Kitna gets vocal

[The Emperor]

It must have been after Kitna took the Lions to 0-16.

To be fair, he only quarterbacked 4 of those games early in the season before he got injured. The rest were quarterbacked by Dan Orlovsky and Daunte Culpepper.

 

[michaeljr1186]

the more kitna plays, the more i like him.

 

[Stautner]

I have seen Romo get after guys along the OL and that is just what the camera showed.

Maybe I've missed it, or maybe you and I have different ideas of what "getting after" a guy is. I've certainly seen Romo talk to guys, and I've seen a look of disappointment, but I can't say I've really seen him jump on someone.

Truthfully though, I'm not a big fan of jumping down a guy's throat several minutes later, or at the end of a drive. I think a QB has to be firm and commanding at that point, but the time to get onto someone is immediately. that's when it has an impact. Several minutes later on the sideline is more the time to get it squared away, although, again, I think the QB has to be firm and in command and the receiver has to come away knowing what the QB says is what goes, and that he's the subordinate to the QB.

Like the deal with Kitna yesterday. I liked that he barked at Gronk, but several minutes later, when the drive is over, their shouldn't be a need to jump down Gronk's throat. There should, however, be a strong and lasting impression that Gronk needs to get his stuff together.

 

[Idgit]

It is based off the reports from people close to the situation who say Kitna has a much better feel and much better command of the team. Romo is cliquish, and I think it shows with Kitna at the helm.

Really? Who's compared the two publicly? Gurode was the only one I knew who took a crack at it, and he said they were both great leaders, and there wasn't a difference between the two in that regard.

 

[DanTanna]

Kitna - GET IN HERE

Witten - get in

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

You're kidding, right? The Kitna led offense consistently puts up big yards and big points, yet it's the Kitna led offense that is to blame for the Saints and Eagles putting up 30 points apeice?

I suppose it's the Kitna led offense that's to blame for the Colts and Washington putting up 35 and 30 points to make those games close. Doesn't matter that the Kitna led offense put up 38 and 33, it was still their fault it was close.

Is that how it works?

I like Kitna, and I'm not putting the losses on him. But if Romo is playing those games we score 40+ against each of those Ds. You might have missed the part where Romo is a better QB than Kitna, but he is. By a very wide margin.

 

[SDCowboy]

What bothers me most are the people that say Romo's teammates don't talk about his leadership. Then when people say they do and post the links, etc (and his teammates have talked about it many times), their response back is 'what are they supposed to say'. :laugh2:

 

[NextGenBoys]

You still haven't answered this question, and that doesn't mean you avoided it. You probably didn't see it. So, I'll post it again:

------

When did you come to this conclusion [that Kitna is a better leader than Romo]?

After he blew a 20-7 lead against the Giants?

After we got blown out by the Jaguars?

Or after we got blown out by the Packers?

And were you impressed with Kitna's leadership in 2007 when the Detroit Lions started out 6-2 and then lost the next six games to ultimately finish 7-9?

I'm not saying these things to denigrate Kitna. I'm saying these things so you folks don't get crazy and believe he's somehow better than Romo. I think Kitna is benefitting from a Jason Garrett-coached team that isn't lax and lazy and lacking attention to detail like we had with Wade Phillips. That's the reality of the matter.

Your first three examples are clearly sarcastic, therefore not even worthy of a response.

But to answer your question, yes, I was impressed with his leadership in 2007. I've liked his leadership since he was with Cincinnati, and Kitna has been praised for his leadership in nearly every team he's been on.

 

[The Emperor]

Your first three examples are clearly sarcastic, therefore not even worthy of a response.

But to answer your question, yes, I was impressed with his leadership in 2007. I've liked his leadership since he was with Cincinnati, and Kitna has been praised for his leadership in nearly every team he's been on.

You didn't want to answer my first three questions because they were too sarcastic? Maybe you missed this bit by John Dryden, a famous English satirist in the 1600s:

"The end of satire is the amendment of vices by correction, and he who writes honestly is no more an enemy to the offender, than the physician is to the patient when he prescribes harsh remedies."

So, I think you should answer them. They are pretty sarcastic, but they do prove a valuable point. Where was his leadership then?

