CFZ Keep this in mind regarding PS games

[OldtimerCowboyzFan]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

 

[Bobhaze]

Pre season games can sometimes show you possible trends, though. Its been a number of years and I don't remember exactly when, but there was one season where the o'line was absolutely horrible in the pre season and the terrible play carried through the entire regular season.

But how many times in the last decade has that been true? Once? Twice? So 10%-20% of the time. All I’m saying is we don’t have any real reliable evidence about this team yet.

Look I’m not selling kool aid.

For some reason...I feel like you are talking sometimes and other times shouting.

I do agree pre season wins/losses are meaningless.....is there someone specific you are talking about? I wasn;t aware that people are leaping off the cliff. if so...who cares?

I do not agree that PS is like band practice. Yes.....we do learn new songs...but we, and even guest musicians.... are expected to come into a band practice...already knowing the songs. We do get to stop if need be, clear up a harmony part or difficult transition ...but even that can still be embarrassing.

True band "practice"...is essentially hard core training for long grueling shows....a things you can't do at home.

Technique musicianship scales chords songs...all learned outside of "band practice". The difference? Noobie bands should have noob musicians. Veteran bands should have veteran musicians. Mixing them is usually disaster.

I’ll try to talk a little quieter next time Steve,

 

[ArtClink]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

I completely agree Hazey. I remember years ago I thought RB Bo Morgan was actually gonna mk the team after being our leading pre-season RB for three consecutive pre-seasons. #preSeasonHOF

 

[TequilaCowboy]

I think most fans here know what to look for in PS games, and it ain't the score.....or winning/losing. We look for the games within the game. Players going mano a mano. With the Cowboys not using any starters at all it makes it more difficult to judge, but that's all we got. We evaluate best we can... and the eye test becomes an even bigger factor in determining skills and level of ability. Good or bad.... That's just the way it is.

 

[IslandCowboy]

Most teams also use preseason to get their starters back into the groove of the game. Practice speed is not the same as game speed. We have failed to do that year after year while 95% of the league does the opposite. When are people going to realize that this coaching staff and owner are inept?

 

[Praxit]

..we would be having McCarthy's head. If the ACL happened, to a starter.

 

[Jake]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

It's kind of sad that you need to explain this to (supposed) adult football fans, but you do. People watch football for decades and still don't get preseason vs season.

 

[john van brocklin]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Just a little overreacting here, it's how we roll....

 

[GMO415]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Bullet, thanks for the reminders. Words to live by for Cowboys fans.

 

[jmj055]

What's sad is Da Boyz Wk1 record, each year hearing/reading the preseason hype. Then on Wk1 seeing them struggle adjusting to game speed.

QB1/starters played at least 1 series
Season	Pre1	Pre2	Pre3	Pre4	Preseason	Wk1
2016	Y	Y	Y	N	1-3	L
2017	N	N	Y	Y	3-1	W
2018	Y	Y	N	N	0-4	L
2019	Y	Y	Y	N	2-2	W
2020	Covid					L
2021	N	N	N	N	0-4	L
2022	N	N	N		2-1	L
						2-5

 

[T-RO]

Once again, most other teams approach the preseason the same way. This means that over time the win rate should be around .500 give or take a few percent either direction, but that isn't what we are seeing.

This means that we have a chronic problem with having worse depth than practically ever other franchise. Even if our starters are better that is in no way a justification for poor depth issues year after year. It is staggeringly irresponsible to blow that off.

Noticing these trends is not worrying about winning meaningless games. It is pattern recognition that must be noticed and dealt with if this team is to ever return to glory. You can't whistle past any graveyards.

This post seems to feature a few logical points...but is very flawed.

You suggest preseason games are a measure of backup talent?

• You confuse and conflate backups with camp bodies. Teams are carrying 90 players during preseason. Dallas is sitting their top 25 or so. You think you are going to learn something with guys like Wheat, Sieg, Mandell, Fast, Coyle, Banogu, Brooks, Redwine Houston on the field? That's who was playing Saturday for Dallas, but they won't even be wearing a star in a few weeks.
• Dallas leading tackler vs. Seattle? a 4th string safety.
• Ditto to a large degree for offense.
• Tons of preseason wins come from who has the best third string QB (they get the most reps). Grier sucks. He won't even be on the roster!

Season Graveyards because of preseason game scores? LMAO. Let's just get through them w/out injuries, which was the only real bad thing from Saturday night.

 

[T-RO]

This means that we have a chronic problem with having worse depth than practically ever other franchise. Even if our starters are better that is in no way a justification for poor depth issues year after year. It is staggeringly irresponsible to blow that off.

What melodramatic drivel.

You don't go 24-10 the past two years without good depth in most areas. Rush went 4-1 last year off the bench.

Dallas may have the deepest Edge group in the league. Safety too. Now maybe the deepest WR room. We don't enough o-lineman but 20 NFL GMs and 20 coaches are complaining about the exact same thing.

 

[CCBoy]

Yep, the score means nothing. Every coaching staff has a different idea of what they want to do in PS games. It is all different. Some coaches game plan a little while others don’t game plan at all.

