Leadership, Heart, and Chemistry...

[jday]

Geeze dude, Where did I say the "standard"?

Now it's been a few years but I do not remember anywhere near the amount of crap coming out of the locker room then as compared to now.

Leadership and heart doesn't meant you sit around and sing kumbaya and have a team hug to start every practice. Guy's can fight every day in the room. That can actually be a sign of the heart and fire needed! Haven't you ever worked very well with someone that you didn't like much at all? I have. I usualy don't end up like them any better but I usually gain a respect for them.

The leadership and chemistry comes when you step on the practice or game field and leave all that crap in the room.

The fact that that team was able to keep itself together for two years after the Switzer circus came to town is testament to the leadership, heart and chemistry on that team.

Comparing Irvin to Owens from an attitude perspective is certainly not soemthing I would do. Aikman and Romo, 180 degrees apart as far as attitude goes. Those guys clearly wanted it more then this team does.

At least to me.

"Want" is a horse of a different color. I agree that "want" in the end is probably the biggest intangible that has been brought up thus far. Are you saying "want" is the product of leadership, heart, and chemistry? Maybe there is a correlation, but I think "want" can be born from the circumstances of the last three years, especially this last one. In fact, these last three seasons very well may breed the leaders, heart, and chemistry everyone seems to be harping on. You know the cliche, that which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

I realize the comparison is difficult to make between Irvin and Owens. But I believe were it not for Owens past making him a target for negative scrutiny, he would be in the faces of various players like Irvin did. I realize that is speculation, but, at least, I'm not presenting my belief as a fact.

Your comment about working with people you don't like is kind of been my point. A team can have success without chemistry.

 

[jday]

Because you're arguing with me. :laugh2:

:bang2: j/k

Keep it going, if you can...

 

[Vtwin]

"Want" is a horse of a different color. I agree that "want" in the end is probably the biggest intangible that has been brought up thus far. Are you saying "want" is the product of leadership, heart, and chemistry? Maybe there is a correlation, but I think "want" can be born from the circumstances of the last three years, especially this last one. In fact, these last three seasons very well may breed the leaders, heart, and chemistry everyone seems to be harping on. You know the cliche, that which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

I realize the comparison is difficult to make between Irvin and Owens. But I believe were it not for Owens past making him a target for negative scrutiny, he would be in the faces of various players like Irvin did. I realize that is speculation, but, at least, I'm not presenting my belief as a fact.

Your comment about working with people you don't like is kind of been my point. A team can have success without chemistry.

I think the want factor is huge when it comes to leadership and heart. Of course want alone won't get it done but the folks that really want it and do what it takes to get it earn a respect. Add a little natural leadership ability and you have the making of something special.

THERE IS NO WAY any team will win any championship without really wanting it. If you don't care enough to really want it then you aren't going to work hard enough to get it. Put a few of these types in a room and they have the abililty to undermine the efforts of the wanters IF the wanters are not strong and smart enough to get everyone on the same page.

I hear what you are saying about TO and you have a point BUT TO made his own bed and if he truly wanted to put a positive spin on things he wouldn't have been talking to Deon and saying some of the things he said. If he truly WANTED it and had any sort of a knack as a leader he would have thought that out and made the decision to set an example and keep his mouth shut for the sake of the team goals. It is just that sort of thing that happened too much this season and shows a void. By the nature of his past, like it or not TO is a very high profile player on this team. You could say he is a large part of the face of this team. He missed a great opportunity to take a step away form his past (which I thought he had been doing a good job of) but instead he gave the haters and the media some gas to throw on the fire.

Then you have THE face of the team telling us how it doesn't really matter that much, it's just football. Now matter how true that may be you just can't, as QB of the team, say that stuff. You just can't do it. I can live with Tony not being an in your face type of leader. I can't live with him making comments like that and, yes, going to Cabo before a playoff game. Heck, he probably palyed even better because of the rest but when you are the QB of a pro football team you just don't do that.

I'm not a hater. Romo is still wet behind the ears. I really expected a bit of a drop-off from him last season after the big season the year before. He has disappointed me with his post season attitude from what I've seen but I have hope that in his third full season he will get it much better and we will really find out what we have.

Our only real difference is in the amount of importance we each place on having a solid core of team leader type guys who make it known that mediocrity, both in practice and on game day will not be accepted and who set the example.

I think it's pretty much essential unless the team never faces any adversity and you think it is just another piece which can be relatively easily overcome.

To be fair, my working with people you don't like example was specific to your comments about the 90's team. They were able to deal with that only because the team leaders didn't let it ruin the thing. If Wade were coaching that team and Romo palying QB and TO in place of Irvin things ight not have gone so well.

But who knows really...

