Ksk's DT's

[805BoysInBlue]

They need to walk away with at least 3 players that are over 300 pounds for the d line. There's way too much talent in the draft to be going into the season with Mazi as a starter.

 

[cnuball21]

I’m talking about bon a fide 1st rounders and early 2nd rounders. Guys that I’ve watched and are unanimously ranked higher than the guys you’ve referenced. I want the same thing you do I just want better players so I’m not sure what your argument here it.

You can say there are much better prospects all you want, but until you examine their skillset and deduce how it will fit into the NFL, just going by TV fooforaw will make your take unsound.

Are the guys you're listening to the same guys who claimed MO and Taco and Mazi were 1st rounders? What's your source?

Rotation types at DT are the exact reason why we keep losing in the playoffs.

 

[J-man]

I agree about the DT position and the absolute need to upgrade it immensely. There are lots of 3T's in this class that can play. But 1 T is a lot thinner so I want them to grab one very early.
Give me either Grant, T Williams, Collins or West for 1T in any of the first 3 rds.
And like I said there are a ton of 3 T's I like, S Stewart, Harmon, Lott, Peebles, Nolen, Sanders Robinson, Pegues, the guys you mentioned and some others too.
I think that volume of players at 3T stretches the class and we can still get a very good one to pair with Osa in the later rds.
But we can't do that at 1T, we need to go get our guy asap.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I've been studying the position. Here's the two I've found that need to be Cowboys:

Darius Alexander, Toledo
Joshua Farmer, FL ST

We have a chance to build a DLine for the next 10 years. It would suck to face one of the best DT drafts since 2012 and not build the type of DT combo that vaults us into super bowl contention.

These two would form a combo reminiscent of the Carter/Davis combo that put Philly in the super bowl. Jerry, you want a super bowl team? Then show us. Make the right moves, instead of more WRs and CBs and TEs.

Why do you torture yourself every off season with DT talk? You know it's not happening. Jerry has never had a commitment to the DT position. We have drafted 2 in round 1 since 1991. I think it's b/c Jerry was a G in college and doesn't like DTs. Just a theory.....

 

[kskboys]

I’m talking about bon a fide 1st rounders and early 2nd rounders. Guys that I’ve watched and are unanimously ranked higher than the guys you’ve referenced. I want the same thing you do I just want better players so I’m not sure what your argument here it.

Highly doubtful Jerry will go DT in the 1st. I was thinking more about 2nd and 3rd round. That's how we're off!!!!!

Graham will be gone. If we do actually go DT in the 1st, who are you thinking?

 

[tm1119]

There’s going to be a lot of fans that are REALLY disappointed…again.

-Osa was paid a fortune (In Jerry/Stephen’s eyes) and Thomas was hand picked as a rare early (yet still cheap) FA signing…hands washed, 3 tech position is taken care of
-They for sure aren’t giving up on Mazi
-Add in the DE’s- Micah, Fowler, Williams, Kneeland, and Turner and we are already up to 8 Dlineman that will take up a roster spot. That leaves room for 1 more guy on the DL for the active roster

Not saying this is right/good or what l want to happen, just have to accept reality

 

[cnuball21]

Highly doubtful Jerry will go DT in the 1st. I was thinking more about 2nd and 3rd round. That's how we're off!!!!!

Graham will be gone. If we do actually go DT in the 1st, who are you thinking?

Outside of Graham Harmon, Nolen and Grant are probably the next best 3.

Not sure they’d warrant the pick at 12 but good trade down options IMO.

Williams (OSU) and Collins (UT) are 2 of my favorite day 2 options. Don’t give you much rushing the passer but black holes against the run.

 

[cnuball21]

There’s going to be a lot of fans that are REALLY disappointed…again.

-Osa was paid a fortune (In Jerry/Stephen’s eyes) and Thomas was hand picked as a rare early (yet still cheap) FA signing…hands washed, 3 tech position is taken care of
-They for sure aren’t giving up on Mazi
-Add in the DE’s- Micah, Fowler, Williams, Kneeland, and Turner and we are already up to 8 Dlineman that will take up a roster spot. That leaves room for 1 more guy on the DL for the active roster

Not saying this is right/good or what l want to happen, just have to accept reality

Mazi is the only 1T on the roster with a secure spot.

