -- the guy who could only milk one Super Bowl out of perhaps the best QB of our generation?

We also have different definitions of "lousy." Lousy, to me, is not two division titles and two second-round playoff appearances in three years. Lousy, to me, is Dave Campo.

That's semantics, you might say. But I disagree. The fact Wade can be viewed as a lousy head coach tells me just how out of whack expectations can be sometimes. This was a team that entered the season with question marks all over the place.

We had no depth at corner. No depth at the oline. No top-flight receiver. A quarterback that couldn't win in December. No pass rush threat opposite Ware. We then proceed to have a pretty darn good season.

Is it good enough? Absolutely not. I'll never be "satisfied" with an 11-5, non-Super Bowl winning season. But I don't believe you go firing your head coach every time you don't have a satisfactory (ie, Super Bowl winning) season. We'd have cycled through about 45 head coaches over the course of our history if that were the case.

 

[dadymat]

I won't lie, it makes for a good argument to fire Wade that the last three seasons ended in disappointing losses. And since he's never won the big game, it has to be a sign he can't win it all, right?

Where I stop buying that argument, however, is that it can be applied to about 80 percent of the rest of the coaches in this league. Fisher's team gets humiliated in the playoffs last year and they follow that up by starting out 0-6 this year. Fox has done very little since taking his team to the Super Bowl about five years ago. Same for Lovie. Reid's season always ends in a disappointing loss.

To spin this forward, who do you get? Gruden -- the guy whom Tampa fired? Dungy -- the guy who could only milk one Super Bowl out of perhaps the best QB of our generation?

We also have different definitions of "lousy." Lousy, to me, is not two division titles and two second-round playoff appearances in three years. Lousy, to me, is Dave Campo.

That's semantics, you might say. But I disagree. The fact Wade can be viewed as a lousy head coach tells me just how out of whack expectations can be sometimes. This was a team that entered the season with question marks all over the place.

We had no depth at corner. No depth at the oline. No top-flight receiver. A quarterback that couldn't win in December. No pass rush threat opposite Ware. We then proceed to have a pretty darn good season.

Is it good enough? Absolutely not. I'll never be "satisfied" with an 11-5, non-Super Bowl winning season. But I don't believe you go firing your head coach every time you don't have a satisfactory (ie, Super Bowl winning) season. We'd have cycled through about 45 head coaches over the course of our history if that were the case.

the most sensible post ive read since the game ended

http://i102.***BLOCKED***/albums/m109/dadymat/TuxedoClapping.gif

 

[neosapien23]

I blame Garret more than I do wade. Jerry Jones is too meddling and he never gave Philips a chance to run this team they way a HC should. I seriously doubt Garret and Houck would have jobs right now if Philips had his way. I also doubt Williams would be starting over Ogltree and Crayton if the GM wasn't forcing him into the line up. arret is the one who needs to go. God, please let some team be stupid enough to hire him as a HC this season.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Not every one "Believed" after beating the Eagles. A team who many claimed are on their way down any way. We faced true competition today. We by all accounts should have played better. I'm not pointing the finger at Phillips, but he is the head of the animal.

Well, then who are you pointing the finger at?

Garrett still frustrates me too often. The fake dive into a pitch play to Marion in the second half when we were driving and gaining some momentum and could've brought the game to 1 score really gets me.

I understand some will say 'well, if the play works you say he's a genius', but I don't think that's the case. We were doing just fine running the ball off tackle that entire drive and then all the sudden he wants to get cute on a play that isn't best designed for Marion.

And I like Marion, but I wouldn't mind seeing us make a good trade for him and we could just tell teams 'Felix is our main guy and we like Choice, so we have no room for Marion' and maybe we get a 2nd round pick for him. I think Felix is far too big of a threat to not be getting 15-20 touches a game and I think Choice is too good to not be getting more touches, especially in short yardage. Plus, we could use a 2nd rounder to fill some positions like O-Line, WR or safety.

But, we probably won't even do that.

I have had 3 issues with the team throughout the season...inconsistent QB, lack of playmaking ability from the safeties, and an inconsistent O-Coordinator. I think Romo can win the team a Lombardi and while we could really use a playmaker at safety...we saw major improvement there.

But, the inconsistent O-Coordinator still remains and I don't know if he'll ever get above that.

I don't think Wade is the issue unless you want an offensive minded head coach...but you'd better find a good D-Coordinator as well.




