Kiper mid season Rookie rating

[Hoofbite]

Where is Kiko Alonso on that list? Not sure how he's not #1. 3rd in tackles and even leads the league in INTs as a LB.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

So you're saying Dallas has actually invested into grooming a TE for 3 years down the road?

And you're okay with that?

I just don't believe its 3 years down the road, the play of TWill and Beasley has made us be able to wait more on Escobar. It does give us some added versatility with matchups, with Escobar on the team, and I believe it will pay off soon. I do believe the league is moving to bigger TEs, the bigger the better is what I want cause DBs can no longer take their heads off.

I wouldn't argue with drafting another TE to replace Hanna, who has done nothing either but his bad play has been ignored.....I would love to get a huge TE at like 6'8" or more to play the position cause I think thats where its going, and with Escobar being close to there, I'm excited to have him on this team. People here really underestimate how important the TE position is becoming, and how hard it is to find special guys there.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Mel Kiper is not a scout. He's an information gatherer who has managed to make a nice career for himself. His opinions are not ones to be highly valued.

I have no level of faith in his ability to evaluate players. Zero. His blue books lack any depth of evaluation of any player. Most of his writeups are regurgitations of their statistics, not any mention of what scheme the prospect fits, or anything about off the field issues (he is routinely poor in pointing them out).

What it boils down to is that he is more or less a well informed fan, and not someone who provides truly substantive views on prospects and their abilities. If you like and respect his views, all the better for you. I do not hold anything he says as having any value.

Then who do you listen to when it comes to draft prospects? Or do you watch hours of game film on each and every prospect? I value just about anybody opinion on a player if they watch every play of every game that the player has played in that season.

 

[Section446]

Where is Kiko Alonso on that list? Not sure how he's not #1. 3rd in tackles and even leads the league in INTs as a LB.

If he played anywhere but Buffalo, he'd be number on on that list. That guy has the looks of a very special talent.

 

[Section446]

i am not sure we will be running 12 formation that much anyway,Twill and Beasley are way better options than Escobar right now.

You say that they are better options, but how can we truly know if the guy never gets the chance to show what he's got?

 

[Plankton]

Then who do you listen to when it comes to draft prospects? Or do you watch hours of game film on each and every prospect? I value just about anybody opinion on a player if they watch every play of every game that the player has played in that season.

First off, I highly doubt that Kiper has watching any where near every snap of every top prospect. Not even close. It's not possible - no one has that much time.

Second, he does radio shows each Saturday during the season - he's largely not watching the games as they go on.

As far as who I listen to or read, I try to watch as much as I can. I used to live by Joel Buchsbaum - he was pretty objective, and not prone to hyperbole. Now, I will read guys on the web, and listen to the guys on TV (Kiper, Mayock, Daniel Jeremiah). On the web, NFL Draft Scout is pretty good ( they compile reports from multiple reporters who focus on this stuff, headed by Frank Cooney, who has voted for the Hall of Fame as a Raider rep).

Mostly, I tend to trust my own eyes for the guys I am aware of, and for those that I don't, I wait to see them play before deciding for myself.

 

[TrailBlazer]

I just don't believe its 3 years down the road, the play of TWill and Beasley has made us be able to wait more on Escobar. It does give us some added versatility with matchups, with Escobar on the team, and I believe it will pay off soon. I do believe the league is moving to bigger TEs, the bigger the better is what I want cause DBs can no longer take their heads off.

I wouldn't argue with drafting another TE to replace Hanna, who has done nothing either but his bad play has been ignored.....I would love to get a huge TE at like 6'8" or more to play the position cause I think thats where its going, and with Escobar being close to there, I'm excited to have him on this team. People here really underestimate how important the TE position is becoming, and how hard it is to find special guys there.

We just spent a 2nd on a TE and you want to draft another? Good grief. We don't need 2 or 3 good tight ends. We have dez and twill and Beasley. We're not gonna see much 12. Teams seem to be moving away from it. Just a fad. Teams usually only have one tight end they throw the ball to. We only need 1 good TE.

 

[CooterBrown]

He forgot more than you know.

And I forgot more than he knows. Words are so easy.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

We just spent a 2nd on a TE and you want to draft another? Good grief. We don't need 2 or 3 good tight ends. We have dez and twill and Beasley. We're not gonna see much 12. Teams seem to be moving away from it. Just a fad. Teams usually only have one tight end they throw the ball to. We only need 1 good TE.

I don't see it as a fad with the rules the way they are now, and I don't really care what teams 'usually' do, I'm looking at being ahead of the curve before someone else does it. I'm not saying draft one this coming year (none meet the criteria I said earlier with the height), but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted another one in the next few years at all. I think a tall TE (give me a 6'9" TE or even more) has a place in this game with the new rules of not being able to take their heads off, just a matter of when someone does it.

We will see plenty of 12 when our talent is able to force us to use it. Right now, we are using the WRs cause they are more ready to play, but you can bet when Escobar starts developing, he will force his way onto the field just like the WRs did.

 

[perrykemp]

For reference, this is what Bob McGinn collected from NFL scouts on on T. Williams pre-draft:

7th Ranked WR. TERRANCE WILLIAMS, Baylor (6-2, 207, 4.50, 2-3) - Spent five years in Waco, redshirting in 2008 and starting his final three seasons. "Coming out of that offense all those guys are behind because they haven't run a lot of different routes," one scout said. "Really strong. His 40 isn't as great as some other guys' but they talk about carrying your pads. That's him. Guys put their hands on him and he's still running as fast. He's just really raw." Caught 201 passes for 3,294 yards (16.4) and 27 TDs. "I don't like him as much as the guy from there last year (Kendall Wright)," said another scout. "He's a deep threat outside the numbers." Calls Dallas home.

