CFZ Just because you have a young coach doesn't mean he will be Sean McVay

[RustyBourneHorse]

Garrett was supposed to be his Sean Payton

Moore was supposed to be his Sean McVay

earlier

Kavika Pittman was supposed to be his Charles Haley

Quincy Carter was supposed to get his Donovan McNabb

David LaFluer was supposed to be his Jay Novachek

And that's part of Jerry's problem. He's living in the past. He needs to evaluate what he's got with the current coaches. He's got a very good HC with a lot of experience and knows how to playcall from behind. Moore doesn't have that much experience compared to Mike.

 

[zrinkill]

It does not matter who the coach is as long as these clowns are running the show ...... Have we learned nothing from the past 27 years?

 

[birdwells1]

And that's part of Jerry's problem. He's living in the past. He needs to evaluate what he's got with the current coaches. He's got a very good HC with a lot of experience and knows how to playcall from behind. Moore doesn't have that much experience compared to Mike.

Jerry’s trying to find his “Tom Landry” he thought he had it with Jason, now Kellen is up.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

It does not matter who the coach is as long as these clowns are running the show ...... Have we learned nothing from the past 27 years?

Well, I think the current HC could help IF Jerry would let him do what he does best.

 

[fivetwos]

Well, the good news is that it sounds like Mike might be taking over some of the playcall duties. I think he should be more vocal about when he wants to adjust. Moore is not ready for adjusting through difficult situations. He's better at adjusting than Garrett, but that's not saying much. Mike knows what he's doing at playcalling. Jerry should trust Mike more there. He only guided two Packers QBs to NFCC games and a SB ring for one of them. Not exactly something we've seen a lot lately.

Yep, maybe.

But Moore is there so Jerry can have a certain amount of influence over the offense.

In general, I just don't think it's ideal to have a mismosh of personalities that are there for different reasons and not on the same page entirely.

Keeping Moore on board was essentially a prerequisite for getting the HC job, and MM wanted the gig....any gig....badly.

No one is ever going to convince me otherwise.

Yet, I somehow remain hopeful it can be overcome. I'm not at all into "I told you so" nor do I wish to throw in the towel before any given season starts, but our problems in general are becoming fairly clear as the sample size grows.

That all said, it's Kool Aid time.....because denial works in certain spots in life my young friend.

 

[zrinkill]

Well, I think the current HC could help IF Jerry would let him do what he does best.

But that's the point ...... Jerry's ego will never let someone else run the team ..... To him a coach is just someone who answers to him and coaches ...... I guarantee that taking Conner Williams out of the lineup last year was an executive decision and not a coaching one.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I think something that Jerry has missed out on is this. Just because you have a young coach doesn't mean he will magically become Sean McVay. We have had two coaches that the FO has propped up as the next young geniuses. Those two being Jason Garrett and Kellen Moore.

In the case of Jason Garrett, I used to receive magazines late in the offseason as training camp was going to start. In a magazine I received in 2007, it mentioned of course about Wade Phillips being the next HC. Concerningly, it also talked about how Jason Garrett, the new OC who I hadn't heard of at the time, was due to become a HC at some point if Wade doesn't succeed. I found this concerning because he hadn't had enough time to develop into a HC, yet, he was already being propped up as the next HC. Turned out, 3 years later, the magazine was correct. Sure enough, Garrett didn't do well and failed miserably with the Giants after leaving us. The problem in my view? He hadn't been given enough time to acclimate to what it really takes to be a HC as a coordinator. He should have been working his way through the ranks, but it was obvious that Jerry wanted him as a HC. However, his mentors were Wade Phillips and Nick Saban. One of which was a defencive-minded HC, and the other couldn't cut it at the NFL level. It might have served Garrett better to learn a few more years under a different proper coach. Think Jerry has learned his lesson? Think again....