YAKUZA

 

[tyke1doe]

Or keeping inept puppets and frankenstein staffs that are forced upon them by management, becuase that has worked so well for the Cowboys.

:laugh2:

 

[windward]

As much criticism as Wade gets, has anyone really done an analysis of why he was 0-4 in the playoff stints with his other teams pre-Dallas?

I know in Buffalo he should have beat the Titans if not for the miracle play.

What about the other three times?

The defense, which is Wade's forte, doesn't seem to be problematic to me right now. It's the offense that seems to be bringing Wade down.

I think Reeves was an attempt to help, and was sought due to Wade, and I'm beginning to believe it was more Garrett than Jones who didn't want him here.

In 1993 The Broncos got flat out beat by the Raiders, a team that took the AFC Champ Bills to the limit.

In 1998 The Bills were not as good as the Dolphins.

Everybody knows about the Music City Forward Pass and his record here.

 

[tyke1doe]

I won't lie, it makes for a good argument to fire Wade that the last three seasons ended in disappointing losses. And since he's never won the big game, it has to be a sign he can't win it all, right?

Where I stop buying that argument, however, is that it can be applied to about 80 percent of the rest of the coaches in this league. Fisher's team gets humiliated in the playoffs last year and they follow that up by starting out 0-6 this year. Fox has done very little since taking his team to the Super Bowl about five years ago. Same for Lovie. Reid's season always ends in a disappointing loss.

To spin this forward, who do you get? Gruden -- the guy whom Tampa fired? Dungy -- the guy who could only milk one Super Bowl out of perhaps the best QB of our generation?

We also have different definitions of "lousy." Lousy, to me, is not two division titles and two second-round playoff appearances in three years. Lousy, to me, is Dave Campo.

That's semantics, you might say. But I disagree. The fact Wade can be viewed as a lousy head coach tells me just how out of whack expectations can be sometimes. This was a team that entered the season with question marks all over the place.

We had no depth at corner. No depth at the oline. No top-flight receiver. A quarterback that couldn't win in December. No pass rush threat opposite Ware. We then proceed to have a pretty darn good season.

Is it good enough? Absolutely not. I'll never be "satisfied" with an 11-5, non-Super Bowl winning season. But I don't believe you go firing your head coach every time you don't have a satisfactory (ie, Super Bowl winning) season. We'd have cycled through about 45 head coaches over the course of our history if that were the case.

But ... but ... but ... we're the Cowboys.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Well, then who are you pointing the finger at?

Garrett still frustrates me too often. The fake dive into a pitch play to Marion in the second half when we were driving and gaining some momentum and could've brought the game to 1 score really gets me.

I understand some will say 'well, if the play works you say he's a genius', but I don't think that's the case. We were doing just fine running the ball off tackle that entire drive and then all the sudden he wants to get cute on a play that isn't best designed for Marion.

And I like Marion, but I wouldn't mind seeing us make a good trade for him and we could just tell teams 'Felix is our main guy and we like Choice, so we have no room for Marion' and maybe we get a 2nd round pick for him. I think Felix is far too big of a threat to not be getting 15-20 touches a game and I think Choice is too good to not be getting more touches, especially in short yardage. Plus, we could use a 2nd rounder to fill some positions like O-Line, WR or safety.

But, we probably won't even do that.

I have had 3 issues with the team throughout the season...inconsistent QB, lack of playmaking ability from the safeties, and an inconsistent O-Coordinator. I think Romo can win the team a Lombardi and while we could really use a playmaker at safety...we saw major improvement there.

But, the inconsistent O-Coordinator still remains and I don't know if he'll ever get above that.

I don't think Wade is the issue unless you want an offensive minded head coach...but you'd better find a good D-Coordinator as well.




YAKUZA

It's against the law to point a finger at Jones.

 

[RainMan]

Well, then who are you pointing the finger at?

Garrett still frustrates me too often. The fake dive into a pitch play to Marion in the second half when we were driving and gaining some momentum and could've brought the game to 1 score really gets me.

I understand some will say 'well, if the play works you say he's a genius', but I don't think that's the case. We were doing just fine running the ball off tackle that entire drive and then all the sudden he wants to get cute on a play that isn't best designed for Marion.

