Let's take a look at the QBs

[THUMPER]

I stopped reading at the bold part of your statement, because I know whats coming. An irrelavant argument. Why? You just highjacked what I said to suit your feelings. I NEVER said they (or any prolific QB) sucked, but you just implied that I did. A lie. That makes your argument irrelavant.

My mistake, you didn't say they sucked, you said they weren't great:

BUT, stats don't make a great QB, they only make a good one. Great QBs will their team to win. Sometimes he (Romo) does.... sometimes he doesn't.

You know for an engineer, you're not very analytical.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

He didn't stop him, but he curbed it enough to win a Superbowl!

Exactly.

 

[THUMPER]

Let's put things into perspective here folks...

No team in the history of the NFL has ever won a championship simply by having a great QB. They win because they have a great defense, a consistent running game, solid special teams, and a good QB.

We have all seen some of the greatest QBs ever to play NOT win championships because their defense let them down or they didn't have a running game to support them (Tittle, Jurgensen, Fouts, Moon, Marino, etc.).

We have also seen some teams with not so great QBs win championships because they had outstanding defenses and running games ('91 Commanders, '00 Ravens for instance). Usually, it requires a complete team in order to win but sometimes if a couple of areas are strong enough you can compensate for the weaker areas.

When we won 3 SBs in the 90s we had a great QB in Aikman, the all-time leading rusher in Emmitt, and a very solid defense. Our STs were also excellent year in and year out.

My point in all this is that we have a great QB in Romo but we lack in those other areas at key points in the games. Our defense breaks down, our STs give up big returns late in games, our running game disappears, etc.

Those of us old enough to have watched Roger Staubach play can remember how many times he threw multiple INTs in a game only to lead us to victory in the end but it usually required that our defense also stepped up and made big plays late in those games. Larry Cole stuffing John Riggins for a loss or recovering a fumble (Cole was the man!). It wasn't simply Staubach playing great, which he did, it was the whole team's stepping up and that's what we are NOT seeing with this current team.

Romo made a great comeback the other night, TWICE!, but the defense failed to make stops on plays they were expecting.

Staubach, Montana and Elway are known for their late game comebacks but those usually had to happen because THEY made a bunch of mistakes early on. In the 1981 NFC Championship game (you know, "The Catch") we had dominated the game and Montana had thrown 3 INTs before leading his team down the field for the go ahead score. Wait, Saint Joe threw 3 INTs in that game? Yep, he sure did. But he gets a pass because they won. They wouldn't have won if not for Carlton Williamson making a fingertip tackle on Drew Pearson after the Clark TD. Pearson would have scored or at least put us in easy FG range and we would have won the game. If the blitz on Danny White hadn't caused him to fumble the ball we still had a chance to win it and Montana would have been labeled as the goat for throwing the game away.

I could go on and on (too late) but you get the idea. Great QBs make mistakes but they also find a way to come back from them. Romo has shown over and over that he has that ability. What is lacking is for the rest of the team to step up in those situations and make big plays like they did for Staubach, Montana, & Elway.

 

[DIAF]

Hahahaha.

Stats are great for FANTASY FOOTBALL. Its the stats that you accummulate when the chips are down and your team needs you to pull through in December and January that matter. In that particular aspect, Romo falls flat on his face.

I don't have much use for a QB that tosses 4 tds a game in sept/oct/nov and then takes the rest of the year off.

 

[THUMPER]

Hahahaha.

Stats are great for FANTASY FOOTBALL. Its the stats that you accummulate when the chips are down and your team needs you to pull through in December and January that matter. In that particular aspect, Romo falls flat on his face.

I don't have much use for a QB that tosses 4 tds a game in sept/oct/nov and then takes the rest of the year off.

Then which team do you root for?

 

[YosemiteSam]

You know for an engineer, you're not very analytical.

Lets see. I say that passing stats alone do not define a *GREAT* QB. It only determines if a QB is very *GOOD*. The fact that this is an opinion, I cannot be wrong. I can only be disagreed with. If *YOU*
had analyzed what was happening, you would have known that and never should have questioned my my analytical skills in the first place based on what I was saying.

Good:

• of high quality; excellent
• competent or skillful
• skillfully or expertly done

Great:

• being such in an extreme or notable degree
• remarkable; exceptionally outstanding

Like I said, a QB that just puts of stats doesn't make a great QB. A great QB can will his team to win. Was Rich Gannon a *great* QB? Is Jeff Garcia a *great* QB? Both of those guys could light up the stat sheet.

No, but they were/are good QBs.

