lmao @ Delusional Art

[HipHop]

Is this guy a joke or what?

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dan Snyder proved once again this week just how good he is as our owner. Coles was a productive, popular player for our football team. We invested a lot of money into him. The move was a GOOD move. Reasonably, the trade we made for Moss was a BAD trade. We all know this.

There were positive aspects, to be sure. But, this was not a trade of relative equals. It was not a trade we received good value back for. We took a massive hit. We took a lessening in player production and ability. And we did this because Snyder's football people told him it needed to be done.

To accomplish what THEY need to accomplish, Coles couldn't be part of the equation once he asked not to be. Snyder's football people went to him and explained that they would either wish to release him or receive SOME value in return, causing us to swallow a massive cap hit, and Snyder didn't do what an owner could reasonably have done.

He didn't say, "Tough."

He could have. He could have told his football people they were crazy. That he didn't want to eat an additional $6 million against the cap because he didn't believe the philosophy Gibbs was bringing him.

He MAY have said, "I hope you know what you're doing and this had better work." But, he listened to his football people and allowed them to do what they wished. Even if what they wished, on paper, isn't a move most would make if JUST looking at the parameters of the deals involved.

Snyder didn't have an ego that indicated since he helped bring Coles in, this staff had to live with his player. He didn't undermine the staff. Gibbs said to Coles, "You can go," and Coles got to go. Gibbs is in charge. The owner is enabling that.

And, this trade is further evidence of Snyder's emergence as a very fine owner.

If the move fails and Moss sucks, certainly people here will scream that Cerrato is an idiot and Snyder is a fool, and they will continue to miss just how good a job Snyder does in deferring to his football people for these types of decisions. If the decision fails, it's on his football people.

He's doing what they tell him they need to do to win.

If he has the right guys to win, he'll be a reason why, because of how he gives his people the ability to craft their own plan.

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[BrAinPaiNt]

If you know art well enough...then you know that him admitting it was a bad mistake is a HUGE step for him.

And in many ways he makes valid points.

Sure there is homerism in that post, but at the same time it is a huge leap for art...and for the most part I agree with his takes on the issue.

However I will say that I do not see it as the emergence of Snyder becoming a fine owner, it just means to me that he is trying to take the step in the right direction.

I think snyder knows if he blows it with Joe Gibbs, then he shoots himself in the foot.

He showed before with Marty that he was unwilling to let the coach have total say so they fired him, he does not want to make the mistake of Firing the legend of the Commanders name Joe Gibbs....it would only further show his "Short" commings as an impatient owner and furthermore who could he bring in to upstage Joe in the skins faithful minds.

 

[Chicago]

However I will say that I do not see it as the emergence of Snyder becoming a fine owner, it just means to me that he is trying to take the step in the right direction.

I think snyder knows if he blows it with Joe Gibbs, then he shoots himself in the foot.

I think this horrible owner thing right now is a cliche. Snyder startet very young as an owner and made eyery rookie mistake you can make. But he is learning, letting the football people do the job. He now has to pay for his overspending in the past. But the nucleus of the team is there. The offense has to step up. Fix the O-line and Portis will run wild, Ramsey will be better than average and the RECs will separate from the secondary. 9 wins in 2005 and half of Washington will dancing in the streets.

 

[Avery]

I think Art is actually pretty well on with those post. Snyder made the right move by taking the cap hit this season and getting something in return. Sure it takes away a player or two they could grab in FA, but they need wideouts and Moss is a solid one. Probably shorter than they would like but a guy who will be able to produce for them. I actually think Moss is better than Coles to be honest with you.

 

[adbutcher]

If you know art well enough...then you know that him admitting it was a bad mistake is a HUGE step for him.

And in many ways he makes valid points.

Sure there is homerism in that post, but at the same time it is a huge leap for art...and for the most part I agree with his takes on the issue.

However I will say that I do not see it as the emergence of Snyder becoming a fine owner, it just means to me that he is trying to take the step in the right direction.

I think snyder knows if he blows it with Joe Gibbs, then he shoots himself in the foot.

He showed before with Marty that he was unwilling to let the coach have total say so they fired him, he does not want to make the mistake of Firing the legend of the Commanders name Joe Gibbs....it would only further show his "Short" commings as an impatient owner and furthermore who could he bring in to upstage Joe in the skins faithful minds.

Ditto.

:skins: :skins: :skins: :skins: :skins: :skins:

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

The skins made the right move.......the lesser of the two evils.......If snyder fires gibbs the D.C. sniper may re-appear

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The skins made the right move.......the lesser of the two evils.......If snyder fires gibbs the D.C. sniper may re-appear

They were limited to 3 moves...keep Coles, Trade him or release him.

After the story came out they were in a double edge sword situation...if they kept him then gibbs is a hypocrite, if they let him go for nothing they are stupid...and if they trade him for a lesser player they are screwed as well.

Yet still with all of that I can not for one instance call Dan Snyder a Great or good owner, nor could I gasp in disbelief later in that thread with people actually having the nerve to compare Bug Eyed Vinny with the front office personel people in NE or Philly and say he was just as good. lmao!!!

