Let's talk about receiver acquisition

[Toruk_Makto]

You can control a RB for 7 full years without a new contract, if he was drafted in the first round. That's a majority of his shelf life and probably his best years. What's wrong with that?

All while paying that RB, from day 1, top RB money.

Zeke has been among the best paid rbs since the day he entered the NFL. Every other position in the NFL drafted in the first round...which offers that same 7 year control...comes at a discount relative to their top paid positions.

Said another way....paying for what Ramsey gets you on the open market is hugely expensive relative to his rookie contract. The same is not true for Zeke.

 

[waving monkey]

Are you actually trying to argue that NFL teams value rbs more than they value WRs?

LOL

How did you get that from the article or what I noted ?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

How did you get that from the article or what I noted ?

You asked about an aha moment and listed a bunch of rbs recently drafted.

This thread is debating the relative worth of the RB vs the wr. Is that not the discussion you're having?

 

[Doomsday101]

That's true, within sound salary cap management of course.

True. I will say this for the Cowboys. They have avoided the big payouts in FA and their cap is looking very good for 2019. They are paying guys who are producing on this team which I see as a benefit since they already are playing within the scheme as opposed to getting a player outside who has to come in and learn. We will see how Gallup develops and of course my hope is he can show himself as a legit threat in the NFL.

 

[waving monkey]

You asked about an aha moment and listed a bunch of rbs recently drafted.

This thread is debating the relative worth of the RB vs the wr. Is that not the discussion you're having?

Actually Toruk you are correct as the topic in the OP.
I went into the fray about your long ago comments on first round RBs.
I lost focus ; my bad.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Actually Toruk you are correct as the topic in the OP.
I went into the fray about your long ago comments on first round RBs.
I lost focus ; my bad.

If we look at a small two year sample size it'd be easy to say "The RB is back"....if you zoom out just a bit the trend is clear and has not been broken....taking a RB early is bad cap management and bad talent acquisition practice.

I was thrilled the Giants took Barkley at 2 and I think he has a chance to be a stud.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I am of the opinion that it probably doesn't pay to PAY a receiver who would be considered top 5. If the Cowboys had the chance to sign AJ Green, Julio, Antonio Bryant or whoever you think is top 5 the percentage of the cap is just too great with too much risk.

Receivers seem to be found anywhere in the draft. Wouldn't it be better to keep the OL and DT intact, pay a stud RB (or use a high pick on one) and your QB and draft a receiver in the 2nd-5th round pretty much every year and rotate them out?

Hurns was a 1000 yard receiver and we obtained himfairky cheaply. Wouldn't this be better for out cap and better for the team as a whole?

Interesting ........Green MAY be available after this year for the right price


A.J. Green - WR - Bengals
A.J. Green said he's "comfortable" with his current contract.

Green was, at one point, the highest-paid receiver in football. He's since fallen to sixth on that list behind the likes of Antonio Brown, Mike Evans, DeAndre Hopkins, Sammy Watkins and Jarvis Landry. Green is probably due for a raise, though the 29-year-old isn't worried about his contract status. "At the end of the day I just want to play football," said the seven-time Pro Bowler. "I got my contract. I’m set for life. Now I can just go out there and play." Green's contract expires after 2019.


Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
Jun 24 - 9:55 AM

 

[bandfan]

Here is what I have taken from this thread, because of the abundance of quality players in the lower rounds we should actually just skip the first four rounds to save money on the cap and then we can just draft all the remaining potential all pros...

 

[CPanther95]

Rounds 2 and later is where you take both WRs and RBs. Only consider in the first round if you weren't taking them in later rounds regularly and you ended up with holes (or you whiffed too many times). Never take either in the top 5. If you didn't make the investment and/or you let your WRs degrade to the point that the Cowboys did, I'd have no problem targeting a Top 5 guy.

IOW, you can fill your WR corps with mid to late round picks, but you sure as hell wouldn't want to start from scratch doing it. True the Steelers got AB in the 6th, but the same year (2010 - when Dez was picked) they picked Emmanuel Sanders in the 3rd. They spent a 3rd in '13, 3rd and 4th in '14, 3rd in '15, 2nd in '17 and a 2nd in '18. It takes regular picks into the pipeline to keep the WR corps flush.

 

[mattjames2010]

Teams didn't fear Morris. He was an afterthought. Teams stacked the box to stop Zeke. Huge difference in scenario.

If you were correct we would have kept Morris and cut Zeke loose at a tenth of the cap number.

You don't know if they "feared" Morris - Morris was producing nearly the same as Zeke. That's the point, we spent a top 5 pick on a player when some 6th round pick that is over the hill stepped in and produced like our young stud. It tells you about the position.

Anyone saying they'd choose Zeke over Ramsey at this point is foolish. These teams with superstar RBs aren't winning championships.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

You don't know if they "feared" Morris - Morris was producing nearly the same as Zeke. That's the point, we spent a top 5 pick on a player when some 6th round pick that is over the hill stepped in and produced like our young stud. It tells you about the position.