 

[Rampage]

why are people in this thread calling Romo elite? what has he done to make you think he's elite? he's got more weapons than any other qb in the league but can't seem to throw to any of them other than Witten and T.O. he is careless with the ball and has a long way to go before he's an "elite" qb in the NFL. oh I know his finger hurts or his back hurts or he's only in his 3rd full season even though he got a front row seat to sit,watch, and learn for 4 years. save it! now his defense is finally playing good too. so if Romo wants to be "elite" he has to stop turning the ball over so much, start spreading the ball around to wrs not named Witten or Owens and he needs to start winning some REAL big games starting this Sunday.

 

[Givincer]

Like I said, a QB that just puts of stats doesn't make a great QB. A great QB can will his team to win. Was Rich Gannon a *great* QB? Is Jeff Garcia a *great* QB? Both of those guys could light up the stat sheet.

No, but they were/are good QBs.

This is the simplistic view of the game most fans tend to adopt.

Fact is the quarterback is the most dependent position on the field. And wins are a function of the entire team's play, not of simply a quarterback's "willing" a team to win.

 

[MONT17]

Let's put things into perspective here folks...

No team in the history of the NFL has ever won a championship simply by having a great QB. They win because they have a great defense, a consistent running game, solid special teams, and a good QB.

We have all seen some of the greatest QBs ever to play NOT win championships because their defense let them down or they didn't have a running game to support them (Tittle, Jurgensen, Fouts, Moon, Marino, etc.).

We have also seen some teams with not so great QBs win championships because they had outstanding defenses and running games ('91 Commanders, '00 Ravens for instance). Usually, it requires a complete team in order to win but sometimes if a couple of areas are strong enough you can compensate for the weaker areas.

When we won 3 SBs in the 90s we had a great QB in Aikman, the all-time leading rusher in Emmitt, and a very solid defense. Our STs were also excellent year in and year out.

My point in all this is that we have a great QB in Romo but we lack in those other areas at key points in the games. Our defense breaks down, our STs give up big returns late in games, our running game disappears, etc.

Those of us old enough to have watched Roger Staubach play can remember how many times he threw multiple INTs in a game only to lead us to victory in the end but it usually required that our defense also stepped up and made big plays late in those games. Larry Cole stuffing John Riggins for a loss or recovering a fumble (Cole was the man!). It wasn't simply Staubach playing great, which he did, it was the whole team's stepping up and that's what we are NOT seeing with this current team.

Romo made a great comeback the other night, TWICE!, but the defense failed to make stops on plays they were expecting.

Staubach, Montana and Elway are known for their late game comebacks but those usually had to happen because THEY made a bunch of mistakes early on. In the 1981 NFC Championship game (you know, "The Catch") we had dominated the game and Montana had thrown 3 INTs before leading his team down the field for the go ahead score. Wait, Saint Joe threw 3 INTs in that game? Yep, he sure did. But he gets a pass because they won. They wouldn't have won if not for Carlton Williamson making a fingertip tackle on Drew Pearson after the Clark TD. Pearson would have scored or at least put us in easy FG range and we would have won the game. If the blitz on Danny White hadn't caused him to fumble the ball we still had a chance to win it and Montana would have been labeled as the goat for throwing the game away.

I could go on and on (too late) but you get the idea. Great QBs make mistakes but they also find a way to come back from them. Romo has shown over and over that he has that ability. What is lacking is for the rest of the team to step up in those situations and make big plays like they did for Staubach, Montana, & Elway.

Those players didnt fall behind in every big game they played, what did Montana do before or after that NFC championship game... it seems like Romo does fall behind more than to be expected by an elite QB!

I feel like if Romo didnt do anything for 59 minutes and scored 3 TDs in 30 seconds while the Cowboys lost 24 to 21 on a last second FG some ppl wouldnt lay any blame on the QB!


sometimes you need the QB to pick up the rest of the team! Romo is not good at that... yeah he can do that v. the Bills or the Lions, but who cares its the Bills and the Lions

QBs and Coaches are judged on 1 stat... wins!!!

 

[YosemiteSam]

This is the simplistic view of the game most fans tend to adopt.

Fact is the quarterback is the most dependent position on the field. And wins are a function of the entire team's play, not of simply a quarterback's "willing" a team to win.

Logically I would agree, but then again what seems simplistically logical isn't always the real answer.

The Cowboys took A LOT of heat this year saying that the team didn't have a real leader. The QB is naturally a leadership position. A lot of people say Michael Irvin was a leader on the team, but go ask him who the *real* leader on the team was. Aikman put Irvin in his place once they hit the field and he will tell you that. He said that he entered the huddle complaining and Aikman told him to shut the **** up, that this was his huddle and he is the only one allowed to speak.

Irvin said that was the day he begun to fully respected Aikman because he meant business and his business was winning.

 

[percyhoward]

Let's put things into perspective here folks...

No team in the history of the NFL has ever won a championship simply by having a great QB. They win because they have a great defense, a consistent running game, solid special teams, and a good QB.

Perspective schmerspective.