If one team starts with its starters and the other starts with its backups, then the second team is further into its depth from the get go and stays behind in its depth for most of the game.

Each coaching staff probably has a different idea of what they want to see and their own agenda for pre season.

That is why you see the Eagles tying the Browns or the Bengals tying the Falcons when Philly and Cincy are far superior teams.

You can tell nothing other than this player did well and this one still needs work, or this staff plays its starters more than that one.

The game score means nothing, and it has meant nothing for as long as we all have been watching the NFL.

If the offensive line remains bullet proof for 2 seconds each offensive play, they can run and pass on any one.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

It got to the point I had to leave the game thread. The over analyzation of each play was ridiculous.

 

[CCBoy]

It got to the point I had to leave the game thread. The over analyzation of each play was ridiculous.

I wonder why talent scouts put little expectations upon most first round players until the 6 game point? We must be in the era of super humans, think?

 

[Pokefan1]

I spent a little time watching the game thread last night for the Seattle ps game. I was amazed at how much stock some our fans put into these games and what it may mean about the team or individual players.

Here are some points I believe about ps games and what we should all keep in mind:

• Winning or losing means nothing…nada…zero about the upcoming season. If we go 0-3 or 3-0 in ps. It means nothing about what we will see in the regular season.
• There is no game planning for the opponent for any of these games. Which means they’re are just running plays without even considering what would work best against a ps opponent.
• What you see in regard to ”play-calling” in PS- on offense or defense- is about 5-10% of the actual playbook. It’s plain vanilla on purpose. This is more like sandlot football than a real NFL game.
• Most rookies- even early round picks- don’t come plug and play. Most have to be developed. Most will have early ups and downs. What you see in August will probably not be what you see in Nov. Or next year. I know Mazi Smith hasn’t looked all world. Man he’s 22. The quality of talent in the NFL is waaaay above what he saw at Michigan. Give him and all the rooks some time before writing them off.
• Most of the players in these games for almost the whole game will not be big players in the regular season. About 50-75% of the players you see in ps will never play a meaningful down of NFL football.
• Remember- the coaches are using about 5-10% of the playbook on purpose. They aren’t game planning. They don’t want to show their best plays, formations or in some cases even player strengths in ps.
• The coaches know more about these players than we do. They want to win. Pre-season to this coaching staff is NOT about looking sharp. It’s about evaluating the margins of the roster. The preparation for the season opener is happening at practice, not in ps games.
• Maybe most importantly- what you see in ps games- good or bad- does not show what is about to happen when the games matter. Mike McCarthy is clearly a HC who chooses not to play his starters in ps games. (Imagine if Micah Parsons instead of Overshown had blown his knee out in the first qtr.) In other words we haven’t seen what this team is yet.

The above reasons are why ps games are vastly overrated if you are looking for indications about what the Cowboys will be in 2023. What you see in a pre-season football game is like watching a band rehearsal a month before a show. With backup singers and musicians.
The real show starts Sept. 11. That’s when we get to start learning what this team can be. Not now.

Injuries are most concerning, winning or losing means very little!

 

[T-RO]

I'm guessing there's a large overlap between those who watch "Pro Wrestling" and those who take preseason games with seriousness.

 

[DCreppinBoysfan]

The starting oline is good and none of them have played a snap.

Tyron has looked mid this summer….

 

[noshame]

Well, Bob. I hear what you're saying and I agree with 80% of it. However, I still think one offensive series per game is prudent.
You're not facing standard 43 or 34 defenses as you have for decades, you're facing ever changing defensive fronts and attacks. We've seen defenses blitz in pre season which is something that never used to happen. The starters have not faced any serious pressure to perform at a high level. There is no fear of your QB getting hit in camp.
QBs react differently under pressure, especially ours. I feel putting him out there in a new offense without feeling the timing and urgency of live action will be unfortunate.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

[baltcowboy]

Once again, most other teams approach the preseason the same way. This means that over time the win rate should be around .500 give or take a few percent either direction, but that isn't what we are seeing.

This means that we have a chronic problem with having worse depth than practically ever other franchise. Even if our starters are better that is in no way a justification for poor depth issues year after year. It is staggeringly irresponsible to blow that off.

Another point is that the Cowboys have lost 4 of their last 5 season openers because our starters have to use a real game with huge implications in seeding as a tune up game to get in shape.

Noticing these trends is not worrying about winning meaningless games. It is pattern recognition that must be noticed and dealt with if this team is to ever return to glory. You can't whistle past any graveyards.

Let’s look at the 3 first games of MM’s tenure. The Rams beat us because of a bs offensive pass interference call on Gallup and the Rams players did not play in the preseason either. McVay is the coach that started this no preseason for the starters by the way. The next season the Cowboys lost to Tampa because of an offensive pass interference no call. Dak not only didn’t play in the preseason but because of a strange shoulder injury he didn’t practice either. Dak threw for over 400 yards. Last season’s problem was the injury to our left tackle the week before that doomed us more then anything else. The offensive line played all the preseason games except Martin.