Just don't get it???

[btcutter]

It's is painfully obvious to me that our OL is the cause of our demise last year and will be again if we don't draft some good players here ( I am not hanging my hope on a bunch of underachievers, coming off injury 30 somthing tackles and last yr's rookie that got burnt so often that I can smell the burn at home):bang2: . Why is it that almost everyone wants our 1st pick be a OLB???

IF the BPA is a OLB so be it.....but, I much prefer moving down if at all possible to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd to shore up the OL. Yeah, OLB is a much sexier pick and may help us rack up a few more sacks but like I posted before....I can live with our current LB corp but not with the current OL. Our OL will cost us more games than our LB's. It ruined our playoff birth for sure last yr.

 

[junk]

It's is painfully obvious to me that our OL is the cause of our demise last year and will be again if we don't draft some good players here ( I am not hanging my hope on a bunch of underachievers, coming off injury 30 somthing tackles and last yr's rookie that got burnt so often that I can smell the burn at home):bang2: . Why is it that almost everyone wants our 1st pick be a OLB???

IF the BPA is a OLB so be it.....but, I much prefer moving down if at all possible to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd to shore up the OL. Yeah, OLB is a much sexier pick and may help us rack up a few more sacks but like I posted before....I can live with our current LB corp but not with the current OL. Our OL will cost us more games than our LB's. It ruined our playoff birth for sure last yr.

The defense also had issues stopping the run and rushing the passer.

Drafting OL isn't a sure fire fix. See Gurode, Peterman, Rogers.

 

[Paniolo22]

Someone in the scouting dept. must have a woody for Kosier or I can see people losing their jobs.

 

[iceberg]

It's is painfully obvious to me that our OL is the cause of our demise last year and will be again if we don't draft some good players here ( I am not hanging my hope on a bunch of underachievers, coming off injury 30 somthing tackles and last yr's rookie that got burnt so often that I can smell the burn at home):bang2: . Why is it that almost everyone wants our 1st pick be a OLB???

IF the BPA is a OLB so be it.....but, I much prefer moving down if at all possible to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd to shore up the OL. Yeah, OLB is a much sexier pick and may help us rack up a few more sacks but like I posted before....I can live with our current LB corp but not with the current OL. Our OL will cost us more games than our LB's. It ruined our playoff birth for sure last yr.

heh, not long ago i said our OL was old, and NOT improved (i think we regressed till proven otherwise) over last year and well...it got ugly after that.

 

[btcutter]

The defense also had issues stopping the run and rushing the passer.

Drafting OL isn't a sure fire fix. See Gurode, Peterman, Rogers.

Draft is a crap shot. Drafting D doen't mean Doomday returns either. Last few drafts have concentrated on D. I think it's time to shore up the trenches on the O side.

I give you that the D had it's share of problem stopping some run teams. However, it's NOTHING compared to the problem our OL had creating holes or protect QB. Our YOUNG D has a very good chance of improving. Our OLD OL, however, really doesn't carry much upside.

 

[VoR]

It's is painfully obvious to me that our OL is the cause of our demise last year and will be again if we don't draft some good players here ( I am not hanging my hope on a bunch of underachievers, coming off injury 30 somthing tackles and last yr's rookie that got burnt so often that I can smell the burn at home):bang2: . Why is it that almost everyone wants our 1st pick be a OLB???

IF the BPA is a OLB so be it.....but, I much prefer moving down if at all possible to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd to shore up the OL. Yeah, OLB is a much sexier pick and may help us rack up a few more sacks but like I posted before....I can live with our current LB corp but not with the current OL. Our OL will cost us more games than our LB's. It ruined our playoff birth for sure last yr.

As much as I like the pretty picks (LB - Lawson, Wimbley, Carpenter,S - Whitner, Simpson) here's hoping we pull a 1988 NYG draft and add O-line with #1 and #2. Fabini and Kosier are good backups.

 

[peplaw06]

heh, not long ago i said our OL was old, and NOT improved (i think we regressed till proven otherwise) over last year and well...it got ugly after that.

I really don't understand how you can say we have regressed on OL.

Agreed, Kosier is probably a small downgrade from LA, but only in certain areas. LA had problems in space, and from what I've heard on this board, Kosier can actually move. LA was on his last legs and we all know it. Yes he was a Cowboy mainstay, and we should appreciate him for that, but he wasn't the same old LA.

As for our tackles... the last 6 games of last season our starting tackles were Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti. We were 7-3, and as we all know when Flo went down, all hell broke loose. So Flo comes back, improving the left side. We signed Fabini, granted he's not the greatest RT in the world, but he's going to start. Pettiti is a year wiser, and he's going from the starting role to a backup role. It's obvious if you take a starter from the line the year before and make him a backup that you have improved.

Oh yeah, we're NOT DONE.:starspin

 

[iceberg]

I really don't understand how you can say we have regressed on OL.

Agreed, Kosier is probably a small downgrade from LA, but only in certain areas. LA had problems in space, and from what I've heard on this board, Kosier can actually move. LA was on his last legs and we all know it. Yes he was a Cowboy mainstay, and we should appreciate him for that, but he wasn't the same old LA.