It's easier to put all the blame or credit on one guy.

 

[THUMPER]

Those players didnt fall behind in every big game they played, what did Montana do before or after that NFC championship game... it seems like Romo does fall behind more than to be expected by an elite QB!

Actually, they did. There's a reason why those 3 guys are known for their late game heroics and it is because they fell behind. You don't have a come-from-behind-win unless you fell behind to begin with.

I feel like if Romo didnt do anything for 59 minutes and scored 3 TDs in 30 seconds while the Cowboys lost 24 to 21 on a last second FG some ppl wouldnt lay any blame on the QB!

Of course Romo deserves some of the blame but not all of it and if he did score 3 TDs in 30 seconds and our defense STILL allowed the other team to come back and kick a game winning FG then I would blame the defense, not Romo.

sometimes you need the QB to pick up the rest of the team! Romo is not good at that... yeah he can do that v. the Bills or the Lions, but who cares its the Bills and the Lions

Name a QB in the league today that is good at that...

QBs and Coaches are judged on 1 stat... wins!!!

Wow, that's a very simplistic means of measurement. It also means that Romo is one of the best in the league since his winning% is pretty high. Among active QBs with at least 3 seasons, he is 3rd behind Brady and Roethlisberger in winning % and ahead of both Mannings. He is well ahead of Drew Brees and Philip Rivers and Kurt Warner.

Oh, you just mean in games that you wanted him to win. I get it.

 

[Givincer]

QBs and Coaches are judged on 1 stat... wins!!!

Wade Phillips in Dallas: 22-10
Wade Phillips in Dallas w/ Tony Romo: 21-8

 

[YosemiteSam]

Wade Phillips in Dallas: 22-10

Thats a 68% winning precentage. Why is everyone asking for Wade's job? :laugh2:

 

[Givincer]

Thats a 68% winning precentage. Why is everyone asking for Wade's job? :laugh2:

Good question.

If we take a look at who is asking for Wade's job, I think we get our answer. (Mrs. Engel, Mont117, etc.) :laugh2:

 

[Rampage]

Good question.

If we take a look at who is asking for Wade's job, I think we get our answer. (Mrs. Engel, Mont117, etc.) :laugh2:

the fans.

look how the defense has played since Wade "took over". why wasn't he doing that in the 1st place?

Wade doesn't coach penalties and we just happen to lead the league in them.

 

[Givincer]

the fans.

Case in point. :laugh2:

look how the defense has played since Wade "took over". why wasn't he doing that in the 1st place?

Wade doesn't coach penalties and we just happen to lead the league in them.

I'm almost positive Wade's never used the line "I don't coach penalties." I know for sure that Parcells said that though.

 

[Rampage]

Case in point. :laugh2:



I'm almost positive Wade's never used the line "I don't coach penalties." I know for sure that Parcells said that though.

Wade said "I don't coach penalties, I coach players"

 

[djmajestik]

I'm not going to sit here and waste my time, anguing this point.

We have an elite, warrior QB. Just because he can't put this whole suck #$% under achieving team on his shoulders, while he injured on top of it, and WILL them to win week in and week out, doesn't mean HE sucks.

Even Troy Aikman said that he (Troy) was really not that good a QB as to be in the HOF. That it was more about having a great O line, great WR to throw to, and an outstanding running game to help him out. If not for that, he wouldn't even be SMELLING the HOF.

Instead, what WE have, at least right now, is Romo, MAYBE Witten, and everybody else is either injured, or pretty much well is stinking up the joint right now.

The only reason we are even CLOSE to the Playoffs. Is because of Romo.

And to tell you the truth, I'm getting sick of folks bashing him, just because they NEED someone to bash.

I'm &^*^%$& out of here.

Go Cowboys!!!

Dude! Calm down. ONce you get older (and hit puberty) you'll figure out that everyone can think how they want, and that MAY go against every fiber of your being. But it'll be ok. But posting such anger filled rants is not going to help get your point across.

I'll be the first to admit, I agree with you about Romo. He, in my opinion, is one of the BIG reasons we are on the verge of a playoff run. But posting stuff about how him and Witten are going to Miami is bush league man!!!!

Keep it real. Post your "facts" and let people discern for themselves. Seriously. I know we're all on edge here now after that debacle turning the lights out ON Texas Stadium (I for one know that Santa better have brought me another Hi-DEF flat screen) but let's all remember, it is a FORUM for DISCUSSION.

Cool?

 

[Givincer]

Wade said "I don't coach penalties, I coach players"

Wade Phillips on penalties:

Yeah, you can coach them. There's ways to emphasize things. You have to make it important to them. There's a lot of different ways to do it, but turnovers, penalties and those kind of things that hurt your team, certainly we want to coach to not commit penalties and not turn it over.

:laugh2: