Kelvin Joseph CB Kentucky

[KingintheNorth]

I was reading the LSU board and they were calling him a quitter as he quit the team multiple times.

Said every college fan base about every kid that transfers.

Yet, somehow that criticism usually escapes Quarterbacks.

Is Joe Burrow a quitter? Justin Fields?

How about Russell Wilson? Jalen Hurts? Cam Newton? Baker Mayfield? Kyler Murray?

A kid recognizing he has a chance to showcase that he's starter somewhere else is just a business decision. If I played Corner and saw a 17-year old Derek Stingley, Jr. come on campus, I'd think about transferring too.

 

[cnuball21]

I was reading the LSU board and they were calling him a quitter as he quit the team multiple times.

Well there’s that and he he’s played in a very limited number of games.

Hard pass on taking him early.

 

[Cowboyny]

Really. You must not think much of the defensive players in this draft. Farley turns me off because of his lack of experience at the cornerback position and his injury history. Sitting out the season did him no favors. Farley is also a year older then Surtain. I think Surtain will go higher then Farley because teams are conservative when it comes to picking a high draft choice. I believe one of Surtain or Farley will be the pick for the Cowboys.

It's not a stretch to say Farley is the best defensive player in this draft, it's either him or Parsons, where Parsons has some character concerns. Teams usually do the opposite of what you are saying, they draft upside over production.

Just look at all the big boards, you will see a common pattern as Surtain started as a top 5 pick, we now see him in that top 15 range. Farley is staying firm in that top 10 range. Here are some of what the big boards have Surtain at: Kiper 15, Pauline 14, PFF 16, Draft Network 14. It's pretty clear there is now separation between Farley and Surtain. I actually think after Farley works out, we will be talking about him as a top 5 prospect.

 

[Cowboyny]

Well there’s that and he he’s played in a very limited number of games.

Hard pass on taking him early.

If the team moves back from 10, think Joseph could be in the discussion if they move past 20. He has good film against both Pitts and DeVonta Smith.

 

[Cowboyny]

Said every college fan base about every kid that transfers.

Yet, somehow that criticism usually escapes Quarterbacks.

Is Joe Burrow a quitter? Justin Fields?

How about Russell Wilson? Jalen Hurts? Cam Newton? Baker Mayfield? Kyler Murray?

A kid recognizing he has a chance to showcase that he's starter somewhere else is just a business decision. If I played Corner and saw a 17-year old Derek Stingley, Jr. come on campus, I'd think about transferring too.

Good point. I think he needs to be in the discussion as a trade back target if we are unable to land Farley. Heard his tape against Pitts and DeVonta Smith is real good.

 

[baltcowboy]

It's not a stretch to say Farley is the best defensive player in this draft, it's either him or Parsons, where Parsons has some character concerns. Teams usually do the opposite of what you are saying, they draft upside over production.

Just look at all the big boards, you will see a common pattern as Surtain started as a top 5 pick, we now see him in that top 15 range. Farley is staying firm in that top 10 range. Here are some of what the big boards have Surtain at: Kiper 15, Pauline 14, PFF 16, Draft Network 14. It's pretty clear there is now separation between Farley and Surtain. I actually think after Farley works out, we will be talking about him as a top 5 prospect.

You left off the boards that have Surtain ahead of Farley. McShay, Brooks and Zerlien among a few but I get it. One has the high floor while the other has a high ceiling. The Cowboys will draft one or the other probably.

 

[cnuball21]

If the team moves back from 10, think Joseph could be in the discussion if they move past 20. He has good film against both Pitts and DeVonta Smith.

Let's see it...have a link?

Smith went 9/144/2 in a game where Alabama didn't even need to throw the ball.

 

[Cowboyny]

Let's see it...have a link?

Smith went 9/144/2 in a game where Alabama didn't even need to throw the ball.

I haven't seen the film, just what what I heard from Voch/Cavanaugh. I will take a look at him soon.

 

[Cowboyny]

You left off the boards that have Surtain ahead of Farley. McShay, Brooks and Zerlien among a few but I get it. One has the high floor while the other has a high ceiling. The Cowboys will draft one or the other probably.

All the mocks have the Cowboys either taking one of those corners or Slater. I haven't seen any at all, mocking us anyone else.

 

[cnuball21]

I haven't seen the film, just what what I heard from Voch/Cavanaugh. I will take a look at him soon.

Per PFF he was only targeted 3 times the entire game...maybe he did play well but incredibly small sample size.

It's not his fault AL ran all over them but that doesn't really give you any indication of how he covered that game.

 

[Cowboyny]

Per PFF he was only targeted 3 times the entire game...maybe he did play well but incredibly small sample size.

It's not his fault AL ran all over them but that doesn't really give you any indication of how he covered that game.

Just saying what I heard. I will see it for my self in the coming days. He isn't in Dane's top 100, which suggests that scouting report above could be accurate, more of a developmental starter at the position.

