Let's play headcoach... what do YOU do?

[rocboy22]

With no apparent reason?

I dunno. Maybe. Probably would.

But what could he possibly see that nobody else does?

We're talking about a FG. Not exactly the most complicated play, pre-snap wise, in the game. Garrett's probably seen thousands of them in his time.

I'm not sure if this thread is in reference Garrett or not. Undoubtedly that's the way it looks and that's how the discussion will go.

he is the one responsible for counting players. the head coach is not. that is why he would notice this and tell the HC to call a time out.

 

[cowboy_ron]

With no apparent reason?

I dunno. Maybe. Probably would.

But what could he possibly see that nobody else does?

We're talking about a FG. Not exactly the most complicated play, pre-snap wise, in the game. Garrett's probably seen thousands of them in his time.

I'm not sure if this thread is in reference Garrett or not. Undoubtedly that's the way it looks and that's how the discussion will go.

Do you see a similarity that JG has been flamed over? That was the point..people often only look at a result rather than the decision behind the result...most of the time that kick is made successfully

 

[Doomsday101]

With no apparent reason?

I dunno. Maybe. Probably would.

But what could he possibly see that nobody else does?

We're talking about a FG. Not exactly the most complicated play, pre-snap wise, in the game. Garrett's probably seen thousands of them in his time.

I'm not sure if this thread is in reference Garrett or not. Undoubtedly that's the way it looks and that's how the discussion will go.

Again you don't have much time to debate, by the time he explains it chance are you just got a flag and now out of range. What could he have seen? I don't know I'm not in his shoes to say what exactly he saw or did not like but he saw something went to Garrett hollering for a TO and got it.

In the end it falls on garrett but I don't know many coaches who would blow off the coordinators or assitant coaches. You are better off calling the TO and talking about it than screwing around wishing you had

 

[cowboy_ron]

Even if there are 11 on the field and your special team coach runs up and says call TO. Do you do it? There is not a lot of time to hold debate as the play clock is rolling.

 

[Hoofbite]

he is the one responsible for counting players. the head coach is not. that is why he would notice this and tell the HC to call a time out.

How do you know the coach doesn't do it himself as well just for his own peace of mind?

A guy like Garrett who is so calculated even in speech that he can swoon a room of reports by saying nearly nothing for 30 minutes........that guy wouldn't do so for his own sake?

Game on the line?

What would it take? 2 seconds as they line up?

 

[cowboy_ron]

I'm not sure of the idea.

If there are 12 men on the field, obviously you call the timeout.

Not sure why this is up for discussion.

You're taking the easy way out hoof.......YOU are the HC, all you're going by is what your coach is telling you...keep in mind he is making a quick count in just a couple of seconds, so a bad count is POSSIBLE....clocks ticking down..what call do YOU make...ignore his recommendation and risk the penalty, or call the TO?

 

[skicat1898]

The timeout should not be relevant to the kicker, he is SUPPOSE to make the kick regardless.

Hindsight is always 20/20 among the fan base and media.

 

[Hoofbite]

Do you see a similarity that JG has been flamed over? That was the point..people often only look at a result rather than the decision behind the result...most of the time that kick is made successfully

Which is why the "hypothetical" and the "actual" shouldn't be compared.

Garrett was not told of an incorrect number of players.

His own statement was pertaining to actually having time to get the play off.

It wasn't some do-or-die situation either. Garrett wasn't running down the sideline waving his arms trying to get the attention of the official.

He had plenty of time to assess the claim, which hopefully he could do in such a situation and he still called a timeout.

In reality, the timeout was icing on the cake after how the last 20+ seconds were handled which is another reason why the hypothetical isn't an accurate portrayal.

The team farted away a good amount of time with multiple timeouts in hand.

 

[Hoofbite]

You're taking the easy way out hoof.......YOU are the HC, all you're going by is what your coach is telling you...keep in mind he is making a quick count in just a couple of seconds, so a bad count is POSSIBLE....clocks ticking down..what call do YOU make...ignore his recommendation and risk the penalty, or call the TO?

What do you mean easy way out?

If you are going to get penalized, of course you call the timeout.

That wasn't the case for Garrett.

This whole hypothetical is just getting nonsensical.

The coach who is responsible for getting his unit on the field waits until the players are out there to count?

 

[Dave_in-NC]

First you have to buy you can ice a kicker, which I don't.
Call the time out. If the assistant is wrong he's fired on the spot.

 

[Idgit]

Are you really looking for answers here, or is this a rhetorical thread along the "Thinking-Garrett-has-any-imperfections-is-unacceptable" line that has become so popular?

