Kirwan: More than just sacks go into the ranking of defensive MVPs... Ware

[AbeBeta]

I do think that after Ware's high profile 3 sack day (2 coming against the generation's best LT) that he's the front runner here.

HOWEVER, I also think that he needs a few things to put it in the bag: a) 5 more sacks - if Ware gets 20 sacks on the season and no one else does, he's going to pull more votes because of the gaudy number; b) a few more forced fumbles. For a guy with 15 sacks, his FF numbers are low. This really doesn't indicate much about his performance but the FF is a stat that some writers really love. c) Some form of defensive TD. A single TD makes the whole state line look nicer, plus it gets you on SportsCenter.

 

[Future]

Nobody does more for a defense than Ware, and I don't care what the numbers say.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

you have to read Kirwin's comments with the understanding that he is forever carrying water for anything related to the North East or Bill Parcels,,, he makes some valid points occassionally but his bias is readily apparent, IMO

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Ware is the DPOY in my book, the guy is unreal with his abilities....

 

[tyke1doe]

Well, I already question his numbers since he did not get the pass defensed by Ware in the game a couple of weeks ago - against Gore I believe - awesome play by Ware!

Good catch. I couldn't believe Ware had no PDs when he's out in coverage so often.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I do think that after Ware's high profile 3 sack day (2 coming against the generation's best LT) that he's the front runner here.

HOWEVER, I also think that he needs a few things to put it in the bag: a) 5 more sacks - if Ware gets 20 sacks on the season and no one else does, he's going to pull more votes because of the gaudy number; b) a few more forced fumbles. For a guy with 15 sacks, his FF numbers are low. This really doesn't indicate much about his performance but the FF is a stat that some writers really love. c) Some form of defensive TD. A single TD makes the whole state line look nicer, plus it gets you on SportsCenter.

I agree with the FF's, however I believe Ware is still having the best season out of all those guys simply because of his versality... A great example is when he ran with Frank Gore and broke up the pass on the wheel route.

 

[tyke1doe]

Why? Because you chose to put together the statistics that best suited your needs? Call my crazy, but a forced fumble is less about a great defensive play and more about a running back's failure. Recovered fumbles? Are you kidding? That's far more about being in the right place at the right time. And what the heck are these "tackle" statistics? I have a feeling each of these guys have made more tackles than what is being shown here. Way to be clear about what the heck you're talking about, Kirwan.

Tell that to LT.

Lawrence Taylor was great at causing fumbles because of his tomahawk chop.

It's as much about a great defensive play as it can be about a running back's failures. But, by and large, running backs don't simply just drop the ball ala Westbrook in that Eagles-Cowboys game.

Usually, they come from hits. Granted, a running back should learn how to carry the ball. But even the good ones will cough it up if they get hit on the ball or tomahawk chopped. It's really hard to tell without looking at the tape which is which. But I'd bet more force fumbles are the result of a great hit.

 

[tyke1doe]

I believe Harrison has 3 PDs, not 4. Whenever incorrect stats are used, you have to wonder about a person who generated a particular formula.

Do you get the irony in your statement?

You aren't sure how many PDs Harrison has yet you question Kirwan about incorrect stats?

It amazes me so many of you are so bent out of shape over his analysis.

It's not meant to be a perfect depiction. Yes, he may have gotten a few stats incorrect. So what?

It still doesn't take away the fact that Ware is one of the best, if not the best, defenders in the league.

And I don't know if he would be as focused on the Cowboys as the average fan since he has to track the progress of players on 32 teams.

Relax. It's all good.

 

[tomson75]

Do you get the irony in your statement?

You aren't sure how many PDs Harrison has yet you question Kirwan about incorrect stats?

It amazes me so many of you are so bent out of shape over his analysis.

It's not meant to be a perfect depiction. Yes, he may have gotten a few stats incorrect. So what?

It still doesn't take away the fact that Ware is one of the best, if not the best, defenders in the league.

And I don't know if he would be as focused on the Cowboys as the average fan since he has to track the progress of players on 32 teams.

Relax. It's all good.

It's called critiquing his analysis. He gets paid to do this, and he does a poor job....then he deserves to be called on it. It's pretty simple, really.

I'm essentially a consumer...as in I want to read about this stuff, but as a consumer, I think I deserve a better product. I'd be willing to bet there are several posters on this forum that could produce a FAR superior product than Kirwan has here.

It's not about being 'bent out of shape'.

 

[03EBZ06]

Do you get the irony in your statement?

You aren't sure how many PDs Harrison has yet you question Kirwan about incorrect stats?

It amazes me so many of you are so bent out of shape over his analysis.

It's not meant to be a perfect depiction. Yes, he may have gotten a few stats incorrect. So what?

It still doesn't take away the fact that Ware is one of the best, if not the best, defenders in the league.

And I don't know if he would be as focused on the Cowboys as the average fan since he has to track the progress of players on 32 teams.

Relax. It's all good.

How about this, my belief of Harrison's PDs is correct while Kirwan is wrong. I could have been an awesome person and tear Kirwan into pieces for using incorrect stats but I choose not to.

I don't care who gets DPOY but if he is getting to paid to analyze then he should use correct stats and provide a good product for the consumers.

Maybe people like you don't care for attention to detail but I do and Kirwan's lack of attention to detail detracts from his message, as evident in this thread.

Nobody is getting bent out of shape so stop being silly and try to over dramatize disagreements.

 

[percyhoward]

KD (knock downs) vs. Hurries
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't a "hurry" when a pass rusher forces an incompletion or interception? IOW, by definition, a hurry is a good thing for a pass rusher.

But if a knock down only means just that--that the QB got planted in the turf--then a knock down isn't worth very much if the pass was completed. Quite often this happens for long gains.

And yes, it's bizzarre to count tackles and completely ignore tackles for loss.

 

[speedkilz88]

Do you get the irony in your statement?

You aren't sure how many PDs Harrison has yet you question Kirwan about incorrect stats?

It amazes me so many of you are so bent out of shape over his analysis.

It's not meant to be a perfect depiction. Yes, he may have gotten a few stats incorrect. So what?

It still doesn't take away the fact that Ware is one of the best, if not the best, defenders in the league.

And I don't know if he would be as focused on the Cowboys as the average fan since he has to track the progress of players on 32 teams.

Relax. It's all good.

Let it go man.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I like the idea behind this...*trying* to put some stats together in order to get an idea of who the defensive MVP should be. To me, that beats just going completely with your gut since it's not very accurate and I doubt anybody has thorougly watched every single play of every single game (well, outside of KC Joyner).

However, the tackle stats need to go since they are not an official stat and for good reason, tackle numbers usually have HUGE discrepencies. I don't know how Kirwan missed the 2 passes defensed by Ware either.

But, I applaud the effort..just needs more accuracy.




YAKUZA