I think Garrett is the reason why Kitna looks so well. And I hope it will be the reason why Romo will look better in 2011.

 

[Stautner]

I like Kitna, and I'm not putting the losses on him. But if Romo is playing those games we score 40+ against each of those Ds. You might have missed the part where Romo is a better QB than Kitna, but he is. By a very wide margin.

It's a huge stretch to assume we would put up 40+ if Romo were playing. The last time the Cowboys scored 40+ in a game was Week 2 of the 2008 season, and the last time before that was Week 1 of the 2007, so it's a big stretch to just assume Romo would have caused that to happen in these two games.

As for those D's we lost to, the Saints are 9th in the NFL in scoring defense at 19.3 points per game, yet we scored 27, and they are 8th in the NFL in yardage allowed at 312 yards per game, yet Kitna gained 313 yards through the air, and the Cowboys gained 457 as a team.

Lets further consider that Kitna completed 71% of his passes for 313 yards in 1 game, and 69% of his passes for 242 yards in the other game, and in both games the Cowboys won the time of possession battle, meaning the Kitna led offense was able to hold onto the ball and sustain drives.

Would you have expected Romo to dramatically exceed those numbers?

And lets not forget that the Saints and Eagles are two of the better teams in the NFL.

 

[Idgit]

Your first three examples are clearly sarcastic, therefore not even worthy of a response.

But to answer your question, yes, I was impressed with his leadership in 2007. I've liked his leadership since he was with Cincinnati, and Kitna has been praised for his leadership in nearly every team he's been on.

I was, too. Especially in Detroit, where the got absolutely mauled for saying he thought they were a 10-6 team.

But then, I'm impressed with Tony's leadership, too. I think he's a hugely underrated player, both in terms of his skills and his intangibles.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

It's a huge stretch to assume we would put up 40+ if Romo were playing. The last time the Cowboys scored 40+ in a game was Week 2 of the 2008 season, and the last time before that was Week 1 of the 2007, so it's a big stretch to just assume Romo would have caused that to happen in these two games.

As for those D's we lost to, the Saints are 9th in the NFL in scoring defense at 19.3 points per game, yet we scored 27, and they are 8th in the NFL in yardage allowed at 312 yards per game, yet Kitna gained 313 yards through the air, and the Cowboys gained 457 as a team.

Lets further consider that Kitna completed 71% of his passes for 313 yards in 1 game, and 69% of his passes for 242 yards in the other game, and in both games the Cowboys won the time of possession battle, meaning the Kitna led offense was able to hold onto the ball and sustain drives.

Would you have expected Romo to dramatically exceed those numbers?

And lets not forget that the Saints and Eagles are two of the better teams in the NFL.

To answer your question, yes I think Romo would've exceeded the numbers Kitna put up against those teams, easily. Again, I like Kitna, but it's like asking if I think Adrian Peterson would perform at a higher level than Felix Jones if we plugged him in to either of those two games. Actually, the margin between Romo and Kitna is wider than the margin between those guys.

 

[NextGenBoys]

I was, too. Especially in Detroit, where the got absolutely mauled for saying he thought they were a 10-6 team.

But then, I'm impressed with Tony's leadership, too. I think he's a hugely underrated player, both in terms of his skills and his intangibles.

I agree in that Tony is underrated as a leader.

All I've said in this thread is I think Kitna is a better leader. From everything I've read/seen on the guy since...2002 or so, he is phenomenal leader.

 

[SDCowboy]

To answer your question, yes I think Romo would've exceeded the numbers Kitna put up against those teams, easily. Again, I like Kitna, but it's like asking if I think Adrian Peterson would perform at a higher level than Felix Jones if we plugged him in to either of those two games. Actually, the margin between Romo and Kitna is wider than the margin between those guys.

If Romo was in the game yesterday, he gets 3-4TDs easy.

 

[NextGenBoys]

You didn't want to answer my first three questions because they were too sarcastic? Maybe you missed this bit by John Dryden, a famous English satirist in the 1600s:

"The end of satire is the amendment of vices by correction, and he who writes honestly is no more an enemy to the offender, than the physician is to the patient when he prescribes harsh remedies."

So, I think you should answer them. They are pretty sarcastic, but they do prove a valuable point. Where was his leadership then?