Now we come to Kellen Moore. He was, at one point, slated to be the 2nd string QB behind Romo until he broke his leg. So, into coaching he went. At first as the QB coach under Linehan and Garrett. He seemed to be propped up as this genius coaching mind. He quickly rises the rank to OC, and then stays that way with Mike. However, he's shown a few potential weaknesses in terms of long-term team adjustments to injuries, similar to something that Garrett struggled with. I think Mike, a better coach than Garrett, obviously, should be stepping in every now and then when Moore hits inexperience walls.

The morale of this story is that Jason Garrett was not a Sean McVay-type coach, nor is Moore. I think Jerry is rushing Moore through too quickly like he did Garrett. The nice thing about our FO set up is that it could allow for more patience to develop a coach at a coordinator spot as the GM can't be fired here. So, I think it'd be wise for Moore to take his time and learn how to make long-term adjustments as well as in-game adjustments (which he's better at than Garrett) before any talk of him being an NFL-HC arises.

How many more years of misery till you guys understand that long as Jones is GM (AL Davis without the football knowledge) we are going nowhere!!!
Total irrelevant who the coach is as their either a YES man or here for that last massive paycheck before heading off the gridiron world!

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

How many more years of misery till you guys understand that long as Jones is GM (AL Davis without the football knowledge) we are going nowhere!!!
Total irrelevant who the coach is as their either a YES man or here for that last massive paycheck before heading off the gridiron world!

I mean, I'm not really sure what the alternative is lol.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Yep, maybe.

But Moore is there so Jerry can have a certain amount of influence over the offense.

In general, I just don't think it's ideal to have a mismosh of personalities that are there for different reasons and not on the same page entirely.

Keeping Moore on board was essentially a prerequisite for getting the HC job, and MM wanted the gig....any gig....badly.

No one is ever going to convince me otherwise.

Yet, I somehow remain hopeful it can be overcome. I'm not at all into "I told you so" nor do I wish to throw in the towel before any given season starts, but our problems in general are becoming fairly clear as the sample size grows.

That all said, it's Kool Aid time.....because denial works in certain spots in life my young friend.

Exactly, but hopefully Mike will be able to at least tell Moore what he wants called at a certain spot. Not necessarily playcalling, but he could say, "Hey Moore, give me a medium passing play for this play."

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I mean, I'm not really sure what the alternative is lol.

Lots of Bourbons and really don't invest much sorrow about our most loved Sports franchise as things are going to get WORSE before they get better bud......

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Lots of Bourbons and really don't invest much sorrow about our most loved Sports franchise as things are going to get WORSE before they get better bud......

Well, I'm not sure how much worse it can get considering I've never seen us in the NFCC. This is the norm for me. Also, I don't drink very often. The only time I plan on going to a game is if the Cowboys happen to be in Chicago when MFF is happening again. It was fun seeing us play in Chicago. Yeah, we lost, but what a fun time that was! And this time, I'll have my fursuit with me. Sadly, we host the Bears this time. Maybe next year, we can play at the Bears during the convention.

 

[Doomsday101]

But, this is a different franchise than most teams in that Jerry can afford to let a coach develop if there's a stronger leader above said coach. In this case, Moore has Mike who's got a lot of experience. Moore should be picking Mike's brain every chance he gets.

I don't pretend to know what is going on between McCarthy and staff, for all I know they do work together and put in the game plans together. I would find it strange if a HC was not meeting with his staff on regular basis

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I don't pretend to know what is going on between McCarthy and staff, for all I know they do work together and put in the game plans together. I would find it strange if a HC was not meeting with his staff on regular basis

I don't know what goes on behind those doors either. However, I don't see evidence of Mike taking the playcall duties often. I was thinking maybe he'd take over during the playoffs during some spots.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't know what goes on behind those doors either. However, I don't see evidence of Mike taking the playcall duties often. I was thinking maybe he'd take over during the playoffs during some spots.

He will either allow Moore to call the plays or not, having said that HC still has say on what they are doing and can interject at any point.