That toss did drive me nuts. I thought we had already exhaused Marion's usefulness on the ground game with the six-yard gainer he had up the middle moments earlier. When Marion was back on the field for the toss play, prior to the snap I told my friend, 'Look, we'll go to Marion again, get stuffed and have the drive's momentum end.' Never did I imagine a six-yard loss. That's not to puff my chest out and say I was right, but to illustrate how little confidence I -- and I think most of us -- have in Marion these days.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

That toss did drive me nuts. I thought we had already exhaused Marion's usefulness on the ground game with the six-yard gainer he had up the middle moments earlier. When Marion was back on the field for the toss play, prior to the snap I told my friend, 'Look, we'll go to Marion again, get stuffed and have the drive's momentum end.' Never did I imagine a six-yard loss. That's not to puff my chest out and say I was right, but to illustrate how little confidence I -- and I think most of us -- have in Marion these days.

The defense bit on it once. What amused me was that Garrett thought they would bite twice.

 

[craig71]

I won't lie, it makes for a good argument to fire Wade that the last three seasons ended in disappointing losses. And since he's never won the big game, it has to be a sign he can't win it all, right?

Where I stop buying that argument, however, is that it can be applied to about 80 percent of the rest of the coaches in this league. Fisher's team gets humiliated in the playoffs last year and they follow that up by starting out 0-6 this year. Fox has done very little since taking his team to the Super Bowl about five years ago. Same for Lovie. Reid's season always ends in a disappointing loss.

To spin this forward, who do you get? Gruden -- the guy whom Tampa fired? Dungy -- the guy who could only milk one Super Bowl out of perhaps the best QB of our generation?

We also have different definitions of "lousy." Lousy, to me, is not two division titles and two second-round playoff appearances in three years. Lousy, to me, is Dave Campo.

That's semantics, you might say. But I disagree. The fact Wade can be viewed as a lousy head coach tells me just how out of whack expectations can be sometimes. This was a team that entered the season with question marks all over the place.

We had no depth at corner. No depth at the oline. No top-flight receiver. A quarterback that couldn't win in December. No pass rush threat opposite Ware. We then proceed to have a pretty darn good season.

Is it good enough? Absolutely not. I'll never be "satisfied" with an 11-5, non-Super Bowl winning season. But I don't believe you go firing your head coach every time you don't have a satisfactory (ie, Super Bowl winning) season. We'd have cycled through about 45 head coaches over the course of our history if that were the case.

I don't know if Wade can win the big game or not,I'm of the opinion that he can't.Is that opinion right? Heck if I know.I guess the way I look at Wade is that if he hasn't hoisted the Lombardi by now he never will.Is that to say that Wade can't win a Lombardi? No it's not,but the odds of it happening have to be mighty slim.

I also think that Dallas has a tradition of winning that most other franchises only dream about.I think a person can rationalize that 80% of the league is in the same boat as Dallas,but then again 80% of the league doesn't have the tradition of Dallas Cowboys' Football.Is expecting a championship every year realistic? No. However,I don't expect a Dallas Cowboys' team to be humiliated three years running in games that are of extreme importance.

Jeff Fisher is an interesting coach who does more with less than many other coaches out there.I don't think Wade would have any success with some of the teams that the Titans have fielded in the past.On the otherhand I don't believe Fisher would have had any success with some of the teams that Wade has fielded.It's hard to project how a coach will interact with a team until they are thrown to the wolves.Sometimes a coach isn't what they appear to be until the bullets start flying.Kinda llike Any Reid,a regular season genius that turns into an idiot in the championship game or super bowl game.I wonder if Andy and Jason are related? Both are considered geniuses one day and idiots the next by their respective teams fans.

I don't think a retread is the answer either for this team.Although I could be wrong.I don't believe that there has ever been a coach to win a Lombardi with more than one franchise.I think Cowher,Gruden and whatever other retreads out there are just what they are,retreads.

I think that every team in the league has issues concerning depth in the salary cap era.Dallas is in the same boat for sure in that department as the rest of the league.

I don't think you need to change coaches after every season.I do think that three years is enough of a time frame to evaluate where you are with a head coach though.If the evaluatons at years end show a marked improvement you might want to retain the coaches services.On the otherhand if those evaluations don't show a marked improvement I think you need to send the coach down the road.What parameters need to be established in order to evaluate a head coach? I think that's up to ownership and their expectations of what they want to see from their team.If ownership is content with blow out losses in pivotal games so be it,if they aren't the coach gets sent packing.Simple as that.Although it isn't near that easy in an actual situation it sure sounds easy when your not the one that has to make the decision or pay for the decision.

