Leadership is an excuse

[Alexander]

These players like 30 year old men who have been playing football all their lives. Do they really need to have someone else to motivate them?

Yes, they do. Even our great teams had to have great leaders like Irvin. There has to be a lightning rod; a player who not only excels but inspires others to his level. Or in the absence of that, the coach has to hit the right buttons.

I have yet to see a team without direction, either from a coach or players, accomplish much of anything. They are no different than anyone else in terms of the way they go about their jobs. Some individuals are simply around to cash a check and need the kick in the rear, whether it come from a coach chewing them out or another player holding them accountable.

We have not had both sides of the equation on this football team in quite some time. Weak coach, weak and talentless players with Campo. Strong coach, still the same weak player leadership under Parcells. And now we have Phillips' velvet touch making the same players who overachieved last season right back to where they were under Parcells.

We were once rumored to be interested in a Ray Lewis type. I had high hopes for Zach Thomas, but he has shown he is too respectful of other "leaders" here. Tony Romo still needs to assert his leadership as well.

It does matter.

 

[Cowboys2008]

We're fine. And once we get all of our extremities back, we'll start walking like a human-being once again. Maybe even throwing in a dance move here or there.

If someone has a stroke and loses the use of their left side, stuff's not really working for them, is it? We don't look like a team because we've had a "stroke" and lost use of our left side for a time here. Of course we're not going to look anything like we used to look. It's going to take time and hard work. But that doesn't mean for one second that we can't get back to where we were. The heart and mind is still there. All that knowledge is still there. Everything we've already done, can be done again. Tony Romo is our hope. Felix Jones is our left arm. Terrance Newman is our left leg.

So what if humpty-dumpty fell of the wall, WE CAN PUT HIM BACK TOGETHER AGAIN! Stop you fair-weather fans and see the sun on the horizon!

 

[Alexander]

This team isn't very good right now for numerous reasons. It's not just limited to injuries, leadership, execution etc.

This group, to me, doesn't have a TEAM feel to it. I also think, we as fans of this team tend to overestimate our players. We think they are better than they truly are. We will be a lot better, obviously, once we're healthy, but it remains to be seen how good..

Having said that, it would be very nice to have someone like a Roger Staubach on offense or a Darren Woodsen on defense providing a leadership atmosphere to the team. These players are human. Almost all of the truly great teams had great leaders. Great coaches.

I understand not everyone values leadership as a necessary quality for an NFL team because players "at that age" need not be motivated via leadership etc.

Don't lump me in that group. I believe leadership is very important and I think Jimmy Johnson was an excellent example of a great leader who got the most out of his players, a lot of the time emphasizing winning individual battles etc.

Don't get me wrong, leadership is not the be all end all, but to dismiss it altogether is unseemly.

Part of leadership is getting everyone to work as a TEAM.

 

[zeroburrito]

Moose disagrees with you. And since he was there, witnessed it first hand and was affected by it, i tend to find him more credible than anyone else who watches games from the comfort of thier living room........ or a bar.

if what he said is really what he thinks, then his team was full of people with issue that didn't understand that they need to play hard to win for the team, and that a loss is worse than a win. i find that hard to believe. i also find it hard to believe that he would put his team down like that. what a huge diss. "yea, we needed a leader because we really didn't care for the game. the leadership really helped us understand that when you win a game, you're closer to the playoffs". it's all a load of bull.

 

[Alexander]

We're fine. And once we get all of our extremities back, we'll start walking like a human-being once again. Maybe even throwing in a dance move here or there.

So we were throwing out insane dance moves before all of these injuries? Hardly.

We were coasting by on the enormous talent gap we had but you could not say we were functioning in synergy.

That is what great teams eventually do. All phases of the team come together and click.

 

[zeroburrito]

Yes, they do. Even our great teams had to have great leaders like Irvin. There has to be a lightning rod; a player who not only excels but inspires others to his level. Or in the absence of that, the coach has to hit the right buttons.

I have yet to see a team without direction, either from a coach or players, accomplish much of anything. They are no different than anyone else in terms of the way they go about their jobs. Some individuals are simply around to cash a check and need the kick in the rear, whether it come from a coach chewing them out or another player holding them accountable.

We have not had both sides of the equation on this football team in quite some time. Weak coach, weak and talentless players with Campo. Strong coach, still the same weak player leadership under Parcells. And now we have Phillips' velvet touch making the same players who overachieved last season right back to where they were under Parcells.

