Let's Talk O-line

[xwalker]

How about we do this.

Move a freakin tight end over and help Free.

Leave Martin where he is and allow the line to come together and work as a one.

Moving a TE over doesn't always solve the problem. If the TE blocks and extra defender could end up rushing and the TE will have to block that player. It still helps to an extent because there is less space for the DE to rush wide if the TE is on the outside blocking a LB, but it often doesn't allow the TE and RT to just double team 1 pass rusher.

 

[CF74]

Have t they been using Witten to help out Free a ton?

They did last year but I haven't seen it yet this season, still early so I'd assume Witten will start to chip the DE if this issue persists...

 

[CF74]

Once again for the hundredth time - let's just go get a draft pick and start winning 10+ games a year. It's so easy even a caveman could do it. Just like we did Quincy - wait...what?

Look, I'm all for finding the next guy and If Romo isn't right - yes first two rounds. If he ends up being okay, hell to the no! You guys live in Disneyworld with these kind of statements. If Romo is okay the guy we can win 10+ wins is already in the huddle. He's gotten us to 8 without the help, let's see what he can do with a dominant offensive line and running game.

BTW- Mr. Toad's WIld Ride is vastly underrated. It's right across the street from It's A Small World (really it is) - check it out.

Speaking of lala land some of you are still in total denial about Romo. He couldn't get it done with 13 Pro Bowlers on the roster and now with a bad back he definetly can't get it done. The $108Mill contract was the second biggest failure of Jerry's moves next to running Jimmy out of town. Everybody knows it's hit or miss in the draft but you still gotta try, relying on an old vet that is a shell of himself isn't going to get us very far.

Congrats you turned a thread about O-line into another Romo thread...

 

[marchetta]

Since the draft I've been against any plan tht involved moving Martin to OT and that hasn't changed. Draft or sign Free's replacement.

Exactly. The consensus opinion amongst "experts" is that Martin's ideal position is G. Why move him when you can draft a RT next year?

 

[jobberone]

Speaking of lala land some of you are still in total denial about Romo. He couldn't get it done with 13 Pro Bowlers on the roster and now with a bad back he definetly can't get it done. The $108Mill contract was the second biggest failure of Jerry's moves next to running Jimmy out of town. Everybody knows it's hit or miss in the draft but you still gotta try, relying on an old vet that is a shell of himself isn't going to get us very far.

Congrats you turned a thread about O-line into another Romo thread...

Seems you both are so let us talk OL.

 

[jobberone]

Too early to tell for certain. You expect pass blocking to be challenging for players particularly the first two years.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Why would people want to do that? Martin is better as a guard than being a tackle. The best thing is to not fix whats broken and draft a reliable tackle.

tackles are harder to find that guards. if he can play tackle and us finding a guards without spending premium picks, then so be it. what we have with martin is flexibility. I am a big proponent of drafting the BPA, always, but rather take a DT in the first than a tackle with all things being equal.

 

[popp1234]

I am emphatically against moving Martin to tackle, this year or future years.

He was drafted 16th overall to be an elite guard, not an above-average tackle (which is how he projects).

Totally agree. To add, I only want to see him moved to tackle in emergency situations only.

 

[Galian Beast]

Our ability to draft a tackle hinges largely on our ability to

a) develop some of these players on defense
b) sign defensive free agents next year

I would say that defensive line is by far our biggest need right now and with that being said we need a lot of help across this line. At this rate Melton won't be retained, and we still have no idea how Demarcus Lawrence will play.

Within the first three rounds we will almost certainly need to draft two defensive linemen, and that's probably on top of signing a defensive linemen or two in free agency.

It predominantly needs to be a defensive draft, but I think we can make one exception for RT.

If you look at our 2015 free agents on defense, most of them shouldn't be resigned.

By letting Free and Parnell go, we're going to save a lot of money. About 8.5 million minus the cost of replacements.

 

[jobberone]

I'm not sure we can tell what we have yet. Many seem convinced we are fine along the interior and not as good at tackle basically RT. It has become a perpetuated myth around here that Free needs replacement.

I've said this and drawn fire but in the interior of the OL has issues with pass blocking. And that is absolutely correct and easily predicted. I've thrown up some charts and data that reiterate it takes the first two years for almost all interior linemen to develop above average skills all around.

One can see the ability to run block but this is the easier of the tasks of run vs pass blocking. Most colleges develop run blocking reasonably well so we see that ability earlier. Leary, Fred, and Martin are excelling at run blocking IMO. They are still learning individually and as a unit to pass block. We all assume they will get better here (if we haven't already decided they are great at it) including myself. And I think they will. It will take some time as all the interior players in essence have less than two years of play and one has 3 games.

Back to tackle. Free is a decent RT who like many RTs performs better at times and not as well at times. This is normal for average to decent RTs. We've all been looking for a less expensive upgrade for awhile now although some call for his head repeatedly and erroneously. We have Parnell and Weems in waiting whom most feel the same way although we don't have the data to know what we have there. I'm not getting into a Parnell debate with anyone. He's unproven with the skillset to excel but hasn't proven it yet and may never. No one but the coaches appears to know what we have in Weems.