I also think that "lousy" was a bad word choice for Wade the head coach.I think Wade is an average head coach that could be a good head coach in the right situation.I just don't think that sitaution exists in Dallas unless some changes are made to reinforce Wade's power base.


Craig

 

[RainMan]

I don't know if Wade can win the big game or not,I'm of the opinion that he can't.Is that opinion right? Heck if I know.I guess the way I look at Wade is that if he hasn't hoisted the Lombardi by now he never will.Is that to say that Wade can't win a Lombardi? No it's not,but the odds of it happening have to be mighty slim.

I also think that Dallas has a tradition of winning that most other franchises only dream about.I think a person can rationalize that 80% of the league is in the same boat as Dallas,but then again 80% of the league doesn't have the tradition of Dallas Cowboys' Football.Is expecting a championship every year realistic? No. However,I don't expect a Dallas Cowboys' team to be humiliated three years running in games that are of extreme importance.

Jeff Fisher is an interesting coach who does more with less than many other coaches out there.I don't think Wade would have any success with some of the teams that the Titans have fielded in the past.On the otherhand I don't believe Fisher would have had any success with some of the teams that Wade has fielded.It's hard to project how a coach will interact with a team until they are thrown to the wolves.Sometimes a coach isn't what they appear to be until the bullets start flying.Kinda llike Any Reid,a regular season genius that turns into an idiot in the championship game or super bowl game.I wonder if Andy and Jason are related? Both are considered geniuses one day and idiots the next by their respective teams fans.

I don't think a retread is the answer either for this team.Although I could be wrong.I don't believe that there has ever been a coach to win a Lombardi with more than one franchise.I think Cowher,Gruden and whatever other retreads out there are just what they are,retreads.

I think that every team in the league has issues concerning depth in the salary cap era.Dallas is in the same boat for sure in that department as the rest of the league.

I don't think you need to change coaches after every season.I do think that three years is enough of a time frame to evaluate where you are with a head coach though.If the evaluatons at years end show a marked improvement you might want to retain the coaches services.On the otherhand if those evaluations don't show a marked improvement I think you need to send the coach down the road.What parameters need to be established in order to evaluate a head coach? I think that's up to ownership and their expectations of what they want to see from their team.If ownership is content with blow out losses in pivotal games so be it,if they aren't the coach gets sent packing.Simple as that.Although it isn't near that easy in an actual situation it sure sounds easy when your not the one that has to make the decision or pay for the decision.

I also think that "lousy" was a bad word choice for Wade the head coach.I think Wade is an average head coach that could be a good head coach in the right situation.I just don't think that sitaution exists in Dallas unless some changes are made to reinforce Wade's power base.


Craig

Good stuff, Craig. I think we're slightly sitting on different sides of the aisle here, but I think we both ultimately share many of the same concerns, questions and worries.

I do agree Dallas is a special team and I never want that not to be the case. Sometimes I worry we become victims of our own (past) success though ... just look at the folks that are ready to throw Romo overboard with a single bad game. It's hard enough to find a good QB/HC combo in this league, much less when you throw them in this pressure cooker. It is what it is, though.

I was eager and willing to fire Wade at the end of last season. I also wanted him fired midway through that Kansas City game this year. Seeing the team rebound that day and go on to have a pretty nice season changed my views. I feel like what we're doing is working for the most part, and that it has the "feel" of being ready and able to be taken to the next level. Granted, I could be wrong.

I'd be a liar if I said Wade's history of playoff failure didn't worry me. We could win a Super Bowl next year, and he still wouldn't surpass the .500 mark for career playoff winning percentage.

He's not the prototypical head coach, but then we don't have the prototypical organization as far as allowing head coaches to thrive. In a weird way, I can't help but think if Wade "works" with the way we do things.

As for his three years here, I find it hard to stack the three years up and grade them. Year One was still Parcells' team and I felt like Wade just rode the coat tails of "not being mean-*** Parcells." Year Two was an utter disaster, but looking back, I blame Jerry as much as I do Wade. Jerry handed him a cancerous locker room and said, 'Go make this work.' This year represented an uptick in which I thought Wade genuinely won with his guys and by doing things his way. I think that's why even though this technically represents little to no improvement from Year One, I do view it in a much different light.

I like what we're doing and where the team seems headed. But I'll agree -- we have a coach who never has shown signs of being able to win the big game, and perhaps never will.