We were once rumored to be interested in a Ray Lewis type. I had high hopes for Zach Thomas, but he has shown he is too respectful of other "leaders" here. Tony Romo still needs to assert his leadership as well.

It does matter.

how about the giants last year? they had no leader whatsoever. in fact, everyone was complaining that eli would not step up and become that leader. the coach was also on the verge of being fired, the team hated him. the team was totally fractured. 0 leadership, 1 superbowl. they had an amazing defensive line. that's all it took.

 

[Alexander]

how about the giants last year? they had no leader whatsoever.

Michael Strahan wasn't a leader? Antonio Pierce wasn't a leader? I don't think they were just this amazing bunch of talents. They all played together and with heart when it counted. They beat more talented teams who were not playing together. Someone made the lights go on, whether it was a coach or player or a combination of both. In fact, you could say getting rid of a problem child like Tiki Barber helped as well once they adjusted to his talent not being off the field. Championships are won just as much in the locker rooms as they are on the field. If talent was the ultimate issue, we would have been undefeated prior to our rash of injuries. Fact is, we were not. We were coasting and pretty close to floundering then. Pierce had a point after that game. We still had 8-10 Pro Bowlers healthy and laid down.

in fact, everyone was complaining that eli would not step up and become that leader. the coach was also on the verge of being fired, the team hated him. 0 leadership, 1 superbowl. they had an amazing defensive line. that's all it took.

If you believe the Giants won solely because of the defensive line, you are wrong. Eli Manning did step up and they did all believe in themselves once they played New England tough. They all came together.

 

[Mansta54]

how about the giants last year? they had no leader whatsoever. in fact, everyone was complaining that eli would not step up and become that leader. the coach was also on the verge of being fired, the team hated him. the team was totally fractured. 0 leadership, 1 superbowl. they had an amazing defensive line. that's all it took.

Strahan was the number 1 leader on that team, anybody who watches football knows that.. Strahan was their leader...

 

[zeroburrito]

Michael Strahan wasn't a leader? Antonio Pierce wasn't a leader? I don't think they were just this amazing bunch of talents. They all played together and with heart when it counted. They beat more talented teams who were not playing together. Someone made the lights go on, whether it was a coach or player or a combination of both.



If you believe the Giants won solely because of the defensive line, you are wrong. Eli Manning did step up and they did all believe in themselves once they played New England tough. They all came together.

eli did not step up and all the sudden become a leader. the defense stepped up and won them games. thats all there is to it. that dudes helmet also played a pretty big role. leadership will not make you faster, stronger or smarter. the giants have less overall talent than other teams, but they have all their talent in places that matter the most. the lines. we probably have the most talent in the league, but our lines are below average. football is all about the lines...always has been, always will be.

 

[Sarge]

Part of leadership is getting everyone to work as a TEAM.

No doubt.

 

[Alexander]

eli did not step up and all the sudden become a leader.

He stepped up his play, if not his leadership and that is all that mattered as there were others to lead.

You are acting like there were NO leaders. There absolutely was.

the defense stepped up and won them games.

And their offense made the plays when they had to. It is that synergy that many teams lack.

thats all there is to it. that dudes helmet also played a pretty big role.

Wait, Tyree's helmet was more important than the player's desire to catch that football? :laugh2: Give me a break.

leadership will not make you faster, stronger or smarter.

Physically, no. It will make you more focused and if you make mistakes, a team playing together covers for them. That is what leadership does. It makes them all accountable to themselves and there is comraderie. It is like saying you could win a war with a platoon with nothing but sharpshooter snipers. You won't.

the giants have less overall talent than other teams, but they have all their talent in places that matter the most. the lines.

It is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you see a single Pro Bowler besides Snee on their OL? Can you name any one of their OTs? How about their DTs? I doubt you could without a roster in front of you. Both lines are far from the best top to bottom talent-wise. They all happen to be cohesive and productive because of each other.

 

[Alexander]

football is all about the lines...always has been, always will be.

Then explain how an offensive line full of moderate talent in New England has been able to part of the closest thing to a modern day dynasty?

 

[zeroburrito]

Then explain how an offensive line full of moderate talent in New England has been able to part of the closest thing to a modern day dynasty?

did you watch any patriot football last year? seriously? they dominated everyone but the giants(both times) who dominated them. funny how the giants actually won the superbowl because of that.

 

[Sarge]

how about the giants last year? they had no leader whatsoever. in fact, everyone was complaining that eli would not step up and become that leader. the coach was also on the verge of being fired, the team hated him. the team was totally fractured. 0 leadership, 1 superbowl. they had an amazing defensive line. that's all it took.

