Kevin Ogletree-WR- Cowboys Jan. 21 - 10:37 am et

[CIWhitefish]

We just gotta be practical and explore what Jimmy said about the wr's. You find out what patterns they excel in, which route's are their strengths, and emphasize more on those. Then once they remaster those plays you slowly start to implement new ones. Sounds extreme for a guy who makes a ton of money but you don't take a 1/4 horse and throw him in a buggy race. You gotta use your athlete to his strengths.

Sometimes simplicity is the answer...

I'm with ya on that. Bottom line is he needs to improve. Romo has proven that if you are in postion you will get the ball.

 

[yimyammer]

I think when you make a big deal you need to do everything in your power to try and make it work, so yes they were willing to give RW more leeway why wouldn't you?

That does not change anything in terms of Ogletree and his lack of experience as a UDFA he actually saw more time than what the avg UDFA would see in their rookie year.

Coaches raved on him coming out of camp and made him a member of the 53 man roster not a PS player so they did feel good about him. I think they tried to put him in situation within games they felt he was comfortable with and he did a good job in executing those things

As I said I think coaches know a bit more about players development than the media the coaches see them day in and day out they know what that player understand and what he needs to improve on.

I have no doubt there are things they will ask Ogletree to work on during the off season to help him as a player so that he will compete. Face it is in no ones interest to have Ogletree fail or hold him back

My point really isn't about Ogletree, I don't have the expertise to say whether he or anyone for that matter should start.

However, I do seriously question how the experts or whomever made the decision to trade for Roy can miss this bad. It is my understanding that Jerry doesn't like to spend high draft picks on Receivers because of the high miss rate. Therefore it's less risky to bring in a veteran who is a known quantity that has played in the league. The Roy trade completely kills this philosphy. With all the film available on Roy and given the number of years he had already played, the Cowboys should have had a 90% or better confidence that Roy could come in and contribute immediately at a MUCH hgher level than he has.

The fact that he didn't is a massive failure by someone in the organization and since Jerry consistently proclaims he is responsible for all decisions, I place the blame on him.

The impact on the field matters, the impact on the salary cap matters, the impact on the ability to develop other players matters but what also matters that isn't widely discussed is the impact what Roy is paid makes on negotiations with other players playing the same position.

How is Jerry going to negotiate a lower contract for Miles when Roy is making a small fortune?

Had Jerry not made this trade and paid Roy so much, I think it would have been much easier to sign Miles for a lesser contract. Since there is a salary cap, I think it matters what you pay each player so you can sign as many quality guys as possible. The Roy contract set a really bad precedent and might have kept us from going further this year.

Imagine if we had taken Michael Oher with the #1 we gave to Detroit and then traded some of our other picks to get a decent receiver that could have easily outperformed Roy (someone should have known what we had in Miles and Jerry even said he could outperform TO so if they felt this why, why go after Roy if there were serious doubts about his ability, route running, etc?).

These are not decisions I am qualified to make, but they damn sure should be decisions that good football evaluators should be able to make.

This mistake could seriously hurt our future success. Our line is getting old, Romo is about to turn 30, Witten is going into his 7th year, Roy is going into his 7th year (how much longer does he need to develop?). These are key players in key positions that are getting old in terms of the NFL and if our line can't protect Romo, then his ability to play deep into his 30's will be severly hampered.

I can understand missing on draft picks, that happens, but when you give up the draft picks and pay what they did for Roy, missing this bad is simply inexcusable, especially when there appears to be evidence that players can be identified and developed that are better than Roy (Austin for one, Ogletee might be a possibility and who knows what Hurd might have done).

I don't blame Roy, but I do find fault in whomever thought it was wise to get Roy for the price we had to pay. The risk shouldn't have been that high, but apparently it was.

 

[Gzus]

They'll get Ogletree in the mix a lil more, i'm sure, because they saw what Austin did when given the chance (they would love another playmaker to emerge like that). Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Ogletree overtakes Roy Williams by the start of the season.

 

[Doomsday101]

My point really isn't about Ogletree, I don't have the expertise to say whether he or anyone for that matter should start.

