CFZ Keep this in mind regarding PS games

[Bobhaze]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

 

[MWH1967]

sorry you had to do that Bob. It has its place however.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Once again, most other teams approach the preseason the same way. This means that over time the win rate should be around .500 give or take a few percent either direction, but that isn't what we are seeing.

This means that we have a chronic problem with having worse depth than practically ever other franchise. Even if our starters are better that is in no way a justification for poor depth issues year after year. It is staggeringly irresponsible to blow that off.

Another point is that the Cowboys have lost 4 of their last 5 season openers because our starters have to use a real game with huge implications in seeding as a tune up game to get in shape.

Noticing these trends is not worrying about winning meaningless games. It is pattern recognition that must be noticed and dealt with if this team is to ever return to glory. You can't whistle past any graveyards.

 

[rambo2]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Guys are going to complain and freak out no matter how much you try and educate them. Especially after a few beers.

 

[acr731]

Pre season games can sometimes show you possible trends, though. Its been a number of years and I don't remember exactly when, but there was one season where the o'line was absolutely horrible in the pre season and the terrible play carried through the entire regular season.

 

[rambo2]

Pre season games can sometimes show you possible trends, though. Its been a number of years and I don't remember exactly when, but there was one season where the o'line was absolutely horrible in the pre season and the terrible play carried through the entire regular season.

The starting oline is good and none of them have played a snap.

 

[shabazz]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Bob, the one question Ive always had is , is there a direct correlation between having costly superior starters and having to retain lower budget backup?

If so, it would stand to logic that most of the better teams would have inferior backups compared to teams that have less than stellar starters? Of course some degree of this could be neutralized by superior scouting that brings potential gems like Deuce and Overshown here but that would be an exception rather than the rule

Just a question

 

[charron]

Opponents have been starting most of their best players on offense while the cowboys play mostly backups at best on offense. I would like to see some of these young weapons out there with Dak but I get being cautious about injuries.

 

[CouchCoach]

Opponents have been starting most of their best players on offense while the cowboys play mostly backups at best on offense. I would like to see some of these young weapons out there with Dak but I get being cautious about injuries.

After Overshown, they will be even more cautious.

 

[Kingofholland]

I agree to a large extent the outcome is meaningless and has zero bearing on how the season will play out. However, we all know these games are important for players trying to win a job.

 

[AsthmaField]

Yep, the score means nothing. Every coaching staff has a different idea of what they want to do in PS games. It is all different. Some coaches game plan a little while others don’t game plan at all.

If one team starts with its starters and the other starts with its backups, then the second team is further into its depth from the get go and stays behind in its depth for most of the game.

Each coaching staff probably has a different idea of what they want to see and their own agenda for pre season.

That is why you see the Eagles tying the Browns or the Bengals tying the Falcons when Philly and Cincy are far superior teams.

You can tell nothing other than this player did well and this one still needs work, or this staff plays its starters more than that one.

The game score means nothing, and it has meant nothing for as long as we all have been watching the NFL.

 

[shabazz]

After Overshown, they will be even more cautious.

If they were more cautious than they are now, they'd be fielding the coaching staff, cheerleaders and ball boys next……..hmmm Cowboys cheerleader at center may have some advantages to it…would never be in shotgun formation ever again*

 

[maryquality]

If they were more cautious than they are now, they'd be fielding the coaching staff, cheerleaders and ball boys next……..hmmm Cowboys cheerleader at center may have some advantages to it…would never be in shotgun formation ever again*

 

[75boyz]

Once again, most other teams approach the preseason the same way. This means that over time the win rate should be around .500 give or take a few percent either direction, but that isn't what we are seeing.

This means that we have a chronic problem with having worse depth than practically ever other franchise. Even if our starters are better that is in no way a justification for poor depth issues year after year. It is staggeringly irresponsible to blow that off.

Another point is that the Cowboys have lost 4 of their last 5 season openers because our starters have to use a real game with huge implications in seeding as a tune up game to get in shape.

Noticing these trends is not worrying about winning meaningless games. It is pattern recognition that must be noticed and dealt with if this team is to ever return to glory. You can't whistle past any graveyards.

Bob's OP is good.
Your response here is excellent as well.
Both sides represented well.

 

[maryquality]

I agree about meaningless pre-season games. I just want to see how guys are playing to their potential.
However, when the Cowboys were regularly scheduled to play the Texans every pre-season, the Texans' fans acted like it was their Super Bowl!!! They would literally taunt Cowboys fans about their win!! But, I had the last laugh when we beat them the last few times during the regular season when it actually counted--Despite our pre-season losses to them!! Dumb Texans' fans!!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

For some reason...I feel like you are talking sometimes and other times shouting.

I do agree pre season wins/losses are meaningless.....is there someone specific you are talking about? I wasn;t aware that people are leaping off the cliff. if so...who cares?

I do not agree that PS is like band practice. Yes.....we do learn new songs...but we, and even guest musicians.... are expected to come into a band practice...already knowing the songs. We do get to stop if need be, clear up a harmony part or difficult transition ...but even that can still be embarrassing.

True band "practice"...is essentially hard core training for long grueling shows....a things you can't do at home.

Technique musicianship scales chords songs...all learned outside of "band practice". The difference? Noobie bands should have noob musicians. Veteran bands should have veteran musicians. Mixing them is usually disaster.

 

[shabazz]

Sorry about that Mary……the reason I would never lineup I shotgun formation is that I wouldn’t want them to break a nail snapping it back that far……that’s my story and….

 

[Hagman]

Great reminders. On the nose.

Will Grier still sucks, though.

 

[FVSTONE]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Mazi isn't facing number ones, he's going up against a lot of dudes who are in the same boat as he is in, very little or no NFL experience at all and he's still getting his lunch handed to him. Where's the dude that all the COWBOY experts having been raving about, where's the dude that is supposed to be cat quick and strong as an ox???????? When is he going to show up????????

 

[McKDaddy]

Mazi isn't facing number ones, he's going up against a lot of dudes who are in the same boat as he is in, very little or no NFL experience at all and he's still getting his lunch handed to him. Where's the dude that all the COWBOY experts having been raving about, where's the dude that is supposed to be cat quick and strong as an ox???????? When is he going to show up????????

its ok if he were looking like a rookie BUT you were seeing those moments that made you think "Oh, that's why he's different." I'm not seeing those nor have I been hearing that from others.