Landry not White to blame for 1981 Niner Loss

[KJJ]

Of course there is. Montana is a legend and Danny White is an afterthought. That has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about.

It has alot to do with what we're talking about because it's what transpired in that game that started Montana on the road to becoming a legend and Danny White on the road to becoming an afterthought.

 

[KJJ]

Maybe so, but at least Parcells was smart enough to hire coordinators for the offense and the defense. His big mistake was in not replacing Zimmer when he went to the 3-4. Zimmer ran the most vanilla 3-4 in the history of the league.

Parcells big mistake was always playing not to lose and leaving his average defense out there to try and hang on to slim leads. All the Cowboys did was attempt to sit on leads while he was here because he feared his QB's making mistakes. Parcells was still trying to win games with his defense. He wanted a bus driver for a QB and he wanted a ball control offense that revolved around the running game. He was attempting to win games the same way he won games 15-20 years earlier. He brought in aging broken down QB's like Vinny and Bledsoe who played for him YEARS earlier. Parcells couldn't relate to the players of today and his coaching methods weren't working anymore. This is why he left and never returned to the sidelines.

 

[KJJ]

Exactly. As a Rams fan at the time...I thought geesh...some of those Cowboy fans will absolutely eat one of their own...They get anything less than a Super Bowl championship and they show themselves as ugly humanity.

You weren't even a Cowboys fan at the time. I bet your sentiments back then regarding the game were alot different then they are now.

 

[DWhite Fan]

The key word you used was "almost". The 49ers winning TD was a pass. It was a result of Montana putting the ball where only Clark could catch it. Put White in that same situation and he would have thrown a pick got or got sacked and fumbled.

That is the thing about opinions. They are like buttholes, everyone has one....
You have no evidence to base this statement on. To me, your comments are starting to sound just like those that Skip Bayless used to bash White back in the 80s.

Brainless was as wrong then and you are now :starspin

 

[T-RO]

Dude there was one GREAT pass on that drive and it turned out to be one of the most historic plays in NFL history...

Not my argument but I have to agree....

It was historic as a CATCH....not as a throw. Clark bailed Montana out.

 

[T-RO]

That is the thing about opinions. They are like buttholes, everyone has one....
You have no evidence to base this statement on. To me, your comments are starting to sound just like those that Skip Bayless used to bash White back in the 80s.

Brainless was as wrong then and you are now :starspin

Yup. KJJ sounds venmous, bitter and hateful to me. A LOT like Skip Bayless.

 

[KJJ]

Not my argument but I have to agree....

It was historic as a CATCH....not as a throw. Clark bailed Montana out.

No question Clark made a great play on that pass but Montana had 4 players in his face including 6' 9" Ed Too Tall Jones and he was still able to put the ball where only Clark could make the play on it. Most any other QB would have choked and thrown a pick. Montana completed 6 passes on that drive including a clutch 3rd and 5 to Solomon. He completed 3 BIG passes on that drive so for those who think all the 49ers did on that final drive was run the ball better go check the replay.

 

[KJJ]

That is the thing about opinions. They are like buttholes, everyone has one....
You have no evidence to base this statement on. To me, your comments are starting to sound just like those that Skip Bayless used to bash White back in the 80s.

Brainless was as wrong then and you are now :starspin

I have plenty of evidence from not only that game but from other games White choked in. In the 3rd quarter he got one picked deep in Cowboys territory which gave the 49ers the ball at the Cowboys 13 yardline. They proceeded to score 3 plays later. At least when Montana made a mistake it pinned the Cowboys deep in their own end of the field. With 38 seconds to play in 49er territory and 2 timeouts left White fumbled away the game on a hit he could see coming. It was the exact same type of sack he took during the first series of the game but with the game on the line he fumbled. That type of mistake signified Whites career just like Montana's last minute TD pass to win the game signified his. You have one guy on this board claiming White was more of a hero in that game than Montana. :laugh2: I closely watched the replay of the entire game and Montana made many more key throws than White did and his mistakes didn't hurt the 49ers nearly as bad as Whites mistakes hurt the Cowboys. When you watch the game the Cowboys got more breaks than the 49ers including a big PI call on Ronnie Lott. The difference in that game was Montana never made the big mistake when his team was behind and needed to score and White did make the big mistake. Danny White made alot of big mistakes in games during his career but some of you either don't remember or are in denial.