However, I do seriously question how the experts or whomever made the decision to trade for Roy can miss this bad. It is my understanding that Jerry doesn't like to spend high draft picks on Receivers because of the high miss rate. Therefore it's less risky to bring in a veteran who is a known quantity that has played in the league. The Roy trade completely kills this philosphy. With all the film available on Roy and given the number of years he had already played, the Cowboys should have had a 90% or better confidence that Roy could come in and contribute immediately at a MUCH hgher level than he has.

The fact that he didn't is a massive failure by someone in the organization and since Jerry consistently proclaims he is responsible for all decisions, I place the blame on him.

The impact on the field matters, the impact on the salary cap matters, the impact on the ability to develop other players matters but what also matters that isn't widely discussed is the impact what Roy is paid makes on negotiations with other players playing the same position.

How is Jerry going to negotiate a lower contract for Miles when Roy is making a small fortune?

Had Jerry not made this trade and paid Roy so much, I think it would have been much easier to sign Miles for a lesser contract. Since there is a salary cap, I think it matters what you play each player so you can sign as many quality guys as possible. The Roy contract set a really bad precedent and might have kept us from going further this year.

Imagine if we had taken Michael Oher with the #1 we gave to Detroit and then traded some of our other picks to get a decent receiver that could have easily out performed Roy (someone should have known what we had in Miles and Jerry even said he could outperform To so if they felt this why, why go after Roy if there were serious doubts about his ability, route running, etc?).

These are not decisions I am qualified to make, but they damn sure should be decisions that good football evaluators should be able to make.

This mistake could seriously hurt our future success. Our line is getting old, Romo is about to turn 30, Witten is going into his 7th year, Roy is going into his 7th year (how much longer does he need to develop?). These are key players in key positions that are getting old interms of the NFL and if our line can't protect Romo, then his ability to play deep into his 30's will be severly hampered.

I can understand missing on draft picks, that happens, but when you give up the draft picks and pay what they did for ROy, missing this bad is simply inexcusable, especially when there appears to be evidence that players can be identified and developed that are better than Roy (Austin for one, Ogletee might be a possibility and who knows what Hurd might have done).

I don't blame Roy, bt I do find fault in whomever thought it was wise to get Roy for the price we had to pay. The risk shouldn't have been that high, but apparently it was.

Nothing here to really debate. If RW does not get it going and fails then it falls to the man who brought him here that is the GM/Owner. I don't spend alot of time playing the what if game, this is what it is and at this stage I would think RW needs to step up and earn his keep. I would say this upcoming season will be a make or break season for RW

 

[yimyammer]

Nothing here to really debate. If RW does not get it going and fails then it falls to the man who brought him here that is the GM/Owner. I don't spend alot of time playing the what if game, this is what it is and at this stage I would think RW needs to step up and earn his keep. I would say this upcoming season will be a make or break season for RW

By the way, I don't advocate cutting Roy right now. He has a huge roster bonus so his cost for 2010 is mostly a sunk cost, but if he doesn't drastically step up early and often, then I think he should be relegated to 3rd or 4th receiver with a few reliable plays and if that's all you can get out of him, then I think you have to make the move that is best for the salary cap going forward. If taking the hit in 2010 when there apparently wont be a cap frees up cap space in 2011 and beyond, then I think Jerry & co, has to bite the bullet and move on.

I still have hope for Roy and I certainly don't want him to fail, but at this point that's all I have.

Let me also make it clear, I'm not pissed off at Roy nor do I dislike him, he can't help what we paid to get him and you can't blame him for taking the great salary he's getting. This falls on the shoulders of management and that's where all my criticism lies.

This needs to be the last of the overpay moves by Jerry & co. They need to establish an image that a player will get paid well here, but the organization will no longer be fleeced. Players should be made to understand that it's a priviledge to represent the Dallas Cowboys and as a result more income opportunities will arise outside of football if they are successful here.

Plus there is no state income tax and real estate is much cheaper here than in places like New York and other larger markets, so playing in Dallas, even for a lessor contract, can net them more when it's all said and done. Creativity by management in this regard could go a long way towards our long term success and I want long term success, not just a flash in the pan.

 

[cowboyjoe]

I'm wondering if Dallas should explore the possibility of trading Roy Williams...

not from what i heard on the press conf from jerry wade, basically jerry said, money cap wise, he wont do that, and wade said its his job to get roy to maximize his talents on the field with plays that roy is good at;

 

[DaBoys4Life]

KO is legit.