Because if it's the former, you've loaded the question with a lot of opinion and bias.

Of course you call the timeout if you think you might be avoiding a penalty that takes you out of FG range. There is not 'icing your own kicker.' That's a dumb argument. You manage your game as best you can with limited time outs, and then your kicker goes out and makes kicks when he needs to for the team to win. If he misses, it's on him. We're lucky we had a good one last year, because we needed him.

I'm bolding Shinywalrus's line, above, too, to ask if anybody else has seen any evidence of the phenomenon he seems to have unearthed? I've seen plenty of legitimate criticism of JG on this board, and don't recognize this line, at all. But if it's a real thing, I'm interested to know more about it since it would make some of the sniveling about how last season turned out more understandable.

 

[Verdict]

In fairness to the "usual suspects" in the "bash everything the Cowboys do crowd", Jason Garrett's clock management skills and some strategic decisions in play calling aren't very good at times. His strengths are his intelligence and his analytical decision making skills. During the game, he makes some bone headed decisions. To deny that fact is like burying your head in the sand.

Even with his weaknesses he is a good coach. But I think he is harsh enough on himself that he will shore up the weak links in his "coaching game". That is part of what makes him who he is.

 

[rocboy22]

In fairness to the "usual suspects" in the "bash everything the Cowboys do crowd", Jason Garrett's clock management skills and some strategic decisions in play calling aren't very good at times. His strengths are his intelligence and his analytical decision making skills. During the game, he makes some bone headed decisions. To deny that fact is like burying your head in the sand.

Even with his weaknesses he is a good coach. But I think he is harsh enough on himself that he will shore up the weak links in his "coaching game". That is part of what makes him who he is.

totally agree with all of this

 

[Idgit]

In fairness to the "usual suspects" in the "bash everything the Cowboys do crowd", Jason Garrett's clock management skills and some strategic decisions in play calling aren't very good at times. His strengths are his intelligence and his analytical decision making skills. During the game, he makes some bone headed decisions. To deny that fact is like burying your head in the sand.

Even with his weaknesses he is a good coach. But I think he is harsh enough on himself that he will shore up the weak links in his "coaching game". That is part of what makes him who he is.

Does anybody disagree that he makes game-management mistakes? JG himself goes into press conferences and says there's a half-dozen calls every game he regrets after the fact. I think we all know this, don't we?

JG has tons of room for improvement. He's far from a finished product as a head coach. But he's also got a lot going for him.

 

[Tabascocat]

It has been gone over a 1000 times. The so-called incident of "icing" is not that big a deal to me. If a coach tells you something that will get a penalty, then call the TO. The kicker should have made the 2nd one too IMO, its on him.

But I am not excluding Garrett's clock management either and will not go into that again.

 

[kmd24]

This actually comes pretty easy for me as I encounter this on a nightly basis in my profession.

Were we in a casino, I'd tell you not to tap the glass.

Happily, most people are decidedly results-oriented as you're undoubtedly aware and countless threads demonstrate.

Nevermind the fact that icing doesn't work.

 

[Hoofbite]

Were we in a casino, I'd tell you not to tap the glass.

Happily, most people are decidedly results-oriented as you're undoubtedly aware and countless threads demonstrate.

Nevermind the fact that icing doesn't work.

I wonder if they looked at kicks that were given ample time or simply just kicks under 10 seconds.

If you aren't iced, it's because the clock is running and everything is hurried so there's zero point for the opposition to call a timeout.

If you are iced, it's going to be because the clock is stopped and the opposition wants to stretch things out.

The differences in percentages leads me to believe they are simply looking at all kicks under 10 seconds so hurried kicks would be a part of it, skewing everything all to hell.

 

[cowboy_ron]

Does anybody disagree that he makes game-management mistakes? JG himself goes into press conferences and says there's a half-dozen calls every game he regrets after the fact. I think we all know this, don't we?

JG has tons of room for improvement. He's far from a finished product as a head coach. But he's also got a lot going for him.

EVERY HC makes mistakes...look at Reid in Philly...makes some really boneheaded decicions with the clock, the gimmick plays that never work, and he's been doing for what 15 yrs or so and by some is seen as an awesome HC...Bellichick made a pretty costly one in the super bowl.

 

[Doc50]

I like your scenerio, Ron. We all think we can coach these boys and manage the game better in tough situations, but we probably aren't aware of many of the variables involved at that time in that particular decision. And for future strategic purposes, it may not be wise to be totally forthcoming with the media in the post-mortem -- it could provide the opposition some insight on proprietary game management philosophy. Do we the fans really need to know everything the coaches are thinking?

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I call the TO every time. Any responsible and common-sensical coach would.