 

[KJJ]

Yup. KJJ sounds venmous, bitter and hateful to me. A LOT like Skip Bayless.

I'm just giving you the facts. Some fans here just can't seem to deal with reality. The 81 title game still sticks in the craw of alot of Cowboys fans including me. No one is saying White played a bad game and didn't make some good throws. He did make some good throws but Montana made many more key throws and his mistakes weren't near as costly as Whites mistakes. The game came down to both QB's having to make plays to win the game and Montana got it done and White didn't. This has been a fact for 28 years! There's one fan here telling me Montana hardly completed a pass on the 49ers final drive but the fact is Montana completed 6 passes for almost 50 yards including the game winner. Three of his six completions on that drive were key throws.

He threaded the needle on two of them and one was on a crucial 3rd and 5. Montana didn't have to throw alot on that drive because the 49ers ran the ball so well but when he had to throw he didn't turn it over and completed some key passes to keep the drive alive. Montana was a tremendous clutch player who had ice water running through his veins. Most big games come down to the QB having to make some key throws in critical situations and Montana was a master in those situations. He always found a way to avoid making the big mistake and put a pass in a perfect position where only his receiver could make a play on it.

 

[burmafrd]

your so called FACTS are your OPINIONS. Only you are arrogant enought to think so. Your bitter venom is a pathetic thing to read. You are the kind of fan who is never happy unless you are hating on a player or a coach. So why don't you become a FAN of another team and leave us in peace?

 

[ilovejerry]

Right

How the hell does Dallas' defense allow the 49ers to drive the length of the field in the final 4 minutes running the football? Anyone ever wonder how the slowest 49er on the field, Dwight Clark, got so open in the end zone? I guess that was all Danny's fault aswell? Landry went prevent in the closing minutes, as always, and it cost him dearly. Tom did the same thing on GB's final drive in the '67 "Ice Bowl" and it cost Dallas a title then aswell.

Danny out played Montana that day and should have never been in that final situation in the first place.

So, let me ask this question. Was Don Meredith "just another QB who couldn't get it done in crunch time"?

As someone said before, it has been almost 30 years and that game still haunts me.

The Philly loss the year before was the result of a complete team let-down from the emotional win in Atlanta the week before. Of course for all those White bashers out there, it was all Danny's fault.

Just like the fact that, even though he was out of the game before halftime, Danny was the reason the Cowboys lost to the Commanders the next year (Hogeboom throwing two killer INTs had nothing to do with the result).

I love it when individuals that never saw him play make assinine comments like the one highlighted above

I liked D.White as well. The defense was never the same without Hollywood Henderson. I will go to my grave thinking that...as far aTony D goes the guy weighed 180 ponds soaking wet runnung out of bounds prolonged his career.

 

[ilovejerry]

Landry's prevent defense certainly played a big part in that loss but the 49ers didn't run the ball into the endzone to win the game. The game is know as the "The Catch". Montana's legend began that day and he proved the next 13 years he could pick apart any defense no matter how you tried to defend him. The Cowboys inability to stop the 49ers running game played a big part in that drive because the Cowboys were in a prevent thinking pass. The 49ers crossed us up by running the ball. Montana was an absolute master in crunch situations. Six years later he carved up the Bengals on a long drive in the closing seconds to win a SB. No QB played as well as Montana did in big games. The guy never made mistakes when a game was in the balance. In my opinion he was hands down the greatest QB that ever lived.




Ever wonder how Witten who's as slow as molasses gets so open? : Clark was probably faster than Witten and like Witten he could find soft spots in the defense.