As for our tackles... the last 6 games of last season our starting tackles were Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti. We were 7-3, and as we all know when Flo went down, all hell broke loose. So Flo comes back, improving the left side. We signed Fabini, granted he's not the greatest RT in the world, but he's going to start. Pettiti is a year wiser, and he's going from the starting role to a backup role. It's obvious if you take a starter from the line the year before and make him a backup that you have improved.

Oh yeah, we're NOT DONE.:starspin

great - we're not done. when we get more help i'll re-eval. till then we have a old back problem player another year older, hope kozier can play better than allen at 70%, and we've still got gurode and johnson as our instant-excuses to suck.

how many players on our line now would have started for the cowboys in 92-93?

 

[Paniolo22]

I really don't understand how you can say we have regressed on OL.

Agreed, Kosier is probably a small downgrade from LA, but only in certain areas. LA had problems in space, and from what I've heard on this board, Kosier can actually move. LA was on his last legs and we all know it. Yes he was a Cowboy mainstay, and we should appreciate him for that, but he wasn't the same old LA.

As for our tackles... the last 6 games of last season our starting tackles were Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti. We were 7-3, and as we all know when Flo went down, all hell broke loose. So Flo comes back, improving the left side. We signed Fabini, granted he's not the greatest RT in the world, but he's going to start. Pettiti is a year wiser, and he's going from the starting role to a backup role. It's obvious if you take a starter from the line the year before and make him a backup that you have improved.

Oh yeah, we're NOT DONE.:starspin

Well, conceivably the drop off from Allen to Kosier could be considered the same as the improvement from Petitti to Fabini so it's a wash. Flozell comes back so there is an improvement, but not enough. It seems we are still at status quo and that is really not good enough. Unless, of course, Rivera plays back to his Pro Bowl form and Johnson or Gurode win out the C position full time with marked improvement. Lotta if's for my taste.

 

[hmcorp]

I think people are overreacting to the whole our O line was a huge problem thing. 26 of the 50 were given up by two players. One of them is gone. And the other has fabini a veteran in the wings. And most of petitis were given up after we had to give help to tucker as well. Petiti did pretty well when flozell was in. Now we have flozell back.

Al johnson is bigger than he was last year and was honestly pretty good last year. Most people that dont like him just wanted a pro bowl center. Our offense was good enough to keep up with everyone in every single game EXCEPT for one game against washington.

Our running game was amazing occasionaly and good most of the time. On goal line stuff larry allen was CONSTANTLY a problem. I cannot count how many times we could not run near him because he was not quick enough to move. His lack of quickness last yeari n our scheme killed us quite often. Proof positive in that SO MANY of our BIG runs last year were to the right side. Thank you rivera and petiti...and al johnson. It is no coincidence.

This isnt saying that when larry happened to lumber onto a body he didnt completely maul them 20 yards somewhere. But he missed a lot more than he hit.

Too many people here discount peterman. ANd too many people think kosier is awful. If our "awful" o line last year was able to keep the team afloat in every game. (our defense gave up an awful lot of scores at the end of games last year too if you guys dont remember) if we merely stop seattle instead of allowing them to TOSS PASSES IN THE AIR AND COME DOWN ITH THEM...perhaps bledsoe wouldnt have had to come back for the 7th time that year. I think our defense has to get better. OUr offense honestly wasnt that bad. We beat carolina IN carolina for cripes sake. We played 3 of the NFC/AFC championship team participants and beat one of them and easily could have beaten the other two.

I dont think our team is as lowly as people would like to imagine. We have a lot of options with our team next year. and ap layer in kosier who can fill in at any position. I wouldnt count out peterman either. Watch this kid play this year.

 

[peplaw06]

great - we're not done. when we get more help i'll re-eval. till then we have a old back problem player another year older, hope kozier can play better than allen at 70%, and we've still got gurode and johnson as our instant-excuses to suck.

how many players on our line now would have started for the cowboys in 92-93?

Well that's a given. You can't compare, because we hadn't felt the brunt of the salary cap yet. If you want to say we've regressed since then, fine. But that's not the case you were making. You contend we've regressed since last year, which is ludicrous.

 

[peplaw06]

There's another issue here... Who should we have already picked up?? I don't see anyone that was out there who was that great. Sure, Bentley and Hutchinson, but if we had those guys at their contract prices, our cap room would be zilch.

 

[jackrussell]

You contend we've regressed since last year, which is ludicrous.

Anyone contending they have progressed since last year could be just as 'ludicrous'.

 

[hmcorp]

Once again who said we were so awful last year. As a team we were able to compete in every game but one.

So even though the offense struggled because of 2 players in our o line (one of them gone now) And also struggled because we had a very immobile guard who is also gone we still competed in every game except for washington 35-7.