Anyone saying they'd choose Zeke over Ramsey at this point is foolish. These teams with superstar RBs aren't winning championships.

Great point towards the end there when discussing RBs. I would argue though that the game itself is shifting back to the way it used to be, where RBs were depended on heavily.

We've been living in the elite QB era since about 2001 (coincidentally when bonafide elite RBs stopped winning Super Bowls), and once players like Brady, Brees, Rivers, Manning, Roethlisberger, etc move on, I am certain you will see the dynamic shift. We've just been fortunate enough over the past two decades to witness some of the best QBs to ever play the game. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Aviano90]

Teams didn't fear Morris. He was an afterthought. Teams stacked the box to stop Zeke. Huge difference in scenario.

If you were correct we would have kept Morris and cut Zeke loose at a tenth of the cap number.

Morris faced a stacked box on 38% of his rushing attempts compared to only 35% for Zeke, according to the Next Gen stats.

 

[Verdict]

Morris faced a stacked box on 38% of his rushing attempts compared to only 35% for Zeke, according to the Next Gen stats.

I would suggest that the stats are flawed based on the eye test.

 

[Aviano90]

I would suggest that the stats are flawed based on the eye test.

Eye test told me that Zeke wasn't very good last year and it wasn't stacked boxes that did him in.

 

[Future]

good rb's get the ball 25 times a game. can't think of many wr's who are thrown to 25 times a game. third and one, critical stage of the game, i'd rather hand off to zeke than throw to a wr. rb's give you control of the clock. wr's are there to get quick yards.

Good WRs impact EVERY pass play, no matter how many times they get thrown the ball.

 

[Future]

Hurns was a 1000 yard receiver and we obtained himfairky cheaply. Wouldn't this be better for out cap and better for the team as a whole?

Hurns was a 1,000 yard receiver in 2015 and hasn't had over 500 yards since, that's why he's cheap.

You know who else had 1,000 yards that year? Gary Barnidge. Should the Cowboys go sign him since he's cheap?

 

[Future]

Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick. 5 of the top 10 RBs last year were 1st rounders. Only 3 of the top 10 WRs were 1st rounders.

Well, it was 4 top-10 RBs.

Bell - 2nd
Shady - 2nd
Gordon - 1st
Gurley - 1st
Howard - 5th
Hunt - 3rd
Fournette - 1st
Gore - 3rd
CJ Anderson - Undrafted
Zeke - 1st

But this is misleading anyways because there's so much variance in WR play, especially when you're using yards as the only barometer. Does anybody really think that Adam Theilen is a better player than AJ Green? That Marvin Jones is better than Mike Evans?

The reality is that there is no big difference between paying a RB or WR - you can just only pick one of them if you have a QB who isn't on a rookie deal. The Cowboys use Zeke to open things up for WRs and the Falcons use Julio to open things up for RBs. I personally would pay the WR, because there are only about 10 or so guys in the league who can be good anywhere. There are about 20 RBs who will give you the same production in every system.

 

[OmerV]

Well, it was 4 top-10 RBs.

Bell - 2nd
Shady - 2nd
Gordon - 1st
Gurley - 1st
Howard - 5th
Hunt - 3rd
Fournette - 1st
Gore - 3rd
CJ Anderson - Undrafted
Zeke - 1st

But this is misleading anyways because there's so much variance in WR play, especially when you're using yards as the only barometer. Does anybody really think that Adam Theilen is a better player than AJ Green? That Marvin Jones is better than Mike Evans?

The reality is that there is no big difference between paying a RB or WR - you can just only pick one of them if you have a QB who isn't on a rookie deal. The Cowboys use Zeke to open things up for WRs and the Falcons use Julio to open things up for RBs. I personally would pay the WR, because there are only about 10 or so guys in the league who can be good anywhere. There are about 20 RBs who will give you the same production in every system.

Gore wasn't top 10, but Ingram was, which makes it 5

Top 10 RBs by yardage were as follows:

Hunt
Gurley
Bell
McCoy
Ingram
Howard
Gordon
Fournette
Anderson
Elliott

 

[Future]

Gore wasn't top 10, but Ingram was, which makes it 5

Top 10 RBs by yardage were as follows:

Hunt
Gurley
Bell
McCoy
Ingram
Howard
Gordon
Fournette
Anderson
Elliott

Shoot I was looking at the wrong year, my bad.

 

[Big_D]

Rather pay a RB some one who is touching the ball 350 t0 400 times and scoring double digit TDs over any WR. Zeke will be an example of this type of production and he should cash in because of it. I'll take that over a WR every time. I was for keeping Dez over Murray, but not when it comes to Elliott. The guy is a keeper. And he'll surpass Gurley at some point.