Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

[Doomsday101]

CNN) -- The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize, the school said Wednesday.

The ruling has not yet been posted to the National Labor Relations Board website, but in a statement, Northwestern acknowledged the ruling and says it plans to appeal.

The players' petition was a way to get a seat at the bargaining table in college sports and could change the landscape of the NCAA model.

Northwestern University fought the petition by saying its players are students and not employees.

But the board's decision indicates that there was enough evidence presented that the athletes are employees of the university -- getting paid in the form of scholarships, working between 20 and 50 hours per week and generating millions of dollars for their institutions.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/us/northwestern-football-union/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[erod]

Incredibly dangerous for college athletics.

So if you have to pay the football team, what about the women's soccer team, the water polo team, the golf team, etc?

Much like Title IX forced many schools to eliminate men's teams (for example, most schools have a women's soccer team, but not a men's), this will just cause universities to downscale their athletic program as a whole.

You may even see schools like Duke drop football and baseball, or D2 and D3 programs drop athletics altogether.

 

[Doomsday101]

Incredibly dangerous for college athletics.

So if you have to pay the football team, what about the women's soccer team, the water polo team, the golf team, etc?

Much like Title IX forced many schools to eliminate men's teams (for example, most schools have a women's soccer team, but not a men's), this will just cause universities to downscale their athletic program as a whole.

You may even see schools like Duke drop football and baseball, or D2 and D3 programs drop athletics altogether.

I agree. the implications could destroy college sports.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Posted an article on this some time back. I don't believe this will be allowed to stand. However, if it does, this now means that all of these players can be fired. This is a can of worms that is not going to go well for the players. Also, take note of the Union that is backing the players here. It's not a players Union like you have in other major Pro Sports. It's Steel Workers Union. That means that this is really not about the players at all.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Incredibly dangerous for college athletics.

So if you have to pay the football team, what about the women's soccer team, the water polo team, the golf team, etc?

Much like Title IX forced many schools to eliminate men's teams (for example, most schools have a women's soccer team, but not a men's), this will just cause universities to downscale their athletic program as a whole.

You may even see schools like Duke drop football and baseball, or D2 and D3 programs drop athletics altogether.

What this would lead to, IMO, are the 6 Power Conferences being the only game in town. They will adopt this because they can afford to play this game but other conferences not named Big 10, Big 12, SEC, PAC12, ACC and Big East are probably going to go by the boards. What does that mean? It means a lot fewer jobs for a whole bunch of players.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Posted an article on this some time back. I don't believe this will be allowed to stand. However, if it does, this now means that all of these players can be fired. This is a can of worms that is not going to go well for the players. Also, take note of the Union that is backing the players here. It's not a players Union like you have in other major Pro Sports. It's Steel Workers Union. That means that this is really not about the players at all.

No it doesn't. The colleges are contractually obligated to honor their agreement. Those agreements don't go away because the NLRB agrees to recognize the students and will arbitrate.

The colleges all got together via the NCAA to agree not to pay their football and basketball players and both industries have since set up policies forcing workers into the college system. It's a convenient symbiosis.

Johnny Manziel was paid in goods in services about $45k for last year. That is wrong.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No it doesn't. The colleges are contractually obligated to honor their agreement. Those agreements don't go away because the NLRB agrees to recognize the students and will arbitrate.

The colleges all got together via the NCAA to agree not to pay their football and basketball players and both industries have since set up policies forcing workers into the college system. It's a convenient symbiosis.

Johnny Manziel was paid in goods in services about $45k for last year. That is wrong.

Yes, I'm afraid it does. That agreement is no longer valid if these players are employees.

Either way, the contracts do not say that the players have to play. They only say that the Colleges have to provide them with an education. After the current players are gone, there will be no more because it will no longer be affordable. In the end, it means few jobs IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

Estimated 4 Year Cost at Current Tuition

At current published tuition rates, the estimated total tuition and living expense cost of a 4 year bachelor's degree at Northwestern University is $235,800 for students graduating in normal time. Our methodology for estimating the 4 year cost is a multiple of the most recent reported annual cost and does not factor in tuition increases
http://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/illinois/northwestern-university/

without a scholarship most of these kids could not afford it. Simple fact is the vast majority will never see a professional playing field once they leave college, the reward is getting a partially paid or fully paid education that will last a life time that most would never get if mom and dad had to pay for it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Estimated 4 Year Cost at Current Tuition

At current published tuition rates, the estimated total tuition and living expense cost of a 4 year bachelor's degree at Northwestern University is $235,800 for students graduating in normal time. Our methodology for estimating the 4 year cost is a multiple of the most recent reported annual cost and does not factor in tuition increases
http://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/illinois/northwestern-university/

without a scholarship most of these kids could not afford it. Simple fact is the vast majority will never see a professional playing field once they leave college, the reward is getting a partially paid or fully paid education that will last a life time that most would never get if mom and dad had to pay for it.