How do you figure White outplayed Montana that day? White passed 173 yards compared to 286 yards for Montana. Montana tossed 3 TD passes including the game winner in the final 50 seconds. Montana did have 4 turnovers but none of them came during a critical situation with the game on the line. White had 2 turnovers and another fumble the Cowboys fortunately got back. His last fumble came at the worst possible time with the game on the line and it's been haunting most Cowboys fans for 29 years. That wasn't the first time White turned the ball at the end of a tight game. Only a blind homer would say White outplayed Montana that day. When the game came down to do or die Montana got it done and Danny White didn't...FACT! Each team had good breaks and bad breaks throughout the game and like most championship games do it came down to a QB having to make plays and Montana made them and Danny White didn't. There's a reason Montana is in the Hall Of Fame and White isn't even a consideration. Heck he's not even a consideration for his own teams Ring Of Honor.




How many times did Meredith lead the Cowboys to a championship? Meredith turned the ball over his share of times in big games. There's a reason Bart Starr is in the Hall Of Fame and Meredith isn't even a consideration. Meredith is in the Cowboys ROH but the standards for the Ring aren't what they are now. The fact that Don Perkins is in the ROH tells you the criteria for being inducted to the ROH was different in the early days. Perkins stats were as average as they get and so were Merediths. Meredith was inducted into the ROH because he was apart of the teams early success but mainly because of his off the field success on Monday Night Football. He became an icon on that show and some NFL fans weren't even aware of his football career. My gosh one of the GREATEST Cowboys ever Drew Pearson isn't even in the ROH and he made much more of an impact as a player than Meredith or Perkins did. Pearson played a part in two of the most historic plays in NFL history. He caught the Hail Mary and he made the key block on Tony Dorsetts 99 yard TD run. He damn near changed the course of history in the 81 title game had he been wearing a tear away jersey. Pearson played a big part in the success of Roger Staubach. Pearson was apart of some memorable plays and even helped make Clint Longely a household name amongst Cowboys fans. Who in your opinion was the better Cowboys player Meredith or Drew Pearson?




White stunk it up against Philly in the 1980 title game. He only completed 38% of his passes and his QB rating was a dismal 38.0. The Cowboys defense couldn't stop the run that day and White was completely ineffective.




I've been a diehard Cowboys fan since 1971 when they won their first SB. I saw every snap Danny White took. He was a good QB who folded under pressure. He had his moments with a great comeback against Atlanta in the 1980 playoffs and another great moment against Washington on a Monday Night game in 83 with another great comeback. He never came though in the title games and his career will be mostly remembered for that fumble in the final seconds of the 81 title game.

The defense couldnt get off the field Mongomery and harris both run for 100+ yards
white was under the gun

 

[Plankton]

I know I am late to the party, but let me add a few tidbits on your post GoliadMike.

When key injuries intermingle with bad drafts, then the process of erosion greatly accelerates.

Maybe we Cowboy fans need to applaud Landry, Schramm and Gil Brandt for the job they did acquiring talent through 1977. What a nice run that was from 1965 to 1985. Dallas remained a threat to go all the way through the mid 80s. It wasn't until the Bears blasted the Cowboys 44-0 when I realized that they just are not the same anymore. I was also only 21 years old at that time.

But let's think about this:

1978 - The only player of note from that draft was Dennis Thurman in the 11th round! Larry Bethea proved to be a liability.

1979 - Ed Jones goes on a hiatus, and Charlie Waters blows out his knee in pre-season. The 1979 draft was a little better with Doug Cosbie in the 3rd round and Ron Springs in the 5th round. Unfortunately, 1st round pick Robert Shaw (who put center John Fitzgerald on the bench his rookie year) had his career shortened with chronic knee injuries. Bruce Thornton in the 8th round did what he could to replace Too Tall Jones.

1980 - Dallas traded their 1st and 2nd round picks for John Dutton, not leaving a whole lot for the rest of the draft. The best player in the 1980 draft was probably Kurt Peterson (4th round). James Jones (3rd round), and Timmy Newsome (6th round) were average at best. Bill Roe and Gary Hogeboom were busts.