 

[kskboys]

Why do you torture yourself every off season with DT talk? You know it's not happening. Jerry has never had a commitment to the DT position. We have drafted 2 in round 1 since 1991. I think it's b/c Jerry was a G in college and doesn't like DTs. Just a theory.....

Finding new ways to hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe Jerry was too drunk to see what the Eagles DTs did to KC. He certainly missed Cincy making a super bowl due to the play of Ogunjobi and Reader.

And now I'm hearing we may trade up for Travis Hunter. Ick. Build it to win 8-9 games, Jerry, that's what you always do!!!!

 

[kskboys]

Mazi is the only 1T on the roster with a secure spot.

And he shouldn't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Montanalo]

Outside of Graham Harmon, Nolen and Grant are probably the next best 3.

Not sure they’d warrant the pick at 12 but good trade down options IMO.

Williams (OSU) and Collins (UT) are 2 of my favorite day 2 options. Don’t give you much rushing the passer but black holes against the run.

I really like Collins... he doesn't seem to be getting much press, however.

 

[kskboys]

Outside of Graham Harmon, Nolen and Grant are probably the next best 3.

Not sure they’d warrant the pick at 12 but good trade down options IMO.

Williams (OSU) and Collins (UT) are 2 of my favorite day 2 options. Don’t give you much rushing the passer but black holes against the run.

Nolen reminds me way too much of Osa. Good pass rusher, weak vs the run.
Grant is a stud. Do you really think Jerry will take a nose in the 1st?
Harmon is a one year wonder, and those always scare me. Misses way too many tackles and lacks lateral agility. Looks like a bust waiting to happen to me.
I love Collins, but he's not ready. Reminds me of Guyton, has the tools. Are we patient enough to take him?
Williams is a bit scary. Has a pile of great traits, but is sort of a tweener. Play points toward leverage issues. Not sold.

IMO, Farmer and Alexander are better prospects than anyone listed aside from Graham and Grant. Maybe Collins, but he has some learning to do.

Evaluating DTs, BTW, is the toughest evaluation there is. There are so many who look like sure things coming out that bust. They key traits to look for in a DT: Motor, lateral agility, anchoring ability, burst, and drive strength. Way too many of these guys are being rated too highly strictly due to pass rush ability. If a DT cannot anchor(Osa), he'll be pushed around way too much which helps result in being 29th vs the run. Which we were.

 

[kskboys]

I really like Collins... he doesn't seem to be getting much press, however.

Raw. Think Guyton.

 

[cnuball21]

And he shouldn't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DTs usually take 2/3 years to hit their stride in the NFL…even 1st rounder.

I wouldn’t let Mazi keep me from drafting a 1T early but he showed progression in year 2 and hopeful he can take another step in year 3.

 

[kskboys]

DTs usually take 2/3 years to hit their stride in the NFL…even 1st rounder.

I wouldn’t let Mazi keep me from drafting a 1T early but he showed progression in year 2 and hopeful he can take another step in year 3.

Yup. But Jerry will.

If Mazi showed progress, it was going from a 0 to a 1. Scale of 1-10.

Depends on the DT. If you get a guy who can anchor, he will at the very least play well in the run game.

 

[cnuball21]

Nolen reminds me way too much of Osa. Good pass rusher, weak vs the run.
Grant is a stud. Do you really think Jerry will take a nose in the 1st?
Harmon is a one year wonder, and those always scare me. Misses way too many tackles and lacks lateral agility. Looks like a bust waiting to happen to me.
I love Collins, but he's not ready. Reminds me of Guyton, has the tools. Are we patient enough to take him?
Williams is a bit scary. Has a pile of great traits, but is sort of a tweener. Play points toward leverage issues. Not sold.

IMO, Farmer and Alexander are better prospects than anyone listed aside from Graham and Grant. Maybe Collins, but he has some learning to do.

Evaluating DTs, BTW, is the toughest evaluation there is. There are so many who look like sure things coming out that bust. They key traits to look for in a DT: Motor, lateral agility, anchoring ability, burst, and drive strength. Way too many of these guys are being rated too highly strictly due to pass rush ability. If a DT cannot anchor(Osa), he'll be pushed around way too much which helps result in being 29th vs the run. Which we were.

Nolan had a 90+ run grade D, was top 5 in run stop percentage and logged a ton of run stops.

