Linebackers, IL and OLB

[big dog cowboy]

May look the same, but this isn’t a quick twitch get up the field scheme like we have seen here for years. That scheme opened up huge running lanes

Much different approach. Thank goodness!

 

[gimmesix]

Can't do that because teams will throw all over you.

You can play around with spacing and alignment but 5 DBs is base.

If you are talking our nickel alignment, then yes, it's a 4-2-5, which is what Parker has said and is what we'll be in most of the time. When we are in a 3-4 front, he's also made it clear that he's talking about a five-man front, not a four-man front with a DB.

Again, he's going to be mixing and matching fronts, so we may see the three-man line out there at times with just one pass rusher, but that's not what he's talking about when he says 3-4.

The way you keep teams from throwing all over you when you have a five-man front out there is by having inside linebackers who can cover. One of the OLBs will be dropping into coverage in the flanks or over the middle as well some of the time instead of sending five after the QB, but we're not going to be asking that player to run downfield with tight ends, receivers and backs, he's going to have some short-range responsibilities.

I think one of the main reasons we went after Winters is because he can cover. Overshown also is a former safety with plus speed. We're also going to be playing a whole lot of zone behind that five-man front. The Eagles played zone 69.1 percent of the time last year.

 

[Jarntt]

Slot - x - 5T - x - 1T - x - 3T - x - Edge

ILB - x - ILB​

That's pretty much the base defense. What we're calling a 3-4 mostly includes a passrushing edge and a slot, not two OLBs.

I think at least one of the DEs will more often be on the inside shoulder as a 4i

 

[beware_d-ware]

It's not just that Barham runs 4.65, he's also 240 lbs. If he was 210 lbs, then a 4.65 would be extremely questionable speed. But at 240, it's NFL average or a smidge above.

 

[beware_d-ware]

WRT Winters, it bothers me a little that San Francisco was willing to let him go.

Obviously Winters wasn't going to start if their defense was healthy. Fred Warner is a 4x All-Pro, Greenlaw's probably a top 20 LB, so no way Winters takes a job from those guys. I can see why the team would want to get something for him, and offer him a chance to start somewhere else.

But at the same time, Warner and Greenlaw both haven't been very healthy the last few seasons. So Winters wouldn't be starting, but there is a decent chance he would end up playing. So why did the Niners dump him basically for nothing, when he'd probably be seeing the field. Maybe they know he's not very good...

 

[stilltheguru]

WRT Winters, it bothers me a little that San Francisco was willing to let him go.

Obviously Winters wasn't going to start if their defense was healthy. Fred Warner is a 4x All-Pro, Greenlaw's probably a top 20 LB, so no way Winters takes a job from those guys. I can see why the team would want to get something for him, and offer him a chance to start somewhere else.

But at the same time, Warner and Greenlaw both haven't been very healthy the last few seasons. So Winters wouldn't be starting, but there is a decent chance he would end up playing. So why did the Niners dump him basically for nothing, when he'd probably be seeing the field. Maybe they know he's not very good...

Maybe they made a mistake. Just maybe front offices aren't perfect. But if you want to worry yourself to death be my guest

 

[fivetwos]

If you are talking our nickel alignment, then yes, it's a 4-2-5, which is what Parker has said and is what we'll be in most of the time. When we are in a 3-4 front, he's also made it clear that he's talking about a five-man front, not a four-man front with a DB.

Again, he's going to be mixing and matching fronts, so we may see the three-man line out there at times with just one pass rusher, but that's not what he's talking about when he says 3-4.

The way you keep teams from throwing all over you when you have a five-man front out there is by having inside linebackers who can cover. One of the OLBs will be dropping into coverage in the flanks or over the middle as well some of the time instead of sending five after the QB, but we're not going to be asking that player to run downfield with tight ends, receivers and backs, he's going to have some short-range responsibilities.

I think one of the main reasons we went after Winters is because he can cover. Overshown also is a former safety with plus speed. We're also going to be playing a whole lot of zone behind that five-man front. The Eagles played zone 69.1 percent of the time last year.

Will the fifth DB be a third safety like Locke, or a third corner? I suppose that depends on the down and distance, as well as the opponent, and it’ll be interchangeable. This being the case, no reason to fret over the LB room. They are deep and flexible at safety. The corners will be fine given the DL upgrade.