We have to let the year play out to see how the interior develops as well as to evaluate Free's play and hopefully his replacement(s). We really need to see if Parnell and/or Weems can play RT at this level. I expect the interior to continue to develop. We will either know something about the other tackles or not before the draft but we'll certainly have a lot more data to make decisions on that.

We'd be better off settled on the OL and using high picks on a safety and whatever picks in the defense that we see at the end of the year including injecting financial decisions into the mix.

 

[gimmesix]

I haven't yet given up hope that Free and Martin will eventually develop a chemistry working together and figure out a way to avoid the pressure. I'm considering the fact that Free did OK with Bernadeau last year working in that spot, so maybe it's simply a matter of time before they find a way to work in better sync together. If this difficulty with Free persists much longer, then I'll be much more likely to assume Free has, indeed, regressed.

Did Free play poorly against the Rams? I didn't notice it if he did, but have to admit I wasn't watching closely.

I think he's another whipping boy around here who is not playing as poorly as some make it out to be.

 

[Carolina Cowboy]

Since the draft I've been against any plan tht involved moving Martin to OT and that hasn't changed. Draft or sign Free's replacement.

I wouldn't be against this BDC, but the idea of using another premium pick on that side of the line to get a tackle, may better be spent on the defensive line then use a "less" premium pick on a guard. If that twist of words makes sense. It's still early and much can happen between now and next April, but I like spending premium picks on big guys. It's worked out pretty well for us...finally.

 

[Carolina Cowboy]

I'm not sure we can tell what we have yet. Many seem convinced we are fine along the interior and not as good at tackle basically RT. It has become a perpetuated myth around here that Free needs replacement.

I've said this and drawn fire but in the interior of the OL has issues with pass blocking. And that is absolutely correct and easily predicted. I've thrown up some charts and data that reiterate it takes the first two years for almost all interior linemen to develop above average skills all around.

One can see the ability to run block but this is the easier of the tasks of run vs pass blocking. Most colleges develop run blocking reasonably well so we see that ability earlier. Leary, Fred, and Martin are excelling at run blocking IMO. They are still learning individually and as a unit to pass block. We all assume they will get better here (if we haven't already decided they are great at it) including myself. And I think they will. It will take some time as all the interior players in essence have less than two years of play and one has 3 games.

Back to tackle. Free is a decent RT who like many RTs performs better at times and not as well at times. This is normal for average to decent RTs. We've all been looking for a less expensive upgrade for awhile now although some call for his head repeatedly and erroneously. We have Parnell and Weems in waiting whom most feel the same way although we don't have the data to know what we have there. I'm not getting into a Parnell debate with anyone. He's unproven with the skillset to excel but hasn't proven it yet and may never. No one but the coaches appears to know what we have in Weems.

We have to let the year play out to see how the interior develops as well as to evaluate Free's play and hopefully his replacement(s). We really need to see if Parnell and/or Weems can play RT at this level. I expect the interior to continue to develop. We will either know something about the other tackles or not before the draft but we'll certainly have a lot more data to make decisions on that.

We'd be better off settled on the OL and using high picks on a safety and whatever picks in the defense that we see at the end of the year including injecting financial decisions into the mix.

It was Parnell I think that let that LB have a straight shot at DM on that 3rd and short that resulted in a FG attempt.

 

[MissouriCowboy]

Free just seems like he very much is bored at times,

 

[EPL0c0]

OLine gave up 0 sacks. Even w/o Long, its still a pretty good Dline

 

[Bullflop]

Did Free play poorly against the Rams? I didn't notice it if he did, but have to admit I wasn't watching closely.

I think he's another whipping boy around here who is not playing as poorly as some make it out to be.

He had a few moments of nearly surrendering sacks but overall did better than he has previously. I'm actually not placing as much blame on him personally as suggesting his working in sync with Martin should improve.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't think Free has regressed or all that much. His run blocking was a bit off, but some of that is on Romo for audibling into bad run plays and waiting until there is 1 second left to snap the ball. The other part is that the Rams were over-committing to the run. And I think Free's pass protection was just fine.

I believe that you have to take it slow with young O-linemen. If you start switching positions, even if it is from LG to RG or vice versa, it is too much for them to take in. They have to stick to one position for at least 1 year and get that position down pat and get used to the speed of the game and the rigors of playing in the NFL. Then you can move that player around.

So, I have zero interest in moving Free to the bench or Martin to RT right now. And I think the O-Line play has been really good so far. Our issues have been Romo getting off to a slow start and audibling too much and doing it too late. I just don't think you're going to get better by switching things up and we are better off sticking with what we have and allowing for them to continue to gel.

For next season I would be interested in seeing if Martin can play RT. Depends on how Free holds up and what his asking price is. We could always draft a guard in rounds 2-4 and see how that pans out. At least I have some confidence in Callahan's ability to identify talent and to develop it on the O-Line.






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[jobberone]

It was Parnell I think that let that LB have a straight shot at DM on that 3rd and short that resulted in a FG attempt.

That's the rumor.