Jerry's GM mistake with Miami

[Hostile]

The one thing I didn't like at the time and still don't...

The Fergie trade, Ferguson was respected and I think the team missed his leadership skills, I also think he'd have been a much better backup to Ratlliff.

In all the Fasano... Akin stuff, we lost little. In ferguson we lost something.

There was simply no way he was going to be back though. You have to look at the team from the business standpoint. I know that sucks, but it's the real world.

Ratliff had played great and got a new deal. That meant he was going to be the starter. Tank Johnson was cheap, young, and healthy. Fergy was more expensive, up there in age, and coming off a season ending injury. No one would have looked at the ledger cards and kept Fergy.

Akin had been horrible for us in 2007. I was shocked by the Fasano trade, a bit, but I admit I already like Bennett more and we ended up with Choice from that deal. Overall, I think we came out ahead.

 

[HanD]

I don't think that Ferguson would have been more productive than Tank. Ferguson had all of 22 tackles the entire season!

Ferg was rotated in and out on the miami line to make sure his body didn't wear down at the end of the year. when he played, he was very solid and definitely better than tank.

 

[jobberone]

Fergy would have helped shore up the run some. Ratliff did get pushed around some at times. The Fasano loss hurt the most. Curtis couldn't do his job and got McBriar hurt and cost us one game directly.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

And that's your mistake right there.

I wasn't the first person to bring up the stats. I was simply pointing out that those going by the stats were picking a guy who did nothing more than the loser we had here.

So the only mistake here was you thinking you knew me and that I go strictly by stats.

You know that's not a fair argument. Phillips' 3-4 stresses penetration from the nose tackle far more than any other 3-4 scheme.

Instead of trying to downgrade Ferguson's play which is a specious argument at best, it might be best to concentrate on the real impact of keeping Johnson over Ferguson and that comes from the personality standpoint, particularly in the locker room.

Of course now we're just going to make excuses that Ratliff got over double the tackles and nearly 8 times as many sacks because Wades scheme is different.

So now we don't give Ratliff any credit for what he accomplished?

As for the personality standpoint that is totally a good point. I am not a Tank fan. I liked listening to Fergie talk when they'd interview him and he seemed like a really good dude.

However talking and smiling doesn't translate into better play on the field. Tank sucked this year, and he may or may not be a locker room issue, I can't say 100% for sure either way cause I'm not in there with them, but Fergie always seemed like a good guy and he didn't do anymore in Miami than he would have done here and, honestly, unless we played Ratliff a lot more at end there is no way he'd have even played as much here as he did in Miami cause Ratliff was going to start here.


Given my choice, all things even salary cap wise and such, I'd take Fergie over Tank every single day of the week simply because I like Fergie better. However they have to deal with a cap situation and trading him gave them some needed cap room at the time so I don't fault the move.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Totally agree. The Fasano/Ayodele was fine with me because neither were any good and we were going to lose them for nothing in another year.

But giving away Jason Ferguson was pure stupidity. I still have no idea why we did that. He's a very good 34 NT and a great guy who was a locker room leader to boot.

If Jerry did this for some kind of salary reason, he should've asked for more... Much more. But I have a bad feeling the real reason he did it was to show the world that he could win with his project (Tank) instead of Parcells' old player.

 

[AdamJT13]

If Jerry did this for some kind of salary reason, he should've asked for more... Much more.

How much of a market is there for a $4 million 33-year-old who doesn't make big plays and is coming off an injury that cost him almost an entire season?

If Parcells wouldn't take him, we probably would have had to cut him, because we weren't going to pay him $4 million to be a backup, and probably only Parcells would pay him that much to start.

 

[HanD]

How much of a market is there for a $4 million 33-year-old who doesn't make big plays and is coming off an injury that cost him almost an entire season?

If Parcells wouldn't take him, we probably would have had to cut him, because we weren't going to pay him $4 million to be a backup, and probably only Parcells would pay him that much to start.

his season ending injury was a bicep tear. it wasn't a knee, neck or back problem that he would have difficulty coming back from. the guy was very solid at the least when he was on the field for us. i don't remember (and you would know) but i i don't think we were ever in a cap crunch this year were we? so we saved 4 mil for nothing because that 4 mil wouldn't have put us over the cap or strapped any of our other moves right? and the fact that it would have left ratliff to make plays where either canty/spears couldn't...our DL would have been much better IMO.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

How much of a market is there for a $4 million 33-year-old who doesn't make big plays and is coming off an injury that cost him almost an entire season?