I really can’t wait to see these guys play together. I think there’s a good chance they play well together as a unit early on, and can ride that momentum. Unfortunately we won’t see much at all until week one and two….the real preseason.

I don’t want injury as much as anyone, but I don’t like that the starters don’t play at least one series together in two of the three games.

 

[LouBrown]

well, even when parcells ran the 3-4, ware was the designated pass rusher. it was a matter of where he lined up on the line, and his hands not on the ground. often on the outside shoulder of the LT.... and then the other main differences are where the DL lines up and if they go gap or over the OL men, having multiple gap responsibilities.

They're not going to two-gap consistently. You can't do that against modern passing offenses because you won't be able to get to the quarterback.

 

[HungryLion]

Slot - x - 5T - x - 1T - x - 3T - x - Edge

ILB - x - ILB​

That's pretty much the base defense. What we're calling a 3-4 mostly includes a passrushing edge and a slot, not two OLBs.

This is also why the Cowboys wanted Downs so bad and why it made so much sense for them to draft him.

He can play slot and cover receivers while also providing high level run support.

They don’t need 3 off ball LB’s on the field except for obvious rushing situations.

 

[LouBrown]

This is also why the Cowboys wanted Downs so bad and why it made so much sense for them to draft him.

He can play slot and cover receivers while also providing high level run support.

They don’t need 3 off ball LB’s on the field except for obvious rushing situations.

I agree with all of this except for the fact that it's a pretty big assumption that he can play man coverage against NFL receivers.

I don't doubt his ability in zone and being effective in the box, but the defense is going to be really limited if he can't play man.

 

[HungryLion]

I agree with all of this except for the fact that it's a pretty big assumption that he can play man coverage against NFL receivers.

I don't doubt his ability in zone and being effective in the box, but the defense is going to be really limited if he can't play man.

Well with that I agree. I don’t think Downs should be in one on one coverage with receivers often. Not without help from somebody else.

But I also don’t think that’s what Parker is going to ask him to do in coverage.

 

[jblaze2004]

just scatter shooting some thoughts during the slow time

I am still concerned about LB group, although we are much better than last year. with the 3-4, we have two separate groups of LBs with very different responsibilities.

so at weakside OLB spot, we probably get Lawrence and Eze, with their job being to rush the passer and not much drop into coverage. I think we are ok there, as their job is not much different than a DE. mostly rush the passer...

the other side, the strong side OLB, although they will rush, probably have more run stopping responsibilities and sopme drop into coverage mostly covering TEs and covering their zones against slot WRs.... will Eze play on that side as a pass rusher some? Rashan Gary probably deisgnated for that side, but can he drop to cover TEs. he did run a 4.6, but being fast not necessarily the same as covering recievers.....

I heard Braham is one of the ILBs, but he ran a 4.65, which is kind of slow and will he get exposed as a pass defender. the other one is of course overshown, has the side line to side line speed and cover ability. so is he primarily the coverage guy, while braham is designated to rush up the middle and focus on run stopping. and he is rookie no less.

will Dee Winters be considered as one of the ILBs...where will he play mostly

there is williams, laifu, houston, but all pass rusher OLBs. good depth at OLB.

getting brooks would be cherry on top. no more than a 3rd, preferrably a 4th as losing him as FA may translate to a 4th or 3rd at best (for a top contract value).

sounds like too many LBs, but in a 3-4, you need 8-9 at least. and perhaps a low round trade of some if we have too many and can't keep them.

We love fast linebackers but I'll take a slower linebacker who is in the right place at the right time and can play physical and with instincts vs a guy who is just fast and plays with zero instincts aka Kenneth Murray.
40 time isn't everything especially in underwear Olympics.

Barham - 6'3 240lbs - 4.64 40 time

Based on PPF Highest-graded linebackers from the 2025 NFL season:
(I stopped after Cedric Gray).
1st Rank - Fred Warner - 6'3 230lbs - 4.64 40 time
2nd Rank - Jack Campbell - 6'5 246lbs - 4.65 40 time
3rd Rank - Devin Lloyd - 6'3 235lbs - 4.66 40 time
5th Rank - Zack Baun - 6'3 225lbs - 4.65 40 time
6th Rank - Demario Davis - 6'2 248lbs - 4.61 40 time
8th Rank - Cedric Gray - 6'2 234lbs - 4.64 40 time

 

[aikemirv]

4.65 40 speed...not very fast. not side line to side line type

a 4.5 and a 4.6 40 is a yard difference over 40 yards. 20 yards, 1/2 yard. Instincts and quickness are more important than that 1/2 yard!