I think Garrett is the reason why Kitna looks so well. And I hope it will be the reason why Romo will look better in 2011.

You've got to be kidding me. Let's get real here dude, this type of stuff is kiddy crap. How can you assess someone's leadership on the field when they haven't seen the field? Kitna sat on the sideline for all of 09 and half of 2010. You can't really lead too much when you're sitting on the sideline.

So to answer your question, Kitna's leadership was still there, but there was no real opportunity to showcase it.

Yes Garrett is part of the reason why Kitna is playing well. I was on the Garrett band wagon when many wanted him fired and before many of this board jumped on it after he was named interim coach. I was one of the few who predicted a 5-3 finish, when everyone else though we'd still flop. Garrett deserves much of the credit.

But Jon Kitna has been a tremendous leader in every team he's been on. And that has nothing to do with Jason Garrett.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Brady yells at teammates = awesome
Kitna yells at teammates = awesome
Peyton not yelling = poised
Romo not yelling = jag

This is funny but a couple things.

Peyton does yell. He gets in peoples faces. There is a great example of that on the Americas Game show where he and his center got into it big time.

So it happens.


Brady only started to yell this year, really. He was a winner, in the past, without it.


I don't recall Joe Montana doing a whole heck of a lot of yelling, though I'm sure he did when need be.

And Troy would get on people, for sure, where it was needed.

So QBs can win both ways. Yelling, for the sake of yelling, won't get it done.

When did Brady start yelling?? I always thought he was more Tom "cool" Brady. But I noticed hes started barking lately.

Really only this year I believe. There wasn't a whole lot of it before this year. But he did it when he felt he needed to.

Again, this thread seemed to prompt a lot of people to make these kinds of comments even without there being a bandwagon of people taking the otehr position. Nobody had to even say anything - the topic of Kitna yelling at Gronk was enough to cause people to get defensive about Romo.

Maybe.

But it wouldn't have taken long, for certain, for people to come in here and say "See this is what Romo lacks in being a leader".

Same people who pretend that no one on this team ever listens to him when he's speaking, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary on the subject.

Now I don't think Tony is perfect, that's certain. There are lots of things that I'd like to see him improve on. It's when people make up stupid things, like this, to try and downgrade him that is beyond stupid.

 

[BlueStar3398]

Witten was a little bit nicer about it. :laugh2:

 

[BubbleScreen]

I'm thrilled that Kitna is our backup QB. He was perfectly right to call out Gronk and get him to the huddle faster or whatever.

The problem here is that a lot of folks seem to equate yelling at teammates to leadership. Leadership is not being a loudmouth know-it-all *******. In football, for a QB to be a leader, he must direct the offense, keep guys on the same page, and hold players accountable- including himself.

Sometimes that's yelling at Gronkowski to get on the field. Yelling at the offense on the sidelines that, in the words of Aikman 'we're a ******** embarrassment out there'. But more often, it's the quiet confidence in the huddle. The tip to the WR that helps him beat the corner on a crucial catch. Mentioning, as Joe Montana did prior to a game-winning SB drive, that he saw John Candy in the stands to settle his team down. The leader knows his team and how to get the best out of each of his teammates. Leadership is not completing a third down pass. It's usually not going to show up on the stat page. A lot of times teams win and lose despite apparent differences in leadership.

But Romo is a great leader. He has always been highly effective in the two minute drill. He excels at playing under pressure, with his hair on fire. He does not get the credit he should for the two minute stuff or his leadership. But he doesn't complain about credit. He doesn't complain about much of anything. Leaders don't complain.

Yes, Kitna is a good leader. He's a good quarterback. But for my money, I take Romo in both areas, any day, and especially on Sundays.

 

[basedGAWD]

Your analysis of Kitna as a leader is based on what? How vocal he is in between plays? Anything else that's relevant that we're able to see as fans?

the beat writers all say, kitna is one of the most respected players in the locker room. he has assimilated himself better than romo has.

plus he is much more fiery and passionate on the field and more vocal.

hasn't one of our biggest complaints been that this team doesn't have enough vocal leaders, too many quiet lead by example types?

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

My wife said "Who is he yelling at?" and I simply said "the rookie that got Romo killed" and than she just groaned.

I groaned too...