LET'S review the O-Line that Bill Parcells has built here

[ZRO]

Now that I've sat down and looked at it this, it is really quite pathetic. Almost pathetic to the point that you could say it's so bad that it could maybe even cost him his job. He's been here 3 years and the Offensive Line, BY FAR the most important position on the field, is worse than it was when he arrived.

Torin Tucker - on his best day he's mediocre. He'll never be more than a below average Tackle and has no business on this team. No business on this team.

Rob Pettiti - ditto for him. The guy is utterly pathetic and gets tossed around like a ragdoll by every DE in the league.

Marco Rivera - a FLAT OUT JOKE. This is a 33 year old, who was never considered dominant or elite, and we made him one of the highest paid guards in NFL history. BRILLIANT! He was only effective in Green Bay's finesse blocking schemes, he's terrible here. Worst free agent signing in team history.

Stephen Peterman - A fat blob who despite all the struggles at guard still hasn't been decent enough to see the field. Total scrub.

Jacob Rodgers - According to JJT, our scouts begged BP not to draft this guy and he went ahead and did it anyway. Thanks Bill. Rodgers didn't even last 2 seasons.

Al Johnson - Our center position is just as bad as it was when we drafted this guy 3 years ago. It was brutal watching him get dominated by that no-name DT on the Giants yesterday.

Andre Gurode - AT BEST he's decent. He's never lived up to the hype and isn't NFL starter material, he's a career backup.

Ryan Young - Remember him? Washed up Parcells guy who came in here ad stunk it up. Great signing.

Now granted, I'll blame some of this on coaching. You look at teams like the Colts, Falcons and Broncos who can plug nobodies into their O-Line and dominate, and you can't help but point a finger at the coaches. Parcells' buddy Soprano failed everywhere he's been and has come here and stunk it up just as bad.

BUT.. it ultimately falls on BP. He drafts the players, he hires the coaches. The Offensive Line is UNQUESTIONABLY the most important position on the football field, and 3 years into his tenure he has one of the worst ones in the NFL.

Inexcusable.

 

[TheHustler]

I believe the Falcons have good old Matt Lehr starting....

 

[AbeBeta]

Lookit. He came here and the line was crap. Just plain awful. Two good players Flo and LA. Actually LA sucked then and BP got him back to being a quality player. We made some decisions that didn't pan out -- that happens with picks and FAs. But you can only fix so much at once.

 

[wileedog]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but lets keep one thing in mind.

Last year if I asked ANY of you what is the biggest problem on this team, you would have said lack of a pass rush/defensive front 7.

OK, ok, actually most of you would have said QB, but AFTER that you would have said defensive front 7. We haven't had a pass rush since Haley left.

I think O-line would have been a distant 3rd.

For the most part, we fixed the D-line this year. I'd like to see the same love for the O-line this season. If it doesn't happen your criticisms of Parcells will be duly justified - heck I'll join ya.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Agree 100% about Tucker...

I think Pettiti will be fine in a coouple years...needs to develop. thown into fire.

Rivera...I was ok with this FA, almost puked on the $$, he is exactly as I expected average....

LA...getting old with NOONE to replace him.

Flo...should be moved to RT...could be dominant there.



Bottom line...absolutley no prospects behind OG's...

Gotta get a legit LT...Flo has had one Pro-bowl (last one did not count...was not voted in), and we think he's the answer there...average LT...top notch RT!

Need young top OG's...

 

[Alexander]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but lets keep one thing in mind.

Last year if I asked ANY of you what is the biggest problem on this team, you would have said lack of a pass rush/defensive front 7.

OK, ok, actually most of you would have said QB, but AFTER that you would have said defensive front 7. We haven't had a pass rush since Haley left.

I think O-line would have been a distant 3rd.

For the most part, we fixed the D-line this year. I'd like to see the same love for the O-line this season. If it doesn't happen your criticisms of Parcells will be duly justified - heck I'll join ya.

My biggest complaint was that we should have seen this coming after we installed Bledsoe as the starter. We knew he would need flawless protection to be effective. But we decided to stand pat at RT and did virtually nothing to upgrade the starting caliber. We figured Rivera would just make the player next to him better through osmosis.

That kind of thought process should bother anyone.

 

[ddh33]

I think Bill has been "handicapped" (to use one of his words) by the whole line.

He had a talented LT who could be a very good player if he put his mind to it consistently. Since you don't find those kinds of guys often, Bill took a chance on Flozell. That's worked out pretty well.

Larry Allen was at the end of the road. Bill has helped him find a little bit of a fountain of youth. In the process, that rendered one of the draft picks (Peterman) as nothing more than a backup.

