Kobe Bryant Announces Official Retirement

[LittleBoyBlue]

I will leave it here.

No real knowledgeable "basketball" person is going to agree with you @Yakuza Rich



Some of the greatest of all time... In no order and not going back to far...

Jordan (greatest ever)
Kobe, lebron, etc

Wade was very good. I don't know that I have heard him as "great" or....?

 

[bounce]

I feel like personal feelings about the person drive your opinion of Kobe as a player, and that's totally fine, but I agree that you're not going to find too many impartial people who agree with you. He's every bit able to be mentioned in the same breath as Michael Jordan.

I don't like including Wilt, Russell, Cousy, Mikan, Robertson, etc - because the game is absolutely different from their generation. Just in modern day type players, Kobe is a top 10 guy to ever play.

In no order, I'd have them as Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Shaq, Bird, Kareem, (insert #10). But, Kobe is definitely in that discussion.

 

[CATCH17]

Outside of Jordan's initial retirement year, Pippen was not a good player without Jordan. He wasn't good at Houston or Portland.

What Jordan had in terms of help was he eventually had arguably the greatest defensive team ever assembled with himself, Pippen (excellent defender), Rodman (all-time great defender) and Ron Harper (one of the best defending guards in the past 30 years).

The game has also changed in recent years to being more of a perimeter game. But in Jordan and Kobe's prime, having a center was key and Jordan had Bill Wennington and Luc Longley while Kobe had one of the greatest centers of all-time to play with.

But for years ESPN in particular tried to paint Kobe as better than Jordan. Anybody with half of a brain knew that was nonsense and that's why I always looked at Kobe as being overrated.

What Kobe did do (which hurt the game in its own right) was he convinced teams and players that you didn't need to be a 7 footer to jump from HS to the NBA. Kevin Garnett was one of the most freakish athletes on the court that I had ever seen in HS and he was very NBA ready and people still doubted if he could make the jump. And after he was successful there was still people that thought Jerry West was crazy for wanting Kobe. But, once Kobe made it in the NBA, then every HS player with any talent thought they could bypass college.




YR

Agree... There are so many players that are better than Kobe but he gets hyped up so much and that is why he is overrated.


Shaq, Gasol and Bynum were always what made those teams so good.

 

[DFWJC]

All-time NBA scoring leaders.

Pretty amazing that he's #3 and could be there awhile.
LeBron has a real shot to catch him but I'm not sure anyone else still playing on that list will, The only one with even a remote chance is Dirk.

1Kareem Abdul-Jabbar__38,387
2Karl Malone__36,928
3KOBE BRYANT__32,683
4Michael Jordan__32,292
5Wilt Chamberlain__31,419
6Shaquille O'Neal__28,596
7DIRK NOWITZKI__28,393
8Moses Malone__27,409
9Elvin Hayes__27,313
10Hakeem Olajuwon__26,946
11Oscar Robertson__26,710
12Dominique Wilkins__26,668
13John Havlicek__26,395
14TIM DUNCAN__26,134
15KEVIN GARNETT__25,991
16PAUL PIERCE__25,977
17Alex English__25,613
18LeBRON JAMES__25,349
19Reggie Miller__25,279
20Jerry West__25,192
21Patrick Ewing__24,815
22RAY ALLEN__24,505
23Allen Iverson__24,368
24Charles Barkley__23,757
25VINCE CARTER__23,609

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I have never been a KoME fan

I wish I could visit a parallel universe where Tim Duncan did not play for the Spurs...wonder what you would call him. Probably TiME Duncan, guess there is no reason for me to go now

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Agree... There are so many players that are better than Kobe but he gets hyped up so much and that is why he is overrated.


Shaq, Gasol and Bynum were always what made those teams so good.

If you want to argue Gasol, you'd be wrong, but at least an argument can be made. But Bynum? There is literally no intelligent argument that can be made that Bynum meant more to the Laker championship teams than Kobe.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I've always thought Wade was overrated, but Kobe to me takes the cake. I can't ignore all of the people in the media and the fans that thought he was on par or better than Jordan when Kobe was in his prime. That's why I said 'most overrated.' I never saw anybody more overhyped than Kobe. Go google 'Kobe better than Jordan' and there's tons of results that will follow. And this was nothing compared to the talk back from 2001 to 2007.






YR

To me, most of the Kobe and Jordan comparisons were centered around Kobe at age 22 vs Jordan at age 22 and Kobe at 23 vs Jordan at 23, and so on and so on. And I never thought it was an accuracte comparisons, considering Kobe at age 22 was in the league for 4 years, vs Jordan being a rookie at 22 or so. But it was a small minority that attempted to actually say Kobe was better than Jordan (if any) and most just stated a case that he would one day be better (which never should have been the conclusion that some saw).

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Outside of Jordan's initial retirement year, Pippen was not a good player without Jordan. He wasn't good at Houston or Portland.

He was awfully good in 1995 as well prior to Jordan playing in what, the final 17 games? And yea, he wasn't good in the 1999 season and onward where he was 33+

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Stockton is one of the all time great point guards. He was the all-time assists and steals leader.

Malone is #2 in points and #6 in rebounds. Both were far more efficient on offense than Kobe. Kobe was a better defender by far.

What hurt them was they played in Utah and they couldn't beat Jordan and the Bulls.