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

Great?.....eh.....naaaa.......Willing to do anything in order to make his team win, sometimes even trying so hard that he hurts his team without realizing it.......More likely

gIbbs' is fixin' danny boy up........Only mistake last year was Brunell....then again what other option was put there....Bledsoe kinda....Garcia, YIKES!!!!

 

[Hostile]

Great?.....eh.....naaaa.......Willing to do anything in order to make his team win, sometimes even trying so hard that he hurts his team without realizing it.......More likely

gIbbs' is fixin' danny boy up........Only mistake last year was Brunell....then again what other option was put there....Bledsoe kinda....Garcia, YIKES!!!!

Kerry Coleman.

 

[HipHop]

Snyder is a terrible owner.

You can't even argue with his track record.

Does he spend money? Sure....and thats admirable.

But spending money freely does not a good owner make.

And while he does spend money, its on big name free agents as opposed to home grown Commander talent.

Meanwhile, he has done nothing but piss on fans. He is a terrible owner.

And that was my point in regards to this thread. Art trying to claim Snyder is a good owner based on this move.

First of all..... lets look at this move....

The foreskins trade their most talented wide receiver despite the rich contract he just received. They are required to eat his bonus, acquire a lesser talent, and will in turn have to release or further restructure more contracts just to be able to sign draft picks.

And in the meantime, Smoot is leaving a gaping hole in the secondary.

Why did all of this happen?

Because a clueless Joe Gibbs, in further proving that the game has passed him by, tells players that if they want to leave, the team will accomodate.

***??????

You can't do that in todays NFL.

If Snyder had a clue, he would have told Gibbs, "No". I'm sure every other owner and GM in the league would have.

Coles was a hard worker, and he even went so far as to say that if he played in Washington next season, he would bust his tail and it wouldn't affect his play at all.

But the foreskins, following a clueless Joe Gibbs lead, let a guy with ZERO leverage leave on account of him "wanting" to.

It's the dumbest situation immaginable. The foreskins lost on all accounts, no matter how much their fans try and sugar coat the situation.

And both Joe Gibbs and Dan Snyder prove once again that they belong in another business.

 

[trickblue]

I'll weigh in on this...

Snydely is his own worst enemy... and he confirmed it again...

Coles is a pro enough to have played/excelled within the current system... he is under contract making more than any of us will ever know...

"Shut-up and Play" would have been my mantra as an owner... I realize Coles didn't like the short passing game (mainly because it gets you plastered by Roy and the pretenders)... but he had 90+ catches last year... most WR's complain they don't get enough catches...

Personally I think both sides handled the situation incorrectly... my father always taught me to appreciate my job and keep your mouth closed and perform...

Coles is no cancer... but 'skins management took his bluff... he won... they lost...

 

[HipHop]

I'll weigh in on this...

Snydely is his own worst enemy... and he confirmed it again...

Coles is a pro enough to have played/excelled within the current system... he is under contract making more than any of us will ever know...

"Shut-up and Play" would have been my mantra as an owner... I realize Coles didn't like the short passing game (mainly because it gets you plastered by Roy and the pretenders)... but he had 90+ catches last year... most WR's complain they don't get enough catches...

Personally I think both sides handled the situation incorrectly... my father always taught me to appreciate my job and keep your mouth closed and perform...

Coles is no cancer... but 'skins management took his bluff... he won... they lost...

Exactly.

And Gibbs showed how ignorant he is to the now very prominant business side of the NFL.

This is great for me as a Cowboys fan....seeing the foreskins continue to struggle....even with their most respected hero at the helm.

Gibbs is doing nothing but tarnish his record. The longer he stays in the NFL, the more consideration the Hall of Fame committee is going to give to removing his bust from Canton.

 

[Hostile]

JMO

Dan Snyder is not a bad owner. He clearly wants to win and he loves his team. To me a bad owner is Bill Bidwell of the Cardinals. He doesn't care if his team wins it all. He's never tried new tactics to provide his fans a winner or to even give his fanbase a team to relate to. Football is easily the most popular sport in America. In Phoenix and the suburbs it isn't the best game in town.

The Diamondbacks are the worst team in baseball right now. I bet you anything they out sell the Cardinals in merchandise in Phoenix. Bidwell was told that people here won't relate to the Cardinals as a mascot. He didn't care. He figured they just wanted football. Well, we did, Dallas Cowboys football for crying out loud.

The Winnepeg Jets became the Phoenix Coyotes and with some slick marketing they sell here. The Suns sell here. The Cardinals never will unless they win it all and as long as Bidwell is alive that won't happen. He got his new stadium and in 5 years when it is not sold out he will threaten to move the team and my fellow Arizonans will again join me in wishing he would do it.

Poetic justice that the rams won when they moved to St. Louis. You'd be amazed how many people in this state smiled about that irony.