Harmon is arguably the most balanced DT in the class not named Graham…80+ grade as both a pass rusher and a run defender and was top top 3 ish amongst all power 5 DTs in both pressures and win rate. One of the best pure stackers and shedders against the run in the class IMO.

Williams / Collins - the tape I’ve seen and pretty much every scoring report out there raves about their run stuffing ability. Like I said not good pass rushers but the traits are there.

 

[kskboys]

Nolan had a 90+ run grade D, was top 5 in run stop percentage and logged a ton of run stops.

Harmon is arguably the most balanced DT in the class not named Graham…80+ grade as both a pass rusher and a run defender and was top top 3 ish amongst all power 5 DTs in both pressures and win rate. One of the best pure stackers and shedders against the run in the class IMO.

Williams / Collins - the tape I’ve seen and pretty much every scoring report out there raves about their run stuffing ability. Like I said not good pass rushers but the traits are there.

Those grades are generally not all that accurate. Plus, stopping the run in college as opposed to the pros is a different ball of wax.

What the scouts are saying about Nolen: "Poor run defender that is moved and sealed easily. Leverage and discipline are poor which leads to losses in run D..."

Harmon: "Numerous missed tackles on tape. Gets taken off the field more often than you would like to see, may have motor issues. A little skinny for his frame and may have a harder time stopping the run at the pro level. Somewhat stiff w/ limited effectiveness in schemes that rely on stunts and twists. Lateral agility is going to knock down his testing."

Williams is a tweener. That means most likely rotational type.

Collins is raw. Didn't I already say that? Might be the best DT in the draft, but could also bust. High ceiling low floor type.

 

[tm1119]

Mazi is the only 1T on the roster with a secure spot.

Agreed, they will be looking for 1 more big body for the rotation…and it’s very possible that’s it for the DLine. Hopefully I’m wrong, but it won’t shock if they view the 8 they already have on the roster as “good enough”

 

[cnuball21]

Those grades are generally not all that accurate. Plus, stopping the run in college as opposed to the pros is a different ball of wax. What the scouts are saying about Nolen: "Poor run defender that is moved and sealed easily. Leverage and discipline are poor which leads to losses in run D..." Harmon: "Numerous missed tackles on tape. Gets taken off the field more often than you would like to see, may have motor issues. A little skinny for his frame and may have a harder time stopping the run at the pro level. Somewhat stiff w/ limited effectiveness in schemes that rely on stunts and twists. Lateral agility is going to knock down his testing." Williams is a tweener. That means most likely rotational type. Collins is raw. Didn't I already say that? Might be the best DT in the draft, but could also bust. High ceiling low floor type.

Those grades are generally not all that accurate. Plus, stopping the run in college as opposed to the pros is a different ball of wax.

What the scouts are saying about Nolen: "Poor run defender that is moved and sealed easily. Leverage and discipline are poor which leads to losses in run D..."

Harmon: "Numerous missed tackles on tape. Gets taken off the field more often than you would like to see, may have motor issues. A little skinny for his frame and may have a harder time stopping the run at the pro level. Somewhat stiff w/ limited effectiveness in schemes that rely on stunts and twists. Lateral agility is going to knock down his testing."

Williams is a tweener. That means most likely rotational type.

Collins is raw. Didn't I already say that? Might be the best DT in the draft, but could also bust. High ceiling low floor type.

”What the scouts are saying” or what you read on one individual scouting report?

It’s not just a grade there are other stats / metrics out there that disprove what you’re claiming plus watching them play tells quite a different story IMO.

 

[cnuball21]

Those grades are generally not all that accurate. Plus, stopping the run in college as opposed to the pros is a different ball of wax.

What the scouts are saying about Nolen: "Poor run defender that is moved and sealed easily. Leverage and discipline are poor which leads to losses in run D..."

Harmon: "Numerous missed tackles on tape. Gets taken off the field more often than you would like to see, may have motor issues. A little skinny for his frame and may have a harder time stopping the run at the pro level. Somewhat stiff w/ limited effectiveness in schemes that rely on stunts and twists. Lateral agility is going to knock down his testing."

Williams is a tweener. That means most likely rotational type.

Collins is raw. Didn't I already say that? Might be the best DT in the draft, but could also bust. High ceiling low floor type.

Also Williams is 6’3 326…in what universe is that a tweener?