Strahan was the epitome of a leader for the Giants and guess what was largely responsible for the Giants SB win - the defense.

I don't know what Giants team you were watching but it wasn't the same one I was watching.

 

[zeroburrito]

Strahan was the epitome of a leader for the Giants and guess what was largely responsible for the Giants SB win - the defense.

I don't know what Giants team you were watching but it wasn't the same one I was watching.

lol. the locker room was totally fractured. they were having so many problems during the year. strahans SKILL on the defensive line helped them win, not his ability to say stuff. you lead by example. i guess he does make a good leader. he dominates on the field. isn't it funny how the best players on the team are somehow named "leaders". they should just be called really good players.

 

[Alexander]

did you watch any patriot football last year? seriously?

I certainly did.

they dominated everyone but the giants(both times) who dominated them. funny how the giants actually won the superbowl because of that.

And that does not answer the question. I am not debating that the Giants D line is the best in football because it is. You are the one claiming that the lines (both offensive and defensive) are all that matter. So, again, explain how the Giants OL is excellent with only one Pro Bowler and how the Patriots have won championships with theirs?

 

[Alexander]

lol. the locker room was totally fractured. they were having so many problems during the year. strahans SKILL on the defensive line helped them win, not his ability to say stuff. you lead by example. i guess he does make a good leader. he dominates on the field. isn't it funny how the best players on the team are somehow named "leaders". they should just be called really good players.

Great players who can lead is exactly what we are referring to. Talent does not exist in some vacuum where it simply overwhelms everything. You can gameplan and scheme away even the greatest talents on the football field. Per your simplistic analysis, the most talent always should prevail. That is far from the case. Intangibles such as leadership and teamwork can be just as influential. If you knew a thing about the game, you would acknowledge this. There is a simple reason why players who have actually won championships can point this out and yet you fail to grasp it.

And explain how the Giants to a player would admit that Strahan was a leader? Apparently you know better. Do tell.

 

[zeroburrito]

Great players who can lead is exactly what we are referring to. Talent does not exist in some vacuum where it simply overwhelms everything. You can gameplan and scheme away even the greatest talents on the football field. Per your simplistic analysis, the most talent always should prevail. That is far from the case. Intangibles such as leadership and teamwork can be just as influential. If you knew a thing about the game, you would acknowledge this. There is a simple reason why players who have actually won championships can point this out and yet you fail to grasp it.

And explain how the Giants to a player would admit that Strahan was a leader? Apparently you know better. Do tell.

i never said the team with the most talent would prevail, just the team with the talent in the right spots. it doesn't even have to be talent, they just have to be playing really well at the right time. they will USUALLY prevail, not always. **** happens and you fumble or have a bad day or whatever. you don't get a second chance in football sadly. hell, we had loads of talent last year and probably should have been 10-6 or 11-5. we were the luckiest team in football last year, maybe one of the luckiest ever.

 

[Alexander]

i never said the team with the most talent would prevail, just the team with the talent in the right spots.

So according to you the best "spots" are what? Defensive end?

it doesn't even have to be talent, they just have to be playing really well at the right time. they will USUALLY prevail, not always. **** happens and you fumble or have a bad day or whatever. you don't get a second chance in football sadly. hell, we had loads of talent last year and probably should have been 10-6 or 11-5. we were the luckiest team in football last year, maybe one of the luckiest ever.

Luck is often created. When teams stay in games and don't overwhelm their opponents they do get fortunate breaks. And how do you get fortunate breaks? By staying together and fighting. That comes from leadership. It doesn't happen by accident. In each one of our losses, you can see the team getting discouraged by something. A turnover, a mistake, a penalty. Then they lack the ability to persevere.

The Giants could have folded up their tents after we had that ten minute drive against them in the divisional playoffs. The defense was dead tired, they would tell you this themselves. Coughlin fired them up at the half with the Jerry Jones ticket story. Is that leadership or motivation? I think so. But it certainly wasn't "talent in the right spots" and lucky bounces that won them that game or the Super Bowl for that matter.

 

[CATCH17]

You have to have leadership from the Quarterback position.

Regardless of how mature you would hope they would be.

Bad body language, preparing yourself badly, or not taking accountability will hurt your team if its coming from your Quarterback.

Romo had good numbers vs the Cardinals and Commanders but his body language was so bad that it trickled down to the entire team.

Thats why you don't want to be Washington right now because they will get a inspired Tony Romo and not the guy who looks like he just woke up from hibernation.