Al Johnson was drafted to shore up the center position, and he promptly misses his entire rookie year. Last year, he played pretty well. This season, he's played pretty well again, although he does struggle with some of the stronger DTs that he faces.

Jacob Rogers was on his way to being a good tackle for this team. By all reports, he locked up RT within days and was playing well. Unfortunately, Rogers doesn't want to be a football player. That one hurt a lot.

Petittie does want to be a football player, but he's young and inexperienced, and it shows at times. He shouldn't have been forced into action so early, but that's the cards...He does seem to have potential though, so all is not lost.

Rivera has been my biggest disappointment on the line, but he also had a fluke injury that gives him a little bit of a free pass. He's also been a valuable leader on this team.

Tucker has been a very good backup. I don't know how much more you should expect from him.


I would love to upgrade the line, but I think it's going to take some awfully hard decisions. I think some of the youth will have to greatly improve or sit. I think some of the vets will also have to do better or move on. But it's going to cost money and picks to bring in new guys...

 

[JPM]

At the beginning of the year if you told me Rivera and Al would both have a bad year I would have laughed. I had high hopes for both. How many Al for Pro Bowl threads were there ?
Peterman needs to get on the field and let's see if he can do anything.

Think Derek Kinnard would like to make a come back ?

 

[wileedog]

My biggest complaint was that we should have seen this coming after we installed Bledsoe as the starter. We knew he would need flawless protection to be effective. But we decided to stand pat at RT and did virtually nothing to upgrade the starting caliber. We figured Rivera would just make the player next to him better through osmosis.

That kind of thought process should bother anyone.

We thought we were going to have a 2nd round pick at RT, and Rivera next to him.

On paper that should have been loads better than a much-worse Tucker and Gurode that we had last year.

With all the draft-picks largely going to defense, there wasn't room to do much more than sign Rivera, which was obviously a mistake.

 

[ZRO]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but lets keep one thing in mind.

Last year if I asked ANY of you what is the biggest problem on this team, you would have said lack of a pass rush/defensive front 7.

OK, ok, actually most of you would have said QB, but AFTER that you would have said defensive front 7. We haven't had a pass rush since Haley left.

I think O-line would have been a distant 3rd.

For the most part, we fixed the D-line this year. I'd like to see the same love for the O-line this season. If it doesn't happen your criticisms of Parcells will be duly justified - heck I'll join ya.

Havent we already done this though? BP spent 2nd round picks on Al Johnson, Jacob Rodgers and Andre Gurode, and spent a boatload of money on Rivera.

That's pretty much equal to drafting Spears, Ware and Canty and signing Ferguson.

Granted, we aren't going to have two first's to spend on the o-Line, but they've clearly tried to upgrade it just as much and it has turned out to be horrible.

 

[DipChit]

My biggest complaint was that we should have seen this coming after we installed Bledsoe as the starter. We knew he would need flawless protection to be effective. But we decided to stand pat at RT and did virtually nothing to upgrade the starting caliber. We figured Rivera would just make the player next to him better through osmosis.

That kind of thought process should bother anyone.

Mmhmm. It's been ugly alright. Now overall he's at least tried to upgrade the unit since he's been here but it hasnt exactly panned out to say the least.

If 4 of the 5 besides RT were an otherwise solid unit, then maybe he coulda got away with that. But not only is Rivera new to the unit to begin with, but he's got enough wood to chop even doing his own job, obviously.

Once you had to protect *both* Tackles and had a middle 3 (even if they aint all all-pros), that hasnt exactly played together for a couple years or more, you were pretty much sunk.

O-lines need not only a certain degree of talent, but a degree of continuity also.

 

[Eskimo]

Havent we already done this though? BP spent 2nd round picks on Al Johnson, Jacob Rodgers and Andre Gurode, and spent a boatload of money on Jacob Rodgers.

Gurode was picked the year before BP came here.

You can add in Peterman as another possible wasted pick - 3rd rounder - has not looked good in either preseason to my eyes. Has been inactive most of the year. I wonder if he can be moved to center.

 

[wileedog]

Havent we already done this though? BP spent 2nd round picks on Al Johnson, Jacob Rodgers and Andre Gurode, and spent a boatload of money on Jacob Rodgers.

That's pretty much equal to drafting Spears, Ware and Canty and signing Ferguson.

Granted, we aren't going to have two first's to spend on the o-Line, but they've clearly tried to upgrade it just as much and it has turned out to be horrible.

He didn't draft Gurode.

Rodgers got 2nd round pick money, not really a 'boatload'. I'll give you that he and Peterman were poor picks however.