 

[cnuball21]

Just saying what I heard. I will see it for my self in the coming days. He isn't in Dane's top 100, which suggests that scouting report above could be accurate, more of a developmental starter at the position.

Yea...if he tests out well I don't see him as being much different from R. Robinson as a prospect.

 

[Cowboyny]

Yea...if he tests out well I don't see him as being much different from R. Robinson as a prospect.

I wouldn't go that far, he was good enough to get recruited by LSU and play in one of the best conferences in college football. Robinson came from Tulsa where he didn't play against top level competition.

 

[baltcowboy]

All the mocks have the Cowboys either taking one of those corners or Slater. I haven't seen any at all, mocking us anyone else.

We have argued before about this before. Call me crazy but I would trade down and get the extra top 100 pick. Parsons at 15 with extra draft capital is intriguing.

 

[Cowboyny]

Let's see it...have a link?

Smith went 9/144/2 in a game where Alabama didn't even need to throw the ball.

I just watch tape of Alabama Offense against Kentucky Defense this year from Draft Breakdown. Saw two deep plays in which Joseph was on an island against Devonta Smith, first one he was stride for stride with Smith, incomplete pass. The next one deep, pass, Joseph once again in good coverage, but turns his head, locates the football and makes the interception. Pretty impressive play.

 

[Cowboyny]

OK I took my time and watch the tape on three SEC Games against Alabama, Florida & Georgia:

-Biggest thing that jumps out is his ball skills. He turns his head and has no problem locating the football.
-His speed looks legitimate as I haven't seen him beaten over the top.
-Looks like an average tackler, but is a willing tackler.
-Thought he did a tremendous job against Devonta Smith on 2 deep balls while in single, man coverage.
-Had an up and down game against Pitts, gave up a big play early on where he was juked out along with a good throw. 60 yd TD. A red zone jump ball penalty, but outside of that he locked down Pitts the rest of the day. This is common when 2 players are good, each will have their wins and losses.
-Big trash talker

I definitely see a high level CB prospect that reminds me a little of Marcus Peters. He is NOT a day 3 player by any means. Just based on his play, he looks like a legitimate 1st rd talent.

 

[cnuball21]

OK I took my time and watch the tape on three SEC Games against Alabama, Florida & Georgia:

-Biggest thing that jumps out is his ball skills. He turns his head and has no problem locating the football.
-His speed looks legitimate as I haven't seen him beaten over the top.
-Looks like an average tackler, but is a willing tackler.
-Thought he did a tremendous job against Devonta Smith on 2 deep balls while in single, man coverage.
-Had an up and down game against Pitts, gave up a big play early on where he was juked out along with a good throw. 60 yd TD. A red zone jump ball penalty, but outside of that he locked down Pitts the rest of the day. This is common when 2 players are good, each will have their wins and losses.
-Big trash talker

I definitely see a high level CB prospect that reminds me a little of Marcus Peters. He is NOT a day 3 player by any means. Just based on his play, he looks like a legitimate 1st rd talent.

After some add’l digging looks like PFF has yards per coverage snap around 91st out of power 5.

“91. Kelvin Joseph (Kentucky) (7.97)”

For reference Surtain was around 4.

 

[Cowboyny]

After some add’l digging looks like PFF has yards per coverage snap around 91st out of power 5.

“91. Kelvin Joseph (Kentucky) (7.97)”

For reference Surtain was around 4.

I'm not sure if the stat means a whole lot. Surtain has the benefit of a legitimate front 7, in which he spends less time in coverage. What I saw based on his film against probably the two hardest matchups in college football last year was a quality player who didn't look over matched. He has the looks of a 1st rd player, certainly not a mid day 3 player where many big boards are projecting him as.

 

[cnuball21]

I'm not sure if the stat means a whole lot. Surtain has the benefit of a legitimate front 7, in which he spends less time in coverage. What I saw based on his film against probably the two hardest matchups in college football last year was a quality player who didn't look over matched. He has the looks of a 1st rd player, certainly not a mid day 3 player where many big boards are projecting him as.

It should. Guys like Surtain, Horn and Stokes who are considered top CB prospects were all at or below 5 yards per coverage snap.

Again, he had 3 total targets against Alabama so using that as a major piece of your evaluation is narrow IMO.

Info is fairly limited on him so if you’ve got some other stats that warrant him being deserving of a 1st round selection I’m all ears.

 

[Gaede]

I guess I see can see Surtain and Diggs together because they played together in college. That is such an advantage. Farley will have to be ready because teams are going to attack him. I have to admit he does have potential because on tape he looks like a faster Diggs. The opt out and no mini mini camps scare me when it comes to Farley.

I'm with you. Surtain is my favorite target at 10. I think he's as close to a sure thing as you can get. The fact that him and Diggs already played in the same secondary is icing on the cake.