YR

there are many of arguments for where stockton stands as a point...
payton, and kidd have arguments of being better players (not to mention KJ used to kill him in all head to head matchups). surely zeke.

but again, these are arguments.

I respected your original opinion (save the quote "He's not a bad player"...which is a major understatement).

But talent, accomplishment wise, big moment wise, or marketability wise neither Stockton or Malone rates with KB.

Like him or not.... and I'm not even a fan of the guy.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

I've always thought Wade was overrated, but Kobe to me takes the cake. I can't ignore all of the people in the media and the fans that thought he was on par or better than Jordan when Kobe was in his prime. That's why I said 'most overrated.' I never saw anybody more overhyped than Kobe. Go google 'Kobe better than Jordan' and there's tons of results that will follow. And this was nothing compared to the talk back from 2001 to 2007.






YR

Not many pundits will argue that KB is better than MJ.. KB was a copy of his idol... that may be an argument that your are assuming exists. But It really doesn't (among basketball minds that is), not even in KB's mind. He copied greatness.. Whatever you are googling holds no real merit.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

John Stockton
Karl Malone

You'll be in the minority on these two players. They are both obviously all time greats, but neither really was as good as Kobe.

Malone is arguably one of the greatest offensively skilled players to play power forward, but for his position, you'd have a tough time arguing that he was anything more than an average defender. 4 times he made either the first time all NBA team or second (3 first teams late in his career, 1 second very early). Kobe while not as efficient as a scorer (which is to be expected, a skilled PF typically doesn't have those very low % high shot nights), was Malone's equal offensively (both around 25 ppg) but was much better defensively. 12 times he was all defensive first team or second (9 first team vs 3 second team), and he's always been viewed as one of the better perimeter defenders in the league during his prime. Obviously he was never really mentioned as the best, whether it was Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen, who were defensive specialist and not really complete players, but he was typically mentioned right below them.

Stockton is kinda the opposite, he get's far too little credit at how great of a defender he was for his position, but I do think Kobe edges him out there. Offensively, I think Kobe edges him out as well, as great of a floor general as Stockton was, he was never the scoring threat that other great PGs were.

 

[Biggems]

All-time NBA scoring leaders.

Pretty amazing that he's #3 and could be there awhile.
LeBron has a real shot to catch him but I'm not sure anyone else still playing on that list will, The only one with even a remote chance is Dirk.

1Kareem Abdul-Jabbar__38,387
2Karl Malone__36,928
3KOBE BRYANT__32,683
4Michael Jordan__32,292
5Wilt Chamberlain__31,419
6Shaquille O'Neal__28,596
7DIRK NOWITZKI__28,393
8Moses Malone__27,409
9Elvin Hayes__27,313
10Hakeem Olajuwon__26,946
11Oscar Robertson__26,710
12Dominique Wilkins__26,668
13John Havlicek__26,395
14TIM DUNCAN__26,134
15KEVIN GARNETT__25,991
16PAUL PIERCE__25,977
17Alex English__25,613
18LeBRON JAMES__25,349
19Reggie Miller__25,279
20Jerry West__25,192
21Patrick Ewing__24,815
22RAY ALLEN__24,505
23Allen Iverson__24,368
24Charles Barkley__23,757
25VINCE CARTER__23,609

considering how long he has played and how many shots he has put up, I am not surprised. What does surprise me however, is the fact that Kobe hasn't gotten half the calls that clown James Harden gets. Some of the greatest in the game, MJ, Magic, Bird, etc., would get killed and not get to the line....but you just look at Harden and he gets FTs. So imagine how many points MJ or Kobe would have if they got the Harden treatment from the refs.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

considering how long he has played and how many shots he has put up, I am not surprised. What does surprise me however, is the fact that Kobe hasn't gotten half the calls that clown James Harden gets. Some of the greatest in the game, MJ, Magic, Bird, etc., would get killed and not get to the line....but you just look at Harden and he gets FTs. So imagine how many points MJ or Kobe would have if they got the Harden treatment from the refs.

hahahaha.....

Harden is clever, but I don't like watching him... he has an ugly game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Kareem was the Greatest Player I ever saw play.

 

[cowboyeric8]

How come Kobe doesn't get the Hardy treatment?

 

[bigdnlaca]

Kareem was the Greatest Player I ever saw play.

When I think of greatest, I think of who would beat anyone in a game of basketball. No doubt it is Kareem.

If he spanked DrJ in a one on one game at 40+ years old, imagine what he could have done in his prime.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

When I think of greatest, I think of who would beat anyone in a game of basketball. No doubt it is Kareem.

If he spanked DrJ in a one on one game at 40+ years old, imagine what he could have done in his prime.

That's a bad way to gauge who is the best of all time, because Basketball is so much more than 1 on 1. Yes, it is the team sport where one player makes the biggest difference, but it is a team sport none the less.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Kareem was the Greatest Player I ever saw play.

we've had this discussion before....
my pops told me that Lew/Kareem, in his prime (70's) was the greatest center he's ever seen play the game.
over wilt, russell, dream,moses....etc....

and my pops knows the sport well...

For me it was dream...but I only started watching in the 80's.


But back on topic.... KB is making ticket sales go through the roof.... fans are rooting against their own for Kobe. That's respect. No he wasn't Micheal, but the man could ball....

 

[Biggems]

IMO, Jabbar is the greatest NBA player of all-time. MJ is number 2. Then there are a whole slew of guys who come after like Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and Kobe.

 

[JoeKing]

BYE