This year Bidwell is promising a new look Cardinal. Yippee. Good move Billy. [/sarcasm off]

Snyder is going about it wrong, but not for the wrong reasons. He cares. I just don't think he gets it yet. Everybody has to learn and he'll either figure that out or he won't. Committment to trying is important. If he's as smart as his fortune would indicate then at some point he is going to have to listen to the negative voices instead of the just the "yes" men (read Vinny Cerrato).

This trade of Coles for Moss is not a good thing for the Skins, but as some pointed out he did not have much choice. The turmoil that would cause a player to want to leave that badly, that is partly his fault, and he bears some burden of responsibility there.

Is it his responsibility to make the players happy? No, I am not saying that. But he is responsible for doing his best to try and make that happen. The amount of turmoil that surrounds that team lately makes that virtually impossible. In truth they'd almost be better off cutting bait and starting over from scratch. The only problem is that for 2 years they've traded away draft picks for players like Coles and there is not enough to build upon as far as youth.

In my opinion things like this creep into the backs of players minds and it starts to dampen their enthusiasm for the direction of the team. When you add things like Arrington's contract squabbles it really makes things worse. Whose side do you think a player is going to be on? The owner's or a teammate's? Not a doubt in my mind that there are players on the Skins unhappy and they are whispering to each other out of the media earshot, and soon to the media even more than recently. You really can't help it. When you feel a buddy is wronged it hurts part of you too.

I still say Snyder's worst mistake by far is the report today about taking season tickets away from the Washington Post. They have been purchasing those season tickets since the 1950's and they are going to feel that they deserve better. The fans who end up with those season tickets are going to love it until the Washington media turns up the heat and trust me, it is going to hit full boil there now. Same reason as Coles feeling for Arrington. You do not mess with a brotherhood, and the print media is a brotherhood. Especially one that has the power to sway public opinion against you.

It's going to be subtle at first. Snyder is going to feel that he sent a message. The average fan knows nothing about his little war with the Post. They don't care. The average fan also is going to read the articles and little by little the fingers will point. The big eruption is goign to be when the players no longer fear the repurcussions and will do anyting to get out. That will include taking their gripes right to the media at the Post who will be more than willing to give these gripes a voice.

Good luck with the current strategy of luring Free Agent talent because when they see the chaos they aren't coming. His only way out of this mess is to create some kind of way for 264 tickets to magically appear back on Post desks or give them some kind of amazing luxury box all their own. Bigger than any luxury box anywhere. In other words he's going to have to open his checkbook in a way that will hurt him.

He couldn't stand the negative criticism before? Buckle up Danny, it's going to turn your hair gray and your stomach sour. You ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

JokerJokerDeuce, Your bias against Gibbs is strong because you are a cowboys fan.......Unfortuantely your opinion is unlogical ........Why you say?, there's WAY to many reasons........If I continue this will be another useless 7 page fight about how it is impossible for people to learn and change.........Gibbs did what he had to do.......Snyder isn't stupid enough to tell Gibbs what to do.......How about we just let the people PAID to do there jobs , do them and judge when they're done.......He could be setting them up for a miricle turn around....who knows.....

Look at the rams, pats, panthers, chargers, & your own boys 2 seasons ago......At any time a team can turn it around......

 

[flaco2004]

you are an idiot. Quit lying.

 

[trickblue]

maybe it is just me... but delusional=art... is this not an oxymoron?

 

[AceofSpades]

So Snyder makes one clear cut decision and thats evidence he is a GREAT owner?

I don't understand. They must have low standards.

 

[Hostile]

maybe it is just me... but delusional=art... is this not an oxymoron?

Sumpin lak at.

 

[Tio]

JokerJokerDeuce, Your bias against Gibbs is strong because you are a cowboys fan.......Unfortuantely your opinion is unlogical ........Why you say?, there's WAY to many reasons........If I continue this will be another useless 7 page fight about how it is impossible for people to learn and change..........

Translation=

I have nothing...

 

[HipHop]

JokerJokerDeuce, Your bias against Gibbs is strong because you are a cowboys fan.......Unfortuantely your opinion is unlogical ........Why you say?, there's WAY to many reasons........If I continue this will be another useless 7 page fight about how it is impossible for people to learn and change.........Gibbs did what he had to do.......Snyder isn't stupid enough to tell Gibbs what to do.......How about we just let the people PAID to do there jobs , do them and judge when they're done.......He could be setting them up for a miricle turn around....who knows.....

Look at the rams, pats, panthers, chargers, & your own boys 2 seasons ago......At any time a team can turn it around......

Actually, I'm not terribly biased against Joe Gibbs. Sure, its hard to like a coach or player of your hated rival, but I've always considered Gibbs a class guy.

That doesn't absolve the guy from blame and fair criticism. I stated when it was first announced that it was a mistake for him to come back. And he's done nothing to prove otherwise.

The game has passed him by....both how its played on the field, and the business aspects.

And having the moron as his boss only makes him look worse.

But since you want to wait and see if he causes a miracle turn around by letting the likes of Pierce and Smoot go, trading his best receiver for a lesser talent, and crippling his teams free agency ability...... are you going to admit that he's clueless and the game has long passed him by when you have another 5-11, 7-9 season?