1981 - Howard Richards, Doug Donley and Ron Fellows were nothing special. The Cowboys have not drafted a first round offensive lineman since.

1982 - One of the worst drafts in Cowboys history. What in the world was Landry and Brandt thinking taking a defensive back from Western Kentucky in the first round?!?!?! Rod Hill??? A year earlier, the Cowboys got lucky finding Everson Walls and Michael Downs as undrafted free agents. Weren't there other areas on the team to address??

And what about 2nd round pick Jeff Rohrer? It's nice that he has the brains of an Ivy Leaguer, but it doesn't fo you any good if it doesn't produce plays! Rohrer was in Dallas' starting lineup for most of the 80s! Why?

1983 - Jim Jeffcoat had a great career in Dallas, but who would rather have Dan Marino? There was nothing else in the draft worth mentioning.

1984 - Dallas lost Billy Cannon Jr with a neck injury.

There is not a decent draft in for the Cowboys until 1988 - when Irvin and Ken Norton arrives. Then came a slew of GREAT drafts!

There's a very good reason for it: after the 1975 draft, the draft moved from the end of January to April, then to May for a couple of years, and then back to April. This extra time for preparation eliminated the Cowboys' huge advantage of their network of coaches passing along info. Now, teams had more time to compile their own information, and the Cowboys did not adapt. It showed a fundamental flaw in their ability to properly evaluate players.

This block of time is the reason why Gil Brandt will never see the Hall of Fame. It is a bad enough stretch to make you wonder whether he could truly evaluate players, or whether he was only as good as the info provided to him by coaches.

 

[CowboysFanSince88]

my dad always called montana the-"blue eyed devil"

lol

 

[JJB500]

I liked D.White as well. The defense was never the same without Hollywood Henderson. I will go to my grave thinkingthat...as far aTony D goes the guy weighed 180 ponds soaking wet runnung out of bounds prolonged his career.

That makes two of us on that.......

 

[DWhite Fan]

I'm just giving you the facts. Some fans here just can't seem to deal with reality. The 81 title game still sticks in the craw of alot of Cowboys fans including me. No one is saying White played a bad game and didn't make some good throws. He did make some good throws but Montana made many more key throws and his mistakes weren't near as costly as Whites mistakes. The game came down to both QB's having to make plays to win the game and Montana got it done and White didn't. This has been a fact for 28 years! There's one fan here telling me Montana hardly completed a pass on the 49ers final drive but the fact is Montana completed 6 passes for almost 50 yards including the game winner. Three of his six completions on that drive were key throws.

He threaded the needle on two of them and one was on a crucial 3rd and 5. Montana didn't have to throw alot on that drive because the 49ers ran the ball so well but when he had to throw he didn't turn it over and completed some key passes to keep the drive alive. Montana was a tremendous clutch player who had ice water running through his veins. Most big games come down to the QB having to make some key throws in critical situations and Montana was a master in those situations. He always found a way to avoid making the big mistake and put a pass in a perfect position where only his receiver could make a play on it.

You ain't giving me squat.

You are telling me your opinion of Danny is fact. Montana played like crap in that game. I guess Joe's INTs were just like punts for the 49ers, right? How do Romo's "punts" work out for him? Danny gave Dallas a chance to win by putting the Cowboys ahead with 4 minutes to go. The 49ers were pinned deeep in their own end. There is absolutely no excuse for the Dallas defense to let that team drive the length of the field by running the football. Don't come up with the fact Joe "threw" the football to win, the 49ers running the ball is what got them into position to score.

You want a fact? As painful as it is for me to admit this, Tom Landry's conservatism is what cost Dallas that game. He NEVER should have went into a prevent defense for that last drive.

In 1967, Pete Gent was in a hosptial with a broke back and had to watch the Ice Bowl game on TV. Gent said that when he saw that Landry had Dallas playing prevent against the Packers during GB final drive it made him cry. He said he knew Landry would do it and that the decision was a fatal mistake, just as it was in January of 1982. Landry got outcoached in the final quarter of the game.