 

[iceberg]

Well that's a given. You can't compare, because we hadn't felt the brunt of the salary cap yet. If you want to say we've regressed since then, fine. But that's not the case you were making. You contend we've regressed since last year, which is ludicrous.

we had plenty of $$$ and space this year didn't we? we bought a TO and ignored the line. we got a nice shiney hood ornament and then some generic parts for the engine.

my point in the players not starting is NOT $$$, it's talent. we put our $ in the line then and suddenly we got talented players to be VERY talented in emmitt, aikman and irvin.

we chose to put our money NOT in the line and i think it's gonna bite us in the nana's. i can grant that we may be more or less the same but we've NOT improved the line and we know we need to in order to give drew a chance.

we didn't. that's gonna hurt.

 

[jrumann59]

Drafting OL in the 1st rd is a waste since the talent from rd 1 to rd 7 is small how many of the past 1st rd OL have mede it to the pro bowl. Lets see:

2000
Chris Samuels-1 pro bowl maybe 2
Stockar McDougle-plays for Detroit nuff said
Chris McIntosh not on Seattle's Roster

These are just 1st rounders Chad Clifton and Todd Wade came in the 2nd

2001
Leonard Davis-Not Better then Flozell
Kenyatta Walker-They brought Torrin Tucker to compete nuff said.
Jeff Backus-Decent

Jonas Jennigs was drafted in the 3rd rd

2002
Mike Williams-May be moving to guard drafted as a Tackle.
Bryant McKinnie-Haven't heard much about him one way or the other.
Levi Jones-Starting to come into his own
Marc Columbo-We know his story.

Lecharles Bentley was taken in the 2nd rd of this year after Gurode

2003
Jordan Gross-Notable
Georg Foster-Pretty Decent
Jeff Faine-The browns replaced him
Kwame Harris-Who?

Stinchcomb was a 2nd rounder and Koppen was a 5th

2004
Robert Gallery-Well he is still with his team
Shawn Andrews-turning into a decent guard
Vernon Casey-Not familiar with this guy

Max Starks and Locklear in the 3rd, Snee in the 2nd

2005
Jammal Brown-Who Knows
Alex Barron-Same as above
Chris Spencer-Must be something if Seattle got rid of Mawae
Logan Mankins-Starter? Maybe

Petitti was drafted after all these guys

Miami has been drafting lineman on the first day the last 5-6 years, most have been tackles so drafting lineman is hard even the blue chippers, very few of the names above have distinguished themselves as the next E. Williams, J. Ogden, or T. Boselli.

 

[Wolverine]

I think our OL will do pretty good this year. Kosier is gonna surprise many. In that one link I put up it had one NFL scout as sayin Kosier is a upgrade over Allen.

Unlike many in here I have NOT given up on Rob Pettiti. I think he will turn into a good OL in the future. He will give us solid back up. Fabini is a huge upgrade. Al Johnson hit the gym and now has his weight up to 317 pounds. I would not be surprised if he ends up at 320 to 323 pounds. He will be much stronger then last year and will be healthy. We will also have a healthy Flozelle Adams back.

Right now the weakest link on the OL is Marco Rivera. Hopefully we can get someone else to replace him.

 

[junk]

we had plenty of $$$ and space this year didn't we? we bought a TO and ignored the line. we got a nice shiney hood ornament and then some generic parts for the engine.

my point in the players not starting is NOT $$$, it's talent. we put our $ in the line then and suddenly we got talented players to be VERY talented in emmitt, aikman and irvin.

we chose to put our money NOT in the line and i think it's gonna bite us in the nana's. i can grant that we may be more or less the same but we've NOT improved the line and we know we need to in order to give drew a chance.

we didn't. that's gonna hurt.

Look at the dominant offensive lines around the NFL. They aren't built with many high dollar parts or high draft picks.

Offensive lines fail when you keep a constantly rotating set of pieces moving in and out.

Continuity and finding guys that match your scheme are what make for a successful line. I'm not convinced throwing picks at it will fix it.

Some of the best offensive lineman in the league were undrafted or castoffs from other teams.

 

[peplaw06]

we had plenty of $$$ and space this year didn't we? we bought a TO and ignored the line. we got a nice shiney hood ornament and then some generic parts for the engine.

my point in the players not starting is NOT $$$, it's talent. we put our $ in the line then and suddenly we got talented players to be VERY talented in emmitt, aikman and irvin.

we chose to put our money NOT in the line and i think it's gonna bite us in the nana's. i can grant that we may be more or less the same but we've NOT improved the line and we know we need to in order to give drew a chance.

we didn't. that's gonna hurt.

To get talent you have to spend money. It all depends on how you spend it. If you can get serviceable to good players to plug into our holes on the OL, then you can spend the money saved elsewhere. If we spend all our cap space on OL, it could hinder us improving in other areas.

We all know we needed help at WR. We needed a gamebreaker. We said last offseason we needed to get younger. One healthy (or lucky) season where we didn't lose one of our top 2 WRs, doesn't change the fact that we still needed a gamebreaker. SO instead of pouring all of our cap space into the OL, we improved the OL, WR, K, LB. And we have the draft to get cheaper talent. In the salary cap era, the good teams are the balanced one, not the ones who spend all their money in one spot. No one has had a line of the 92-93 Cowboys caliber since then.

 

[zrinkill]

If we had a good kicker last year we would have been 12-4

People seem to forget that.