Lions announce Suh won't be tagged

[ABQCOWBOY]

Except it was not only an interest free loan but it paid you cash back and your job gave you an 8% raise every year

Unless the Market crashes and you are no longer getting an 8% raise or you lose your job all together. Then what? There is no such thing as forever. You have to manage your cap.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's not that complicated. You can and should restructure most of your large contracts if you need to fill holes. If you are going to keep them that year anyways it's just paying them earlier in a lump sum. It allows maximum flexibility and adds very little risk. The problem is making bad personnel decisions, not the accounting method used to manipulate the cap rules.

If you consistently restructure contracts and prorate signing bonuses the bill will never come due, especially when the cap goes up dramatically. There are always contracts to rework and old large contracts are replaced with new medium sized ones. Just keep drafting well and get rid of guys a year early instead of a year late.

I don't have a problem with restructuring, if it makes sense. Not every deal should be restructured though.

 

[AzorAhai]

I don't have a problem with restructuring, if it makes sense. Not every deal should be restructured though.

You are correct. Every deal shouldn't be restructured. You have to be smart and really time thay players decline with how you push money back. The issue I have is with the never restructure crowd and there are quite a few. If used the right way it is a competitive advantage.

 

[Nightman]

No. That's not necessarily true IMO. Cap has to be managed. The Commanders did that for years. Look where they are now. We had to get rid of Ware and Hatcher last year because of cap implications. How much difference would either one of those players made last season in Green Bay? I don't agree with that.

That is just your version of the story. Dallas didn't restructure Carr or Witten, they took the whole 8m hit on Ware and still finished 3m+ under the cap. They could have signed Peppers or Allen last year if those guys even wanted to come here. Ware was worn down and it showed again last year with no sacks after Week 9. Hatcher was good but very expensive. Dallas got similar production from Mincey. DLaw and Crawford for pennies on the dollar.

The cap can be manipulated very easily and even if you get into 'trouble' it is very easy to get out. You talk of Washington but they had 36m in cap penalties are still active. I just don't see this horrible end game everyone speaks of. The dead money is just a cost of doing business this way. If you clear 30m+ in cap room with restructures then 12m+ in dead money is fine, it's still a net win.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That is just your version of the story. Dallas didn't restructure Carr or Witten, they took the whole 8m hit on Ware and still finished 3m+ under the cap. They could have signed Peppers or Allen last year if those guys even wanted to come here. Ware was worn down and it showed again last year with no sacks after Week 9. Hatcher was good but very expensive. Dallas got similar production from Mincey. DLaw and Crawford for pennies on the dollar.

The cap can be manipulated very easily and even if you get into 'trouble' it is very easy to get out. You talk of Washington but they had 36m in cap penalties are still active. I just don't see this horrible end game everyone speaks of. The dead money is just a cost of doing business this way. If you clear 30m+ in cap room with restructures then 12m+ in dead money is fine, it's still a net win.

Fair enough. I don't agree with you but that's why it's great to have a message board to discuss such things.

 

[Nightman]

Fair enough. I don't agree with you but that's why it's great to have a message board to discuss such things.

I just get confused when people say our mismanagement of the cap made us cut Ware and Hatcher and that is why we didn't get past GB. But in their next breath they are against restructuring deals to get more cap space to sign better players. It is the not the accounting method that got the team stuck in 8-8 limbo. It was the poor drafts, the constant coaching changes and some untimely injuries to key vets(Austin, Spencer,Ratliff) that were to blame.

If Dallas can get 34m under the cap and not cut one single person, to me that is a good thing. They could make a legitimate run at Suh, who would instantly change the defense. If they can't get Suh they can at least get a DE like Hardy that will help the secondary with his relentless pressure. Worst case they sign some bargain DL guys and roll over any excess.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I just get confused when people say our mismanagement of the cap made us cut Ware and Hatcher and that is why we didn't get past GB. But in their next breath they are against restructuring deals to get more cap space to sign better players. It is the not the accounting method that got the team stuck in 8-8 limbo. It was the poor drafts, the constant coaching changes and some untimely injuries to key vets(Austin, Spencer,Ratliff) that were to blame.

If Dallas can get 34m under the cap and not cut one single person, to me that is a good thing. They could make a legitimate run at Suh, who would instantly change the defense. If they can't get Suh they can at least get a DE like Hardy that will help the secondary with his relentless pressure. Worst case they sign some bargain DL guys and roll over any excess.

For the record, I do believe that our Cap Management drove the decision to release, both Hatcher and Ware. You can't just consider those players in a single year. I think the club knew that we had multiple players coming up for renewal in the near future. I believe this absolutely drove the decisions. If we had signed Hatcher and Ware, what kind of room would we have now to sign Dez, Murray and all the rest?

We lost to Green Bay because we could not pressure AR. I think it's pretty evident that this was the case. As I said earlier, it doesn't always make sense to restructure. I am not a big fan of restructuring Tony so that we can simply sign what we currently have. I don't believe that our lack of pass rush on the Defensive side of the ball will win us a Championship. We have to add Defensive talent. We have 2 to 3 years to realistically win a championship IMO.

I love Suh and I think he is a player you don't see hit FA very often. However, I don't believe we can get him and, I actually like the talent we currently have at DT. I think Hardy would be cheaper and much more realistic.

I am in favor of trying to win now but, I am not in favor of blowing out our Cap for a short term run and having to live with another 3 years of cap hell if we don't win a Championship. We have a nice core of players right now and I believe we are better off not sacrificing our cap long term.

We need a player that can force Offenses to double up. That, IMO, is the best way to make our current players most successful on the Defensive side of the ball. That's how I see this.

 

[Nightman]

I am in favor of trying to win now but, I am not in favor of blowing out our Cap for a short term run and having to live with another 3 years of cap hell if we don't win a Championship. We have a nice core of players right now and I believe we are better off not sacrificing our cap long term.

We need a player that can force Offenses to double up. That, IMO, is the best way to make our current players most successful on the Defensive side of the ball. That's how I see this.

I can dig it, I just don't see how we can add that type of player without opening the piggy bank. At 27 it's hard to get an impact player in the draft. Suhs and Hardys don't come around often. The odds that they both are FAs right when we need them the most is almost unbelievable. It's just money and Jerry has plenty.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I just get confused when people say our mismanagement of the cap made us cut Ware and Hatcher and that is why we didn't get past GB.

Wait, what? Who said that that?