 

[Bobhaze]

This will be Moore 4th season as OC, 2 of his 1st 3 seasons this offense has ranked 1 in the NFL. I think there are areas he can improve on no doubt about it but I also think he has done a lot of good things and I hope to see more out of him.

I think Moore has done pretty well overall but he must improve in his ability to adjust to how DCs are playing his offense. He schemes pretty well as a game planner but does not seem to do as well when the defense throws wrinkles at him. He seems to fall back into the old Garrett philosophy of “just do what you do and beat the man in front of you”.

In today’s NFL, the best offensive minds- like Andy Reid and Sean McVay, are always scheming creative ways to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers or scheming plays that defenses haven’t seen. Moore has to get more creative at critical moments in the season.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think Moore has done pretty well overall but he must improve in his ability to adjust to how DCs are playing his offense. He schemes pretty well as a game planner but does not seem to do as well when the defense throws wrinkles at him. He seems to fall back into the old Garrett philosophy of “just do what you do and beat the man in front of you”.

In today’s NFL, the best offensive minds- like Andy Reid and Sean McVay, are always scheming creative ways to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers or scheming plays that defenses haven’t seen. Moore has to get more creative at critical moments in the season.

I don't disagree but will say even Reids offense stumbled last season. Moore is young and I do think he will continue to improve as he gains experience. All in all I don't think he has been bad but clearly think he can be better.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I think Moore has done pretty well overall but he must improve in his ability to adjust to how DCs are playing his offense. He schemes pretty well as a game planner but does not seem to do as well when the defense throws wrinkles at him. He seems to fall back into the old Garrett philosophy of “just do what you do and beat the man in front of you”.

In today’s NFL, the best offensive minds- like Andy Reid and Sean McVay, are always scheming creative ways to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers or scheming plays that defenses haven’t seen. Moore has to get more creative at critical moments in the season.

Exactly what you're saying, and he also, like Garrett, doesn't seem to understand that, if you have injuries on the team, you may need to adjust a few things to accommodate the players who are trying to play through an injury. If your QB has a calf strain on the same leg he had surgery on the year before, you don't draw up plays that require him to stay in the pocket for an extended period of time and drive the ball deep. You run the ball and, when throwing, adjust to more quick passes to help mitigate this so that your team has a better chance of succeeding.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Like some have said, it doesn't matter who the coach is in Dallas. Until Jerry learns how to manage the cap and build a defense every coach will struggle. It's hard to build a championship caliber team when the salary cap is ripping it apart every four or five years. Giving huge contracts to average players is our down fall. We all know that, but why does he not?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Like some have said, it doesn't matter who the coach is in Dallas. Until Jerry learns how to manage the cap and build a defense every coach will struggle. It's hard to build a championship caliber team when the salary cap is ripping it apart every four or five years. Giving huge contracts to average players is our down fall. We all know that, but why does he not?

Which is also true, but I think we can all agree that the coaching between Parcells and Mike has been subpar. Of course, Jerry would have to give the coach some more control, but Mike is doing a pretty solid job all things considered. He's got the respect of the players, and rightfully so with his experience.

 

[Bobhaze]

Like some have said, it doesn't matter who the coach is in Dallas. Until Jerry learns how to manage the cap and build a defense every coach will struggle. It's hard to build a championship caliber team when the salary cap is ripping it apart every four or five years. Giving huge contracts to average players is our down fall. We all know that, but why does he not?

Not to mention two other big problems Jerry creates:

1. He doesn’t hire HCs with a ton of talent or command of the locker room. Because those kinds of HCs make him uncomfortable and threaten his compulsion to be the center of all things Cowboys.
2. He undermines his HCs with his constant public comments about anything he chooses at any moment. He and his son have two radio shows every week and they even contradict each other. This constant public talk undermines his HCs ability to be in charge of the locker room and leaves a door open constantly for the media to ask if he “has confidence in his HC”.​