If Parcells wouldn't take him, we probably would have had to cut him, because we weren't going to pay him $4 million to be a backup, and probably only Parcells would pay him that much to start.

He had that biceps tear... It's not like his knees were destroyed.

And I would have started Fergy at NT and moved Ratliff to end.

Edit, HanD's post wasn't there when I posted... Said almost the same thing.

 

[Alexander]

So now we don't give Ratliff any credit for what he accomplished?

Who on earth said that?

As for the personality standpoint that is totally a good point. I am not a Tank fan. I liked listening to Fergie talk when they'd interview him and he seemed like a really good dude.

However talking and smiling doesn't translate into better play on the field.

But griping, cursing out your teammates and getting pushed around in your final games when the rest of your team needs you to suck it up certainly doesn't.

Tank sucked this year, and he may or may not be a locker room issue, I can't say 100% for sure either way cause I'm not in there with them, but Fergie always seemed like a good guy and he didn't do anymore in Miami than he would have done here and, honestly, unless we played Ratliff a lot more at end there is no way he'd have even played as much here as he did in Miami cause Ratliff was going to start here.

So all things aside, why wouldn't Ferguson been just as reliable, if not more, as a backup? In retrospect it was a bad trade because I am sure we trusted Johnson far too much and I am positive we expected much more than we got, not just in production but attitude. I still recall talk early in camp that he might start and push Ratliff back outside.

Given my choice, all things even salary cap wise and such, I'd take Fergie over Tank every single day of the week simply because I like Fergie better. However they have to deal with a cap situation and trading him gave them some needed cap room at the time so I don't fault the move.

I really would like to see the cap difference and what we saved versus what we paid Johnson. Because if it is just a few million, we could have dumped a really useless Bobby Carpenter on Parcells and probably saved more money.

 

[AdamJT13]

his season ending injury was a bicep tear. it wasn't a knee, neck or back problem that he would have difficulty coming back from. the guy was very solid at the least when he was on the field for us. i don't remember (and you would know) but i i don't think we were ever in a cap crunch this year were we? so we saved 4 mil for nothing because that 4 mil wouldn't have put us over the cap or strapped any of our other moves right? and the fact that it would have left ratliff to make plays where either canty/spears couldn't...our DL would have been much better IMO.

You never save cap room "for nothing," because at some point, you're going to need it. What if that $4 million is the difference between having the cap room to re-sign Ware and needing to cut someone better than Ferguson (or several players) in order to re-sign Ware?

And moving Ratliff to end and putting Ferguson at nose tackle might not have been any better, and it possibly could have been worse. Ratliff likely wouldn't have been more productive as an end -- facing tackles -- than he was as a nose tackle facing centers and guards. It's more likely that he would have been less productive. And we know Spears and Canty at least as productive as Ferguson ever was. So you'd basically be trading production at nose tackle for production at end, with possibly a net loss of big plays. Plus we'd still need someone to rotate with Ferguson at nose tackle.

 

[AdamJT13]

I really would like to see the cap difference and what we saved versus what we paid Johnson. Because if it is just a few million, we could have dumped a really useless Bobby Carpenter on Parcells and probably saved more money.

Ferguson would have cost us $4 million.

We paid Johnson $825,000.

Trading Carpenter would have cost us $1.74 million.

 

[Hostile]

You never save cap room "for nothing," because at some point, you're going to need it. What if that $4 million is the difference between having the cap room to re-sign Ware and needing to cut someone better than Ferguson (or several players) in order to re-sign Ware?

And moving Ratliff to end and putting Ferguson at nose tackle might not have been any better, and it possibly could have been worse. Ratliff likely wouldn't have been more productive as an end -- facing tackles -- than he was as a nose tackle facing centers and guards. It's more likely that he would have been less productive. And we know Spears and Canty at least as productive as Ferguson ever was. So you'd basically be trading production at nose tackle for production at end, with possibly a net loss of big plays. Plus we'd still need someone to rotate with Ferguson at nose tackle.