 

[DallasEast]

I think the want factor is huge when it comes to leadership and heart. Of course want alone won't get it done but the folks that really want it and do what it takes to get it earn a respect. Add a little natural leadership ability and you have the making of something special.

THERE IS NO WAY any team will win any championship without really wanting it. If you don't care enough to really want it then you aren't going to work hard enough to get it. Put a few of these types in a room and they have the abililty to undermine the efforts of the wanters IF the wanters are not strong and smart enough to get everyone on the same page.

I hear what you are saying about TO and you have a point BUT TO made his own bed and if he truly wanted to put a positive spin on things he wouldn't have been talking to Deon and saying some of the things he said. If he truly WANTED it and had any sort of a knack as a leader he would have thought that out and made the decision to set an example and keep his mouth shut for the sake of the team goals. It is just that sort of thing that happened too much this season and shows a void. By the nature of his past, like it or not TO is a very high profile player on this team. You could say he is a large part of the face of this team. He missed a great opportunity to take a step away form his past (which I thought he had been doing a good job of) but instead he gave the haters and the media some gas to throw on the fire.

Then you have THE face of the team telling us how it doesn't really matter that much, it's just football. Now matter how true that may be you just can't, as QB of the team, say that stuff. You just can't do it. I can live with Tony not being an in your face type of leader. I can't live with him making comments like that and, yes, going to Cabo before a playoff game. Heck, he probably palyed even better because of the rest but when you are the QB of a pro football team you just don't do that.

I'm not a hater. Romo is still wet behind the ears. I really expected a bit of a drop-off from him last season after the big season the year before. He has disappointed me with his post season attitude from what I've seen but I have hope that in his third full season he will get it much better and we will really find out what we have.

Our only real difference is in the amount of importance we each place on having a solid core of team leader type guys who make it known that mediocrity, both in practice and on game day will not be accepted and who set the example.

I think it's pretty much essential unless the team never faces any adversity and you think it is just another piece which can be relatively easily overcome.

To be fair, my working with people you don't like example was specific to your comments about the 90's team. They were able to deal with that only because the team leaders didn't let it ruin the thing. If Wade were coaching that team and Romo palying QB and TO in place of Irvin things ight not have gone so well.

But who knows really...

"Thought?"

Owens knew exactly what he was doing. He is many things, but he is definitely not oblivious about any of his actions, especially not after being a part of the NFL for over 13 years.

 

[Doomsay]

Believe me; I see what you are saying. Initially, I was disappointed that Wade was fired at the end of the season. On the other hand, outside of Jimmy Johnson and the former Steelers coach, whose name escapes me currently, there isn't anybody I would want to replace him with.

But to say that Wade is completely incapable of turning this thing around, as though he is predisposed to not winning a Play Off or Super Bowl game is, for the lack of a better description, very narrowminded. Granted, his track record suggest certain struggles in that area, but the nature of his becoming the Head Coach in previous situations isn't exactly conducive to success.

Wade is incapable of turning this thing around. This talented team has been roughly 500 since it went off auto pilot last December. The personal coaching challenges that he outlined in his pathetic little mia culpa this past December were in full evidence back at the beginning of this 12 month slide, yet he just decided to address them after squandering yet another playoff-bound season. Unlike in previous seasons, this team was for once, largely intact in 2008, yet the mistakes, turnovers and penalties actually increased from an already troubling level. I've seen no tangible change in his demeanor or demonstrated leadership, the year-end walk out on his players (a fact) only solidifies that reality.

Wade's teams get worse over time, not better, because he loses control of them. It's obvious that he lacks the toughness and discipline to lead a contemporary NFL team. He avoids conflict on a grand scale, I've never seen a more conciliatory man in his position. Certainly player's coaches like Dungy can be be effective, but they have to garner a degree of respect that Wade lacks.

BTW, there have been 10 coaches available since Wade flubbed yet another playoff appearance last year that would have been upgrades. No other team will hire this guy as a HC, that kind of blows-up any argument you could ever have for keeping him on a team that is talented enough for a deep playoff run. His HC market value is 0 at any salary, think about it.

 

[jday]

I think the want factor is huge when it comes to leadership and heart. Of course want alone won't get it done but the folks that really want it and do what it takes to get it earn a respect. Add a little natural leadership ability and you have the making of something special.

THERE IS NO WAY any team will win any championship without really wanting it. If you don't care enough to really want it then you aren't going to work hard enough to get it. Put a few of these types in a room and they have the abililty to undermine the efforts of the wanters IF the wanters are not strong and smart enough to get everyone on the same page.