Al Johnson was fine last year, and hasn't played as bad for the most part this year as is thought around here. I think we wouldn't notice him as much if Rivera wasn't so bad next to him.

Rivera was a terrible decision too, although I think even the biggest detractors of the move at the time thought he would be better than this.

You also have to remember that Flo and Larry are getting big time cap money for so-so production (or none currently, in Flo's case). THere is only so much money you can throw at the line.

I'm not absolving BP of blame here, merely mitigating it some. If nothing tangible is done this offseason to blow this thing up, then I will fully agree with you.

 

[te0002]

AS for Flo at RT - isn't he legally deaf in his left ear, which is one of the main reasons he's a LT?

The Ol has been a huge disappointment - as it has been for years - but I cut petitti some slack seeing as how he was a 7th rd. pick who, by all rights, should be on the PS. Rivera - huge letdown; Johnson - technical but way to light; Allen - fine; Tucker - another PS guy who should be at the end of his road.

I agree - sadly - the draft board has changed for the Cowboys - OL first and maybe second and then LB/FS third.

Very disappointing

 

[AbeBeta]

I disagree about how we draft. In the first you need the best player, not necessarily the guy who fits your need best. Need drafting means reaching. That's fine for later rounds but reaching in the first is stupid.

If there is a great lineman there -- awesome. If not, we've got to go LB, WR, FS -- wherever the best value is.

The second round is a great round for linemen, as is the third.

One thing that I am sure of is this. BP isn't going to reach. If Jerry will still running our drafts, not only would we reach but we'd trade up 3 or 4 spots to make it a bigger reach.

 

[Alexander]

We thought we were going to have a 2nd round pick at RT, and Rivera next to him.

On paper that should have been loads better than a much-worse Tucker and Gurode that we had last year.

With all the draft-picks largely going to defense, there wasn't room to do much more than sign Rivera, which was obviously a mistake.

The writing should have been on the wall with Rogers after he did not even suit up. It was about as foolish to pin our hopes on him as it was to pin our hopes on Pete Hunter the previous year. It was just a case of wishful thinking that did not pan out.

 

[Ashwynn]

Now that I've sat down and looked at it this, it is really quite pathetic. Almost pathetic to the point that you could say it's so bad that it could maybe even cost him his job. He's been here 3 years and the Offensive Line, BY FAR the most important position on the field, is worse than it was when he arrived.

I think they are following a mutli year plan, not a get rich quick scheme. Parcells knew the Oline was not up to standards I think, but he thought he could get by with a stout D. We did for a bit then Flo got hurt. He really is a strong man and his lose hurts us mnore then some may recognize.

Give Parcells this off season to address the O line. its appearent that thats the main concern. FS and K will be addressed too. Then when we have all the pieces together, you will love what you see. Till then, its a pretty ugly piece of something. But its not all that bad either. You gotta admit you love what Parcells has done for the D. Its real and its ready to take off. Now imagine this time next year after Parcells spends the entire focus of our offseason retooling that line and gets a FS and K and a speedy Receiever not named Owens. Think about that for a few minutes. The kinda make over the D received. Just as effective. Imagine that line opening holes for JJ, Bledsoe having 5-6-7 seconds of uninterrupted time to find Glenn 60 yards downfield. Then the D goes out and 3 and outs them, here come that O again. Ya like that? Its coming. Parcells aint going no where anytime soon, unless hes ready to ride off into the sunset. We both know he aint leaving this like this. So close and yet so far.

 

[big_neil]

The last two games weren't MUST wins, they were more statement games. Our statement is that we're not ready because we can't run and get protect the QB, and to some degree because Drew isn't putting up career numbers anymore. This game is a must win. But it's reminding me of 1999, when the Pats started 7-2, and finished 8-8. Every game was a must win. Other teams kept losing to keep the Pats alive, but their O-line was like a turnstile and Drew ended up with a Favre-like 19 TD 21 INT.

 

[big_neil]

The Pats started 6-2 rather.

 

[wileedog]

The writing should have been on the wall with Rogers after he did not even suit up. It was about as foolish to pin our hopes on him as it was to pin our hopes on Pete Hunter the previous year. It was just a case of wishful thinking that did not pan out.

Maybe.

But you still don't go out and sign yet another expensive free agent there when you have a 2nd Round Draft pick already on the roster going into his second year, and who by all accounts had a "very good" offseason. Its not the same thing as Hunter at all.

I think they gambled that he would "get it" this year. I'm not sure I blame them, plenty of guys take a year or two or three to figure out this isn't college anymore.

Rogers failed spectacularly.