Lett and Haley vs. Ratliff and Ware

[AmishCowboy]

From a pure talent standpoint, there's no doubt Lett was better than Ratliff. Leon's problem was that his motor was not consistent and of course the obvious drug problems. Ratliff's biggest asset arguably is his motor. And with him you dont have to worry about his behavior. So in terms of overall package, Ratliff gets the nod. But Leon had the ability to dominate opponents in a way Ratliff probably never will.

Ware/Haley is probably a wash if both are graded as DEs. Ware's obvious advantage is he can drop back into coverage fairly well and probably has more range than Haley.

Very well put!.

 

[cml750]

I'm just saying you guys are foolish if you think Ware is better than Haley because of stupid sack totals.

I could not agree more!!! Anyone who thinks Ware is way better than Haley is crazy!

One point that nobody has mentioned is that Lett and Haley lined up next to each other. Teams had to scheme to keep them both blocked on the same side. Ware and Ratliff have a defensive end between them. Imagine if Ware and Ratliff lined up next to each other in a 4 - 3. It would make them both better!! Anyone who thinks Ware is too small to play end just needs to look at Haley. Haley was originally a 3 - 4 OLB at Frisco. He converted to end in the Boys 4-3. Similar size, speed, and quickness but Ware does not have a screw loose like Haley. Haley was the missing piece that put us over the top in the 90's.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

You mean like the way Haley had 10 1/2 sacks and 33 pressures in 13 games during the 1995 season while playing with a back injury that required surgery?

That totals to what? 43 1/2 pressures/sacks in only 13 games?

Ware had his best sack season last season with 20 sacks and 20 pressures. 20 + 20 = 40 / 16 games = 2.5 pressure/sacks per game. His best pressure season was the season before when he had 27 pressures with 14 sacks. (41 sack/pressure total)

Haley averaged 3.34 sacks/pressures a game WITH a season long back injury.

Haley had more sack / pressures in a single season in 3 less games that Ware.

I'm not hating on Ware, (he is my favorite player and I own his jersey) I'm just saying you guys are foolish if you think Ware is better than Haley because of stupid sack totals.

Your analysis is flawed.

You're erroneously assuming that a pressure should be weighted the same as a sack, and that Haley's performance through one season (1995) is necessarily indicative of his performance in Dallas as a whole.

Unless you can provide a more comprehensive set of data and a uniform definition for pressure that can be applied to both players, your argument rests on untenable ground.

Until then, I'll take the player who averages more sacks per game, has almost 20 more sacks in one fewer season, and has yet to manifest chronic health problems -- Demarcus Ware.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

Ratliff and Ware and it's not close.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Tough call for me, honestly. I think both sets of guys have their pros and cons and it would be very tough for me to decide which two I'd rather have.

One thing to remember, and factor in, is that Haley and Lett had guys like Tolbert and Maryland, and Tony C., and Henning and Jimmy Jones, etc. to also work around and with them. They had a lot more help, and depth, around them that had to be accounted for than Ratliff and Ware have with them.

It's very tough to compare the two sides, fairly and accurately, just basing things entirely off stats.

I mean if you do that then are you saying that you'd take TO, and his 3 years here, over Irvin? I mean he scored more TDs every season than Irvin did in his best year, I believe. I can't remember what Irvin's best TD season was but it couldnt have been many more than 10 and that was Owens worst season here. Does that make him a better WR for Dallas than Irvin? I'd think not but maybe I'm bias.

Or how about the fact that Romo has thrown for more 300 yard games, already, then Aikman had in his entire career? Is Romo some how a much better QB cause of that? I'd say no at this point. Aikman is who I'd take, hands down, everything else being the same.

Stats are a beautiful thing. They really are. But they can't, and often don't, always tell the full story of whats going on out there.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Your analysis is flawed.

You're erroneously assuming that a pressure should be weighted the same as a sack, and that Haley's performance through one season (1995) is necessarily indicative of his performance in Dallas as a whole.

Unless you can provide a more comprehensive set of data and a uniform definition for pressure that can be applied to both players, your argument rests on untenable ground.

Until then, I'll take the player who averages more sacks per game, has almost 20 more sacks in one fewer season, and has yet to manifest chronic health problems -- Demarcus Ware.

Ask anyone that knows. As I told you, even Jerry said Haley was the catalyst to the three Superbowls in the 90s. Defense wins championships. The Cowboys had one real pressure guy in the 90s and that damn sure wasn't Tony Tolbert. It was Haley. Guess who the only player in NFL history has FIVE Superbowl rings? Yep, Haley. Three with the Cowboys and two with the 49ers. Haley's bullrush was a thing of beauty!