 

[craig71]

Good stuff, Craig. I think we're slightly sitting on different sides of the aisle here, but I think we both ultimately share many of the same concerns, questions and worries.

I do agree Dallas is a special team and I never want that not to be the case. Sometimes I worry we become victims of our own (past) success though ... just look at the folks that are ready to throw Romo overboard with a single bad game. It's hard enough to find a good QB/HC combo in this league, much less when you throw them in this pressure cooker. It is what it is, though.

I was eager and willing to fire Wade at the end of last season. I also wanted him fired midway through that Kansas City game this year. Seeing the team rebound that day and go on to have a pretty nice season changed my views. I feel like what we're doing is working for the most part, and that it has the "feel" of being ready and able to be taken to the next level. Granted, I could be wrong.

I'd be a liar if I said Wade's history of playoff failure didn't worry me. We could win a Super Bowl next year, and he still wouldn't surpass the .500 mark for career playoff winning percentage.

He's not the prototypical head coach, but then we don't have the prototypical organization as far as allowing head coaches to thrive. In a weird way, I can't help but think if Wade "works" with the way we do things.

As for his three years here, I find it hard to stack the three years up and grade them. Year One was still Parcells' team and I felt like Wade just rode the coat tails of "not being mean-*** Parcells." Year Two was an utter disaster, but looking back, I blame Jerry as much as I do Wade. Jerry handed him a cancerous locker room and said, 'Go make this work.' This year represented an uptick in which I thought Wade genuinely won with his guys and by doing things his way. I think that's why even though this technically represents little to no improvement from Year One, I do view it in a much different light.

I like what we're doing and where the team seems headed. But I'll agree -- we have a coach who never has shown signs of being able to win the big game, and perhaps never will.

The more I think about it I don't think there is a right answer.A few random thoughts that don't make a bunch of sense one way or another.

Fire Wade and you lose the defensive coordinator.Wade does know defense regardless of my opinion of his HC style.You can't really give him a long term extension either based off of his first three years either.

Fire Garrett and you lose the offensive coordinator.Garrett makes mistakes but Romo played better than I expected after getting off to a rocky start and I think Garrett has something to do with that.That and with the amount of yards they racked the points have to eventually come.

Fire both Wade and Garrett.I don't think that is an option,the vacuum left by the explosion would wreck any chemistry that was developed during this year.That move in itself could set this team back several years.

I don't think that Jerry can keep both Wade and Jason and expect success.I think Jason undermines Wade to a point and I also think that Wade undermines Jason at times as well.Maybe Jerry can have a set down with both of them and come to some sort of agreement.I'm thinking part of the problem with this team is a cultural problem.I think the offensive and defensive coaches philosophies on team management may be clashing abit.

I can think of some other rational and irrational thoughts that are neither right or wrong as well.Hopefully this situation will be worked out in the coming weeks for the betterment of the team.

Craig

 

[ETex]

I think three years of Wade is enough,I just don't see Wade as the answer.


Craig

I for one say we start over from scratch with a new quarterback, head coach, lineman, dbs...everything. Just blow the whole damn thing up.



I mean we haven't won a playoff game in like 14 years. Right?......Oh wait yeah we won one stinking playoff game; but Wade's a failure and we need a proven SB winning coach like Parcels.....Oh wait we tried that; well lets just get a coach who's proven to win in the playoffs consistently like Norv Turner...Oh wait his team just got beat by a rookie Head coach and a rookie QB.

Oh what to do?

 

[kmd24]

Garrett still frustrates me too often. The fake dive into a pitch play to Marion in the second half when we were driving and gaining some momentum and could've brought the game to 1 score really gets me.

Not that it really matters (Garrett sent in both plays afterall), but it appears that Romo audibled to the pitch. Bad choice for both, unfortunately.

 

[fan62]

Three years - you gotta be kiddin me - 3 years.
and again
Landry and Jimmy have been fired and on their way out in 3 years.
I have to cast my lot with Rainman.
This team is building and improving each season, just as they did with Jimmy Johnson. Keep it going - we will get there. Add a few stronger players in weak positions and we will get there.

 

[bysbox1]

Or keeping inept puppets and frankenstein staffs that are forced upon them by management, becuase that has worked so well for the Cowboys.

That's going to happen regardless of who is coaching, because Jerry is the GM and that's how he does things. The only way that won't happen is if Jerry fires Wade and brings in someone ala "Bill Parcells" or a Cowher.