JJT: Wade Phillips living in land of gum drops and lollipops

[Hostile]

I was a pissing match between Marty and the GM (the name escapes me) and Marty lost.

I know and that is crazy. The man was 14-2 for crying out loud. Stupid decision.

It isn't dumber than letting a back to back Super Bowl winning Coach go though. I still remember where I was when I heard that. I had to pull over to the side of the road or I would have been in a wreck. My mind went blank.

 

[Hostile]

Yeah, I didn't understand that one. In fact, Marty never should've gotten the ax in D.C. years ago, but I'm glad he did. He was much better than many who followed him.

You mean any.

I respected Gibbs, but the game had passed him by. Danny is sent from heaven above. An utterly stupid man.

 

[Chuck 54]

blah blah blah blah blah

Any old-time Cowboys fans can easily recall when the Tom Landry Cowboys, who went to the playoffs 17 consequtive years, were "the team that can't win when it matters", "the team that wasn't tough enough to win the big one", "the finesse team that couldn't beat a physical team."

Yet now, Landry and those Cowboys are heroes, and people would never tolerate hearing those early remarks that actually went on for quite a few years until we finally got over the hump.

Now, I'm not even hinting at comparing Wade to Mr. Fedora himself...no way, but there is a history of teams building to playoff level and taking time to get over certain hurdles. This team still has players from those three 5-11 finishes and that decade of no playoffs. Should they do better this year? yes...they should make the playoffs and win a game, but if a team guts everything and starts over everytime they don't reach their goals, that's a sure recipe for disaster.

I like this year's team better than any team we've had back through Wade, Parcells, Campo...all the way to Switzer's winning team. I think we've improved every year under wade. Maybe this is the year we prove it; maybe not. We won't know for sure this week, but we'll have a hint. We'll know for sure in 4-5 more weeks.

 

[DFWJC]

Joe really has it out for Wade, if you have somehow not noticed yet.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Say whatever you want, Norv Turner has done a good job in San Diego. They are 10-0 in the final month under him. 10-0. And yes, they made it in at 8-8, not only due to a Denver collapse, but also due to their final month run. And once they got into the playoffs, once again, they won a playoff game.

They went further than us in year 1 - AFC Championship game
They went further than us last year - made the playoffs and won a playoff game
They have a better record than us this year

Any way you cut it Norv Turner has out performed Wade Phillips.

They've played in a horrible, horrible division as well. Do you think they'd have done what they did in our division where they don't have four gimme games a year in KC and Oakland? Until this year, even the worst team in the division was .500. Last year, their division winner was .500. That's pathetic.

But I'll give you this, Norv has done well with Rivers and the offense, and I'd have been very happy to have him here because it would've meant he'd be teaching Tony instead of Garrett.

 

[rcaldw]

blah blah blah blah blah

Any old-time Cowboys fans can easily recall when the Tom Landry Cowboys, who went to the playoffs 17 consequtive years, were "the team that can't win when it matters", "the team that wasn't tough enough to win the big one", "the finesse team that couldn't beat a physical team."

Yet now, Landry and those Cowboys are heroes, and people would never tolerate hearing those early remarks that actually went on for quite a few years until we finally got over the hump.

Now, I'm not even hinting at comparing Wade to Mr. Fedora himself...no way, but there is a history of teams building to playoff level and taking time to get over certain hurdles. This team still has players from those three 5-11 finishes and that decade of no playoffs. Should they do better this year? yes...they should make the playoffs and win a game, but if a team guts everything and starts over everytime they don't reach their goals, that's a sure recipe for disaster.

I like this year's team better than any team we've had back through Wade, Parcells, Campo...all the way to Switzer's winning team. I think we've improved every year under wade. Maybe this is the year we prove it; maybe not. We won't know for sure this week, but we'll have a hint. We'll know for sure in 4-5 more weeks.

"Next Year's Champion" was something that came out of losing CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES. We lost 2 to the Packers. We lost 1 to the Colts. CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES. Yea, we lost a few playoff games too, but it was the fact that we would get right to the ONE BIG GAME and then blow it. THAT ENDED IN 1971.

So, from the late 60's to 1971 is not 17 years.

This team CAN'T WIN A PLAYOFF GAME IN 13 YEARS.

This team CAN'T WIN IN DECEMBER since 1996 to save its life.

So, don't compare the two situations. Lets lose 3 Super Bowls, in 5 years (Dallas lost in the NFL Championship game at the end of the 66 season, then the 67 season, then lost a Super Bowl in 1970), and your comparison will make sense.