If they were paid what they were worth for the service they are providing the college they most certainly could afford the $52k to attend Northwestern. This notion that the colleges do not make much more than what they pay out is laughable.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, I'm afraid it does. That agreement is no longer valid if these players are employees.

Either way, the contracts do not say that the players have to play. They only say that the Colleges have to provide them with an education. After the current players are gone, there will be no more because it will no longer be affordable. In the end, it means few jobs IMO.

Sorry but unless the player agreement includes a specific clause invalidating it if the players are given a specific legal status then no it does not. At the very least it would be arbitrated. What do you think the NLRB does? Firing them all at the first sniff of organization is not a new tactic ABQ.

 

[Doomsday101]

If they were paid what they were worth for the service they are providing the college they most certainly could afford the $52k to attend Northwestern. This notion that the colleges do not make much more than what they pay out is laughable.

No colleges do make money off that they make money off grants paid by business in fields of science and other area so do those students get paid as well? How much do basketball men and women get paid? how about the other programs in sports do they get paid as well? There are school who would drop the programs before they will contend with student unions and then those kids can go back home wishing like hell they could afford a top ranked education that again last a life time. Most of these player will never see a professional field unless they buy a ticket that is fact. how many kids get drafted each year in the NFL and how many kids are eligible?

 

[Doomsday101]

Sorry but unless the player agreement includes a specific clause invalidating it if the players are given a specific legal status then no it does not. At the very least it would be arbitrated. What do you think the NLRB does? Firing them all at the first sniff of organization is not a new tactic ABQ.

College can shut down the program, yes they make money they put the money back into all the athletic programs but they do not survive on college sports they are places of education not Ford Motor company

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry but unless the player agreement includes a specific clause invalidating it if the players are given a specific legal status then no it does not. At the very least it would be arbitrated. What do you think the NLRB does? Firing them all at the first sniff of organization is not a new tactic ABQ.

I don't think the NLRB is the question here. The question is, aside from the 6 major conferences, is it more profitable for Universities to fund Sports Programs that will cost more money then they generate or is it more profitable to simply cut those programs and make money on the business of College Educations and all that goes along with it?

This is a simple decision. Those players will be out of jobs and they can thank their Union for it. It may not be a new tactic but that doesn't really mean much. That's what's going to happen here IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think the NLRB is the question here. The question is, aside from the 6 major conferences, is it more profitable for Universities to fund Sports Programs that will cost more money then they generate or is it more profitable to simply cut those programs and make money on the business of College Educations and all that goes along with it?

This is a simple decision. Those players will be out of jobs and they can thank their Union for it. It may not be a new tactic but that doesn't really mean much. That's what's going to happen here IMO.

I agree. Players going on strike will not hurt the colleges that is not their main business. Yes it generate revenue and those revenue go to fund many athletic programs and allows them to offer scholorship which without those scholorship many of those players could not afford to attend. Being able to graduate and have a career in which you can better yourself and your oppertunities is irreplaceable because again the vast majority will have no future in professional sports.

 

[joseephuss]

I'm okay with a few football programs going away. We don't need to see Alabama(or any major program) beat up on East-North Chattanooga Tech State(or any minor program).
“When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.”

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm okay with a few football programs going away. We don't need to see Alabama(or any major program) beat up on East-North Chattanooga Tech State(or any minor program).
“When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.”

Yes but the ones who suffer are the kids who have a scholorship to east-noth chattanooga or some other small program. The object of the college is to educate, yes some of these schools could do away with program and the school will be just fine it is the kids who get hurt.

 

[Rogah]

If they were paid what they were worth for the service they are providing the college they most certainly could afford the $52k to attend Northwestern. This notion that the colleges do not make much more than what they pay out is laughable.

THe problem is you're looking only at one single sport and saying the money brought in is greater than the money that goes out.

Do you have any idea how many college sports and programs would have to be eliminated if football and (Men's) basketball became zero-sum games?

 

[erod]

Another interesting aspect. This for private schools only.

How big of an advantage is it if TCU can pay you, but Texas Tech can't?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm okay with a few football programs going away. We don't need to see Alabama(or any major program) beat up on East-North Chattanooga Tech State(or any minor program).
“When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.”

Purging Fire. Sucks for all of those Athletes who are not playing for the Alabamas of the world.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think the NLRB is the question here. The question is, aside from the 6 major conferences, is it more profitable for Universities to fund Sports Programs that will cost more money then they generate or is it more profitable to simply cut those programs and make money on the business of College Educations and all that goes along with it?

This is a simple decision. Those players will be out of jobs and they can thank their Union for it. It may not be a new tactic but that doesn't really mean much. That's what's going to happen here IMO.

The NCAA is an association and does not have the authority to shut down all schools sports programs. I am sure that there will be some schools that do so but most major conference schools have way too much invested. You can make claims about how the are 'places of learning' but that get drowned out when I drive by Royal Stadium and Kyle Field.

Even if the NCAA did have the ability to do what you claim, the NLRB has the authority to get injunctions and it would be stopped. What you are claiming they would do is not a new tactic. Quite the contrary, its exactly what firms would do in the 19th century that didn't work.