Good QBs put their team in a position to win. That is what Dany did that day, whether you like it or not. It is what I like about Romo. He gives Dallas a chance to win. Of course using your logic, Romo is "just another guy." Danny was not perfect by no means, but that loss in SF was not the result of one White fumble.
:starspin

 

[bbgun]

Montana had four turnovers. Since I'm too lazy to DL the entire game, are we sure that Dallas didn't score after any of them?

 

[KJJ]

You ain't giving me squat.

You are telling me your opinion of Danny is fact. Montana played like crap in that game.

Anyone who thinks Montana played like crap in that game is in serious denial. The fact is Montana got it done in the end and White didn't care to deny that? Had Montana played like "crap" the Cowboys would have easily won. Go back and watch some of the key throws he made then come back and tell me he played like crap. Maybe that game wasn't up to the spectacular standards Montana set later on but that was still a very good performance by a young QB going up against a veteran Cowboys defense that was loaded with players who were all wearing SB rings. That was probably the most talented defense Montana ever faced in his entire career. We're talking Randy White, Too Tall Jones, Harvey Martin and several others who were still very good players at that time. The fact the Cowboys got to the NFC title game the following year tells you that team wasn't over the hill yet. The only thing those Cowboy teams lacked was Roger Staubach.

I guess Joe's INTs were just like punts for the 49ers, right? How do Romo's "punts" work out for him?

The Cowboys had to make a good play on both Montana's deep passes to make those picks. His passes looked nothing like the 2 gifts Romo tossed up to Ed Reed last season against Baltimore. Montana's picks didn't cost the 49ers a single point. White's 3rd quarter INT gave the 49ers the ball at the Cowboys 13 yardline and it ended up costing us 7 points. Whites fumble at the end of the game cost the Cowboys an opportunity at 3 points that would have won the game and sent them to the SB. Like I said there's a reason Montana went on to become a legend and a 4 time SB winner and White went on to become just another QB who couldn't get it done when it mattered most.

Danny gave Dallas a chance to win by putting the Cowboys ahead with 4 minutes to go.

And the QB who you said played like crap drove his team 89 yards for the winning TD with just over 4 1/2 minutes to play. The Cowboys would have had alot better chance had Danny not thrown that 3rd quarter INT that cost us 7 points and fumbled the game away with only 38 seconds left to play.

The 49ers were pinned deeep in their own end. There is absolutely no excuse for the Dallas defense to let that team drive the length of the field by running the football. Don't come up with the fact Joe "threw" the football to win, the 49ers running the ball is what got them into position to score.

You want a fact? As painful as it is for me to admit this, Tom Landry's conservatism is what cost Dallas that game. He NEVER should have went into a prevent defense for that last drive.

We have no argument there and I mentioned this earlier the thread. Landry's prevent defense played a big part in the Cowboys losing that game but had White not tossed that 3rd quarter pick that cost us 7 points the game would have never come down to the 49ers last drive. It would have taken two drives and a couple of "The Catches" to beat us. The Cowboys had a number of breaks in that game. They got 6 turnovers and the 49ers mismanaged the clock in the closing seconds of the first half while deep in Cowboys territory and it cost them 3 points. They ran out of time and couldn't set up for the kick.

Good QBs put their team in a position to win. That is what Dany did that day, whether you like it or not. It is what I like about Romo. He gives Dallas a chance to win. Of course using your logic, Romo is "just another guy." Danny was not perfect by no means, but that loss in SF was not the result of one White fumble.
:starspin

True good QB's do put their team in position to win but great QB's get it done in big games. There's alot of good QB's who've put their teams in position to win but they didn't get it done in the end. Danny White was a good QB who couldn't get it done in big games and Montana was a great QB who could. This is why Montana's career and team went in one direction and Whites career and team went in another. These are all FACTS unless you can rewrite history.

 

[DallasEast]

DIE THREAD! DIE!