 

[rcaldw]

They've played in a horrible, horrible division as well. Do you think they'd have done what they did in our division where they don't have four gimme games a year in KC and Oakland? Until this year, even the worst team in the division was .500. Last year, their division winner was .500. That's pathetic.

But I'll give you this, Norv has done well with Rivers and the offense, and I'd have been very happy to have him here because it would've meant he'd be teaching Tony instead of Garrett.

I'm with you 100% on their division. I actually believe the two teams have 1 thing in common that most of their fans don't want to believe. I believe the talent base on both teams has been over hyped.

In San Diego, for example, it is very common to hear people rattle off the names.....

LT, Gates, Jackson, Rivers, etc.

Fact. LT hasn't been LT in awhile. That guy can still be productive around the goal line, but he has lost something.

Fact. Gates hasn't really stayed healthy, though he is healthy at the moment.

Fact. Jackson and Floyd are impressive now, but no one really knew who they were until Turner got that offense going with Rivers.

Fact. Their offensive line has been DECIMATED for most of the time Turner has been there, by injury. In fact, that whole team has been injury bitten. No Merriman all last season.

In similar fashion, everyone wants to rattle off the names of our players like they are all hall of famers.

I think, outside of Romo and Witten, you are really stretching it to imagine that we have any pro bowler at any other skill position. That includes Austin, though he may well develop into one.

I think what happens sometimes is players play on a high profile team, get talked about a lot, and so everyone thinks they are great.

OR

In the case of some of those Chargers, they are living off past reputations.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I've always said that. Our team isn't that talented at all, at least not compared to other top teams. The "so talented" thing came mainly from the 13-3 year when so many players made the Pro Bowl. But we all know winning teams create Pro Bowlers much more than Pro Bowlers create winning teams.

 

[rcaldw]

I've always said that. Our team isn't that talented at all, at least not compared to other top teams. The "so talented" thing came mainly from the 13-3 year when so many players made the Pro Bowl. But we all know winning teams create Pro Bowlers much more than Pro Bowlers create winning teams.

I agree with you Lab.

 

[theebs]

Norv kicked our rear when he was in washington with a worse team.
Norv kicked our rear when he was in miami.
Norv kicked our rear in 05 when he was 0-3 in oakland...

Norv is coming to town sunday. He might as well wear a scrooge or a grinch costume.

 

[visionary]

Everyone wants to take their shot at JJT in this thread even thought his articles can be annoying but he's right in everything he stated in this and I have no problem in what he wrote.

ssssshhhhhh!!!!

the mods and the coolaid drinkers on this board want to distract from the real issues so they use the oldest strategy in the book: "shoot the messenger".

phillip's record is what it is in december and the post season, JJT did not make it up. there must be a reason he has failed in the most critical part of the season. but who cares..... nothing to see here..... move along.

this team and its coaching staff are in "show me" mode: win 3 of the next 4 and make the playoffs and win in the playoffs and prove that you are all that.

other players around this league dont respect this team, this is why the giants and eagles consistently talk trash the whole week before they play us, this is why the ravens said what they said last year. they know this team will not respond with intensity when punched in the mouth and will fold like a cheap tent. these players have the personality of their coach.... soft.

the eagles and giants are playing this week, listen to how they talk about each other...with respect. they want to beat the other team but they respect the other team.

 

[DFWJC]

Norv kicked our rear when he was in washington with a worse team.
Norv kicked our rear when he was in miami.
Norv kicked our rear in 05 when he was 0-3 in oakland...

Norv is coming to town sunday. He might as well wear a scrooge or a grinch costume.

Norv's team is what we should concerned about. They are playing as good or better than anyone right now and Rivers is playing like the NFL MVP (but won't win it).

Here's some trivia, since some here put so much on winning in December: Rivers has never lost a single game in December while quarterbacking the Chargers. Not one.

 

[Alexander]

I've always said that. Our team isn't that talented at all, at least not compared to other top teams. The "so talented" thing came mainly from the 13-3 year when so many players made the Pro Bowl. But we all know winning teams create Pro Bowlers much more than Pro Bowlers create winning teams.

So now it is a lack of talent?

We are no worse than the majority of the teams in the playoff hunt. We certainly are comparable. Fans over- or under-rate the team's overall talent because we are fans and don't bother examining other teams that closely. If you take the time, you will see the better teams all have their warts. Trying to imply that this team is suffering from some sort of significant talent deficit is an excursion into excuse-making.