I hear what you are saying about TO and you have a point BUT TO made his own bed and if he truly wanted to put a positive spin on things he wouldn't have been talking to Deon and saying some of the things he said. If he truly WANTED it and had any sort of a knack as a leader he would have thought that out and made the decision to set an example and keep his mouth shut for the sake of the team goals. It is just that sort of thing that happened too much this season and shows a void. By the nature of his past, like it or not TO is a very high profile player on this team. You could say he is a large part of the face of this team. He missed a great opportunity to take a step away form his past (which I thought he had been doing a good job of) but instead he gave the haters and the media some gas to throw on the fire.

Then you have THE face of the team telling us how it doesn't really matter that much, it's just football. Now matter how true that may be you just can't, as QB of the team, say that stuff. You just can't do it. I can live with Tony not being an in your face type of leader. I can't live with him making comments like that and, yes, going to Cabo before a playoff game. Heck, he probably palyed even better because of the rest but when you are the QB of a pro football team you just don't do that.

I'm not a hater. Romo is still wet behind the ears. I really expected a bit of a drop-off from him last season after the big season the year before. He has disappointed me with his post season attitude from what I've seen but I have hope that in his third full season he will get it much better and we will really find out what we have.

Our only real difference is in the amount of importance we each place on having a solid core of team leader type guys who make it known that mediocrity, both in practice and on game day will not be accepted and who set the example.

I think it's pretty much essential unless the team never faces any adversity and you think it is just another piece which can be relatively easily overcome.

To be fair, my working with people you don't like example was specific to your comments about the 90's team. They were able to deal with that only because the team leaders didn't let it ruin the thing. If Wade were coaching that team and Romo palying QB and TO in place of Irvin things ight not have gone so well.

But who knows really...

I think for the most part, we agree on most points. I never said I was perfectly okay with what T.O. has said and done. Part if is my trying to accept what I cannot change, but, on the other hand, I don't think T.O. said anything that was a lie. Should he have kept it to himself? Absolutely! But I think I would have a much bigger problem with his mouth if his only motive was to protect his image, which there is not alot he can do to help, at this point.

I wasn't crazy about what Romo said to end the season or the fact that he went to Cabo prior to that infamous loss to the Giants. But on that same token, I don't think his approach to weather the pain of loss or his weekend excursion explain why we lossed either.

Like I said in another thread I started that I have had to defend, if we could have more guys like Witten, Barber, Choice, and Felix, I would love it! Great work ethic, high character, leaders by example and vocally, and yet soft spoken and humble. That's my ideal player. But, unfortunatley, in this day and age, it takes all kinds. Diversity is key. On defense you want those angry at the world players. At receiver, you want hunry hippos for the ball. At OL, you want guys ready to squab at the drop of a hat. At QB, the formula is difficult to assess considering the many different types that have won the big game. Does anyone think Eli Manning is a vocal in-your-face leader? Brad Johnson? Throughout the history of the game different types of QB's have won the big game; the formula there is not exact.

 

[jday]

Wade is incapable of turning this thing around. This talented team has been roughly 500 since it went off auto pilot last December. The personal coaching challenges that he outlined in his pathetic little mia culpa this past December were in full evidence back at the beginning of this 12 month slide, yet he just decided to address them after squandering yet another playoff-bound season. Unlike in previous seasons, this team was for once, largely intact in 2008, yet the mistakes, turnovers and penalties actually increased from an already troubling level. I've seen no tangible change in his demeanor or demonstrated leadership, the year-end walk out on his players (a fact) only solidifies that reality.

Wade's teams get worse over time, not better, because he loses control of them. It's obvious that he lacks the toughness and discipline to lead a contemporary NFL team. He avoids conflict on a grand scale, I've never seen a more conciliatory man in his position. Certainly player's coaches like Dungy can be be effective, but they have to garner a degree of respect that Wade lacks.

BTW, there have been 10 coaches available since Wade flubbed yet another playoff appearance last year that would have been upgrades. No other team will hire this guy as a HC, that kind of blows-up any argument you could ever have for keeping him on a team that is talented enough for a deep playoff run. His HC market value is 0 at any salary, think about it.

Allow me to preface with the following with the admission that I am not a Wade fan, either. But first I would like to know what 10 coaches would have been an upgrade over Wade and second I refuse to believe that Wade is incapable of turning this thing around. If we as human beings were incapable of change in any facet of our life, we would cease to exist. It is our adaptability which has promoted procreation throughout the history of time. There is no way you can stay in a relationship long if you are incapable of change. Is it likely that he'll change? Probably not! But I do know his job depends on it. Jerry said he would grant him 3 years and this is his 3rd year. If Wade doesn't do something with the talent they have in 09, you can at least be assured 2010 will be under a new head coach. And I'd imagine, Jerry will try and go back to the Tuna/Jimmy mold again.