 

[LouBrown]

If you are talking our nickel alignment, then yes, it's a 4-2-5, which is what Parker has said and is what we'll be in most of the time. When we are in a 3-4 front, he's also made it clear that he's talking about a five-man front, not a four-man front with a DB.

Again, he's going to be mixing and matching fronts, so we may see the three-man line out there at times with just one pass rusher, but that's not what he's talking about when he says 3-4.

The way you keep teams from throwing all over you when you have a five-man front out there is by having inside linebackers who can cover. One of the OLBs will be dropping into coverage in the flanks or over the middle as well some of the time instead of sending five after the QB, but we're not going to be asking that player to run downfield with tight ends, receivers and backs, he's going to have some short-range responsibilities.

I think one of the main reasons we went after Winters is because he can cover. Overshown also is a former safety with plus speed. We're also going to be playing a whole lot of zone behind that five-man front. The Eagles played zone 69.1 percent of the time last year.

Yea so the "traditional" 3-4 is a subpackage that we'll see on like a dozen snaps a game. That's my point. Nickel is base.

The way you stop teams from throwing with a 5-man front - regardless of personnel - is man coverage and a passrush. Dallas doesn't have the bodies to do either one of those things well.

 

[Cowboyny]

WRT Winters, it bothers me a little that San Francisco was willing to let him go.

Obviously Winters wasn't going to start if their defense was healthy. Fred Warner is a 4x All-Pro, Greenlaw's probably a top 20 LB, so no way Winters takes a job from those guys. I can see why the team would want to get something for him, and offer him a chance to start somewhere else.

But at the same time, Warner and Greenlaw both haven't been very healthy the last few seasons. So Winters wouldn't be starting, but there is a decent chance he would end up playing. So why did the Niners dump him basically for nothing, when he'd probably be seeing the field. Maybe they know he's not very good...

He is playing on his last yr of his deal, probably wanted to get something now rather wait another season.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If the all pros have the same speed I don't care. Obviously it's fast enough

Teams will try to match him.gainst TEs and take.advantage.

He has to be very smart player and for sure a good tackler.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They're not going to two-gap consistently. You can't do that against modern passing offenses because you won't be able to get to the quarterback.

Agreed. Two gap is often wait and react and puts defense on their heels.

One gap is effective but needs right scheme and alignments

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We love fast linebackers but I'll take a slower linebacker who is in the right place at the right time and can play physical and with instincts vs a guy who is just fast and plays with zero instincts aka Kenneth Murray.
40 time isn't everything especially in underwear Olympics.

Barham - 6'3 240lbs - 4.64 40 time

Based on PPF Highest-graded linebackers from the 2025 NFL season:
(I stopped after Cedric Gray).
1st Rank - Fred Warner - 6'3 230lbs - 4.64 40 time
2nd Rank - Jack Campbell - 6'5 246lbs - 4.65 40 time
3rd Rank - Devin Lloyd - 6'3 235lbs - 4.66 40 time
5th Rank - Zack Baun - 6'3 225lbs - 4.65 40 time
6th Rank - Demario Davis - 6'2 248lbs - 4.61 40 time
8th Rank - Cedric Gray - 6'2 234lbs - 4.64 40 time

Agreed. Instincts are key.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

a 4.5 and a 4.6 40 is a yard difference over 40 yards. 20 yards, 1/2 yard. Instincts and quickness are more important than that 1/2 yard!

Although 40 yard is an indicator, I put more credence to 3 cone and other drills because it takes into effect change of direction and reaction.

With that said, a yard in NFL is difference between a completion and not a completion and windows are about 1/2 yard.

 

[DuncanIso]

We need to stop having a rigid definition of 3-4 - that is not what this defense is going to be.

They're almost always going to be in a 4-front. Downs - or whoever is in the slot - is going to have a lot of LB responsibilities in 7- or 8-man boxes.

Yup.

Base 3-4 struggles vs RPO (remember RG3?) and Slot.

Edge cant cover speedy WRs.

Nice vs run though.