Teams like the Saints and Colts aren't stacked top to bottom either. They have their weak spots, just like Dallas. The significant difference with both clubs, but especially Indianapolis, is the organizational vision and stability. They have sound coaching staffs and their management has drafted well and have assembled teams with character that can overcome challenges. They have both done it all season long.

 

[rcaldw]

I've always said that. Our team isn't that talented at all, at least not compared to other top teams. The "so talented" thing came mainly from the 13-3 year when so many players made the Pro Bowl. But we all know winning teams create Pro Bowlers much more than Pro Bowlers create winning teams.

By the way, to follow up on your point, using San Diego as the example, it was the 14-2 season under Schottenheimer that people now use on Norv all the time. (To say how great the talent base is)

They conveniently ignore that the same team was 9-7 just the season before under Marty, and that his 14-2 squad was a one and done in the playoffs, losing to New England.

If Marty couldn't get his 14-2 squad through 1 playoff win, and Turner takes the team the next season and gets them to the AFC Championship game, with a multitude of injuries that Marty didn't have to deal with the year before, how is Marty great and Turner a loser?

So, I think a lot of the Chargers and Cowboys reputations came out of 1 really good season, and in the NFL these days, a team can have 1 really good season and it not continue on. Everything might have just fallen right in that particular year.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Trying to imply that this team is suffering from some sort of significant talent deficit is an excursion into excuse-making.

I never said that. At all.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

So now it is a lack of talent?

We are no worse than the majority of the teams in the playoff hunt. We certainly are comparable. Fans over- or under-rate the team's overall talent because we are fans and don't bother examining other teams that closely. If you take the time, you will see the better teams all have their warts. Trying to imply that this team is suffering from some sort of significant talent deficit is an excursion into excuse-making.

Teams like the Saints and Colts aren't stacked top to bottom either. They have their weak spots, just like Dallas. The significant difference with both clubs, but especially Indianapolis, is the organizational vision and stability. They have sound coaching staffs and their management has drafted well and have assembled teams with character that can overcome challenges. They have both done it all season long.

I don't think lack of character is this team's problem. I think the team buys into Wade's philosophy that everything is okay and, no matter what happens, they are still winners. There is no resolve or urgency.

Well, as my Pee Wee coach used to say, "There is no trophy for 2nd place, kids. If you don't win it all you're all losers!" :

 

[visionary]

:

I've always said that. Our team isn't that talented at all, at least not compared to other top teams. The "so talented" thing came mainly from the 13-3 year when so many players made the Pro Bowl. But we all know winning teams create Pro Bowlers much more than Pro Bowlers create winning teams.

so now its: blame the "lack of talent"

use any excuse to distract rather than focus on the real problem:

JJ should not be the GM
phillips should not be the HC
JG should not be the OC

can you honestly say that these players would not have a better record if bellichick was their coach? i am using an extreme example to make the point that coaching does make a huge difference.

 

[theebs]

Norv's team is what we should concerned about. They are playing as good or better than anyone right now and Rivers is playing like the NFL MVP (but won't win it).

Here's some trivia, since some here put so much on winning in December: Rivers has never lost a single game in December while quarterbacking the Chargers. Not one.

Rivers is what I am scared of. He has weapons all over and he uses them all well.

I think we are in big trouble sunday.

 

[rcaldw]

I never said that. At all.

No, you didn't say that. I think all that we were meaning, Alexander, is that when people try to make this team out to be the 90's Cowboys, just without Jimmy Johnson, it isn't reality.

That is no excuse for the way this team has performed at crunch time, over and over again in recent history.

You are right to say that every team has its warts. You are right to say that our team is COMPARABLE with other winning teams.

I (not speaking for Lab here), personally believe that we have a losing culture right now in Dallas. I think Jerry Jones creates it by the very way he sets up his leadership structure.

You can have a QUIET head coach, who is still a powerful head coach, if:

1. He really is a quiet leader
2. He really has the authority to lead

If you, instead, hire a guy who really isn't a HEAD coach, but a coordinator and then

Emasculate him in a lot of ways by the way you treat the team you own (like the owner giving post game "fire em up" speeches to the team)...

then you create a culture that doesn't stand up real well in the face of the major tests that every NFL season is going to present.

That is just MY opinion.

 

[Idgit]

Norv is coming to town sunday. He might as well wear a scrooge or a grinch costume.

Those are just acne scars, but I guess it does look a little grinchy.