 

[Hook'em#11]

Haley and Lett.

Can't forget about Tolbert either.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Ask anyone that knows. As I told you, even Jerry said Haley was the catalyst to the three Superbowls in the 90s. Defense wins championships. The Cowboys had one real pressure guy in the 90s and that damn sure wasn't Tony Tolbert. It was Haley. Guess who the only player in NFL history has FIVE Superbowl rings? Yep, Haley. Three with the Cowboys and two with the 49ers. Haley's bullrush was a thing of beauty!

Haley's five rings are more a product of the star-laden teams on which he played rather than his "bullrush." Rings have absolutely no bearing on any comparison between him and Demarcus Ware.

Haley was the catalyst because he was the missing ingredient. If we were to place Demarcus Ware on those teams, I venture they still win 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

 

[ANTHONYSCOTT]

Which is the better combination of the two?

I'm leaning toward Ratliff and Ware.

But, Haley always came up with the big play when it was crunch time.

How can you even question this? Ware and Ratliff as much as I like them havent won anything yet. Havent proven anything, and dont have the same leadership skill that Haley had. Remember when When trying to deffend the Superbowl title, Dallas went 0 - 2, Haley stepped in the locker room and threw his helmet into the wall and said a few words to Jerry! Not to mention that they won Superbolws together.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Haley's five rings are more a product of the star-laden teams on which he played rather than his "bullrush." Rings have absolutely no bearing on any comparison between him and Demarcus Ware.

Haley was the catalyst because he was the missing ingredient. If we were to place Demarcus Ware on those teams, I venture they still win 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

Haley would have been a first ballot HoFer if he hadn't **** all over the media while he was a player. You're drunk, move along.

 

[viman96]

Lett was so fast off the ball! But I'd have to give on field performance to Ware and Ratliff. I wish Ware had some of Haley's fire off the field to fire up the D though.

 

[JBond]

Ware didn't disappear for four straight games. What were you watching?

Amazing how two people can watch the exact same events and see two totally different things.

In this day and age reality is whatever people want it to be based on their agenda.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Haley would have been a first ballot HoFer if he hadn't **** all over the media while he was a player. You're drunk, move along.

If I'm drunk and still making my point better than you're making your point, what does that say about you and your point?

 

[joseephuss]

How can you even question this? Ware and Ratliff as much as I like them havent won anything yet. Havent proven anything, and dont have the same leadership skill that Haley had. Remember when When trying to deffend the Superbowl title, Dallas went 0 - 2, Haley stepped in the locker room and threw his helmet into the wall and said a few words to Jerry! Not to mention that they won Superbolws together.

Haley also cussed at his coaches and said he wanted to quit after a regular season game against the Packers in 1995. How is that for leadership?

This is one of those questions that can't really be answered. There are way too many variables to consider and many of those don't have anything to do with the four players being evaluated. Different teams, different schemes, different eras and different opponents.

I liked Lett, but you could not trust the guy. He was too fragile of a mind to rely on while in Dallas. There was a reason he was not the starter for most of those years in Dallas. He was best coming off the bench because that eased the pressure on him. He was very talented.

 

[DallasKnight]

Wow... uhmmmm, how about apples and oranges here.

Different era, rules, circumstances, opponents, and teammates. 3-4 and 4-3.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If I'm drunk and still making my point better than you're making your point, what does that say about you and your point?

You're not. :loser:

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Ware and Rafliff and trust me I'm saying this as a HUGE Haley and Big Kat fan!

 

[Chuck 54]

I'd take Haley and Lett every time.

Lett would be a beast at 3-4 DE, and Haley already proved he could bring the consistent pressure every week.

 

[AdamJT13]

The Cowboys had one real pressure guy in the 90s and that **** sure wasn't Tony Tolbert. It was Haley.

As has been mentioned by others, pressures are a subjective stat, so different sources will award them differently. And Switzer's staff (the source for your Haley stats) awarded them generously. Chad Hennings was even credited with 30 "pressures" in a season when he had only 4.5 sacks.

In 1996, they credited Tolbert with 37 pressures to go with his 12 sacks. That's 49 "sacks/pressures," right?

So by your own definition, Tolbert was a better pass-rusher in 1996 than DeMarcus Ware was in his best season.

 

[tyke1doe]

Haley and Lett.