 

[Redball Express]

Kiper is an idiot who has no more insight than any of us. Because I put no value on his draft evaluations, I put no value on his rookie evaluations.

You know..

Kipper may come off to some as an idiot but I give the guy credit for single-handedly inventing draft watching and making a killing for himself financially.

Idiot..?

Not really.

 

[Hoofbite]

I just don't believe its 3 years down the road, the play of TWill and Beasley has made us be able to wait more on Escobar. It does give us some added versatility with matchups, with Escobar on the team, and I believe it will pay off soon. I do believe the league is moving to bigger TEs, the bigger the better is what I want cause DBs can no longer take their heads off.

Beasley and Williams may have reduced the need for Escobar to actually be involved but that doesn't explain why they haven't tried to take advantage of the mismatches that you're speaking of.

DBs may not be able to take their heads off but as we have already seen with Dustin Keller, leg shots are pretty much the alternative.

I wouldn't argue with drafting another TE to replace Hanna, who has done nothing either but his bad play has been ignored.....I would love to get a huge TE at like 6'8" or more to play the position cause I think thats where its going, and with Escobar being close to there, I'm excited to have him on this team. People here really underestimate how important the TE position is becoming, and how hard it is to find special guys there.

It's hard to find the Jimmy Graham's and Rob Gronkonski's. It's also hard to find pretty much any player who becomes the best at their position. Aside from being the best receiving options their teams have and getting a ton of targets because of that alone, they're the gold standard for receiving TEs right now.

Finding an athletic receiving TE though, not so much. Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron, and lately Jordan Reed. The Falcons have a rookie 6'8'' TE they've started getting involved over the last few weeks. All guys who were taken mid draft in the last couple years and nobody had heard of any of them prior to this season. These receiving TEs are popping up more often as time goes by.

In any event the TE position isn't becoming so important that you would draft a guy and groom as though he were a QB. Most of the teams are still grabbing their TEs from the mid rounds.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Beasley and Williams may have reduced the need for Escobar to actually be involved but that doesn't explain why they haven't tried to take advantage of the mismatches that you're speaking of.

DBs may not be able to take their heads off but as we have already seen with Dustin Keller, leg shots are pretty much the alternative.

It's hard to find the Jimmy Graham's and Rob Gronkonski's. It's also hard to find pretty much any player who becomes the best at their position. Aside from being the best receiving options their teams have and getting a ton of targets because of that alone, they're the gold standard for receiving TEs right now.

Finding an athletic receiving TE though, not so much. Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron, and lately Jordan Reed. The Falcons have a rookie 6'8'' TE they've started getting involved over the last few weeks. All guys who were taken mid draft in the last couple years and nobody had heard of any of them prior to this season. These receiving TEs are popping up more often as time goes by.

In any event the TE position isn't becoming so important that you would draft a guy and groom as though he were a QB. Most of the teams are still grabbing their TEs from the mid rounds.

Well I forgot about Toilolo, guess they are already running with my idea of a tall TE, dang it. If its not a premium position, then most positions can be filled in the mid rounds to be honest, with of course more talented players at non-premium positions going higher. Well apparently they felt that Escobar was a big enough talent to deserve the pick, whether we as fans agree on it or not.

At the beginning of the season, everyone thought they had the next big thing at TE with guys like Jared Cook thinking they were All-Pros. I don't believe finding an athletic receiving TE is as easy to find as you seem to think, especially one with the potential to be the total package. Julius is a Peyton Manning product, Jordan is good but not great in an offense without much else, and Reed isn't the type of guy I'm looking for cause he is only 6'2" and not like he is taking the league my storm....it was just one game.

Everyone hates the pick of Escobar, and in retrospect everyone can sit there and say we needed this, that, or the other. We had just picked an OL, doubling down there just wasn't going to happen with this FO, and they felt they had plenty of depth on the DL as noone knew the situations that would develop there this season. Am I ok they took a prospect they ranked high to develop.......yes cause I would rather them do that than reach for some lineman and fail miserably so everyone can jump on them for that too.

 

[ghst187]

Kiper is an idiot who has no more insight than any of us.

totally agree, funny how insecure he is around Mayock and other guys that try to talk about the draft....Kiper's rug almost starts spinning if they disagree with anything he says.

 

[CooterBrown]

You know..

Kipper may come off to some as an idiot but I give the guy credit for single-handedly inventing draft watching and making a killing for himself financially.

Idiot..?

Not really.

Okay. I have to give you that one. I wish I could make that kind of money for guessing about football prospects. Perhaps idiot isn't the right word. How about "self-proclaimed expert?"

 

[Redball Express]

Okay. I have to give you that one. I wish I could make that kind of money for guessing about football prospects. Perhaps idiot isn't the right word. How about "self-proclaimed expert?"

well..that's a given.hahha..
Sure.

 

[Cowboy_Shawn]

First off, I highly doubt that Kiper has watching any where near every snap of every top prospect. Not even close. It's not possible - no one has that much time.

Actually it is possible

I'm sure ESPN has provided him a video editing staff who can trim down game film of a particular player. They strip away all the commercial breaks, idle time between plays, and plays thay don't involve the prospect in question.

So by the time Mel gets the video it's maybe of 10 minutes of tape for an entire game.

He can probably watch every play from an entire season in only a few hours.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Chicago had no problem working MB into their passing game, how come Dallas couldnt do it at ALL?

1. Jason Witten > Dante Rosario - not even close
2. They only have 2 TE's
3. 22-231-1 last 5 games - not much impact

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

He does bear a striking resemblance to Eddie Munster.......