Exactly.

 

[joseephuss]

Fergy would have helped shore up the run some. Ratliff did get pushed around some at times. The Fasano loss hurt the most. Curtis couldn't do his job and got McBriar hurt and cost us one game directly.

I don't see how keeping Fasano prevents Curtis from missing the block and McBriar getting hurt. Dallas would not have drafted Bennett if they kept Fasano. Curtis still would have been blocking on the punt team if Fasano was not traded away. It would have been the same results.

I like Ferguson, but he is not all world at this point in his career. There is no guarantee he would have been good in the locker room for Dallas. He was the starter in Miami. Would his attitude had been the same in Dallas as the back up to Ratliff? Maybe and maybe not. We really don't know. He also may not have liked playing in the Wade Phillips version of the 3-4.

Not all things are equal here. His time in Miami is different than what he would have faced as a Cowboy this year. There is no guarantee that he would have made a huge impact on or off the field for Dallas. At least not enough for Dallas to make the playoffs.

There is also the question about the long term future. I feel pretty certain that Tank will not be in Dallas. Would Fergie be kept in Dallas for next season? Will Miami keep him for next year?

I don't question either trade. I didn't at the time they were made and I don't now. Those two areas were the least of the problems in Dallas this season.

 

[Tobal]

We overpaid for Fergie, but he was a need at the time... he was good for this team great attitude. I can see the argument either way, but as was my main point if you are going to gripe about a trade to Miami this one would be the one to not like.

 

[Randy White]

I don't see how keeping Fasano prevents Curtis from missing the block and McBriar getting hurt.

I believe it was Tashard Choice who missed the block. He was inserted at left guard at last minute and he blew the assignement. Somebody posted a picture of it in here.

Dallas would not have drafted Bennett if they kept Fasano.

Dallas drafted Bennett before they traded Fasano. A more accurate statement is: Dallas might had kept Fasano had they not drafted Bennett.

 

[jterrell]

The one thing I didn't like at the time and still don't...

The Fergie trade, Ferguson was respected and I think the team missed his leadership skills, I also think he'd have been a much better backup to Ratlliff.

In all the Fasano... Akin stuff, we lost little. In ferguson we lost something.

BP signed Fergie to a deal that averaged like 8 million per year. It was the final year so he was never going to see that money.

We were going to cut him because you don't pay Fergie 7-9 mil when you have Tank Johnson as a cheap backup. Now we all know Tank sucked and was looking to leave town for free agency and a bigger payday but at the time he was looking like a very good fit who had a tremendous off-season in the weight room setting team standards for strength.

Did Miami get solid players from us? Yes they did.
Did we get cap relief from them? Yes we did.

It wasn't like we thought Fergie sucked. The year he was healthy for us he was very good. We just didn't want to pay him what he was signed for and he wasn't going to take less with BP in the league willing to pay him that 7-9 mil.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Ferguson would have cost us $4 million.

We paid Johnson $825,000.

Trading Carpenter would have cost us $1.74 million.

So basically, rounding off here, had we kept Fergie and dumped Carpenter to them instead, so that Tank wasn't getting the playing time, we'd have paid Fergie an extra 3 million dollars, plus ate another 1.74 million dollars for the trade, to get the exact same amount of production from Fergie as we got out of Tank?

An extra 4.74, approx., out of our cap right now so that we could get the same play on the field and the hope that Fergie in the locker room would have some how made it a better place?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I believe it was Tashard Choice who missed the block. He was inserted at left guard at last minute and he blew the assignement. Somebody posted a picture of it in here.



Dallas drafted Bennett before they traded Fasano. A more accurate statement is: Dallas might had kept Fasano had they not drafted Bennett.

Ummm some how I doubt that last statement is true because if I remember correctly they traded Fasano the night before they drafted Bennett so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

 

[AdamJT13]

Dallas drafted Bennett before they traded Fasano. A more accurate statement is: Dallas might had kept Fasano had they not drafted Bennett.

We traded Fasano on April 25. The draft didn't start until April 26.

 

[mmillman]

You don't pay age!