 

[Doomsday101]

By the way, I don't advocate cutting Roy right now. He has a huge roster bonus so his cost for 2010 is mostly a sunk cost, but if he doesn't drastically step up early and often, then I think he should be relegated to 3rd or 4th receiver with a few reliable plays and if that's all you can get out of him, then I think you have to make the move that is best for the salary cap going forward. If taking the hit in 2010 when there apparently wont be a cap frees up cap space in 2011 and beyond, then I think Jerry & co, has to bite the bullet and move on.

I still have hope for Roy and I certainly don't want him to fail, but at this point that's all I have.

Let me also make it clear, I'm not pissed off at Roy nor do I dislike him, he can't help what we paid to get him and you can't blame him for taking the great salary he's getting. This falls on the shoulders of management and that's where all my criticism lies.

This needs to be the last of the overpay moves by Jerry & co. They need to establish an image that a player will get paid well here, but the organization will no longer be fleeced. Players should be made to understand that it's a priviledge to represent the Dallas Cowboys and as a result more income opportunities will arise outside of football if they are successful here.

Plus there is no state income tax and real estate is much cheaper here than in places like New York and other larger markets, so playing in Dallas, even for a lessor contract, can net them more when it's all said and done. Creativity by management in this regard could go a long way towards our long term success and I want long term success, not just a flash in the pan.

I agree with you. I wish I could say we will never have deal that does not work out ever again that however is not realistic for the Cowboys or for any team. In FA I see allot of teams who end up over paying for players it seems to be the nature of the beast. This does fall to Jerry no ifs about it.

For the sake and betterment of this team I hope like heck that RW will find a way to step up and show himself as a big time contributor to this team. If not then I don't see this lasting beyond this upcoming season.

I'm still in RW corner I have no reason to hate the man but business is business and I think he has to give Dallas a reason to remain a starter and member of this team

 

[yimyammer]

I agree with you. I wish I could say we will never have deal that does not work out ever again that however is not realistic for the Cowboys or for any team. In FA I see allot of teams who end up over paying for players it seems to be the nature of the beast. This does fall to Jerry no ifs about it.

For the sake and betterment of this team I hope like heck that RW will find a way to step up and show himself as a big time contributor to this team. If not then I don't see this lasting beyond this upcoming season.

I'm still in RW corner I have no reason to hate the man but business is business and I think he has to give Dallas a reason to remain a starter and member of this team

Agreed, fingers crossed.

PS. The bitter pill about Roy is that management (aka Jerry) got impatient and gave up draft picks to get Roy when it appears there was a very good chance they could have signed him without giving up the draft picks in the off season. Then they sign him to a ridiculoulsy huge contract before he had done anything for the Cowboys. Ugh!......Ok, I'll stop, I know I'm beating a dead horse

 

[BourbonBalz]

I'm wondering if Dallas should explore the possibility of trading Roy Williams...

For what? A can of shoe polish?

 

[Joe_Fan]

I'm wondering if Dallas should explore the possibility of trading Roy Williams...

You're not going to be able to get rid of Roy and his ridiculous contract.

The only possible way we might be able to trade him is if he's willing to restructure his contract.

 

[Fletch]

Kevin Ogletree-WR- Cowboys Jan. 21 - 10:37 am et


The San Antonio Express-News believes Roy Williams is "stopping the progress of undrafted rookie Kevin Ogletree."

The Dallas Morning News makes a similar argument, that Ogletree would have surpassed Williams by the playoffs had the Cowboys worked him into the offense earlier in the season. Ogletree is certainly a name to track in Dynasty leagues, but he's a longshot to take Williams' starting job before the start of the 2010 season.
Source: Dallas Morning News
Related: Roy Williams

For the passing attack to really work and be consistent, you have to have the pass protection. That's something that was lost in the Viking's game. We have a penchant for struggling against strong front sevens.

Time to upgrade the O-line and get some help either through free agency, or use our #1 pick on a stud O-lineman.

 

[NeonNinja]

For the passing attack to really work and be consistent, you have to have the pass protection. That's something that was lost in the Viking's game. We have a penchant for struggling against strong front sevens.

Time to upgrade the O-line and get some help either through free agency, or use our #1 pick on a stud O-lineman.

Yes, it's time to upgrade and get some depth along the oline.