Long term thinking in a short term game

[morat1959]

I have no idea what you’re talking about with “hand picked fantasy stats”

I simply asked you to specifically name any player who we could get that you think would be better than Dak

Your response was “A LOT”

It would be easy to argue that you’re the one playing fantasy football.

This is not Madden. Yiu can’t just “create a player” or trade 10 spare players for 1 good one. You can’t just say “A LOT” and expect that to stand unless you really don’t have any idea and are just making noise.

Draft
Name a QB we could draft at #17 that would be better than Dak.

I’ll even help you out with some actual football players who’a jersey doesn’t say “A LOT” on the back. These are real life actual QB’s.

Herbert

• Will go to the Chargers at #6 at the absolute latest
• If we’re trading up to #6 to get Herbert, is that your guy? It would take our #17 and two future 1sts to get him. You sure he’s the guy?
• How long you think it would be before he could take us to the playoffs
• Are you willing to risk the entire 2020 season on the third beat QB in the draft?

Tua

• Will go #5 at the latest and the Commanders may be shopping #2 and the Dolphins might move from #5 to #2 to get him
• It would cost our 1st (#17), our 2nd (#52), our 3rd (#82) and next years 3rd rounder. And that’s assuming they would even take thirds and not demand #17 and next years first rounder instead
• He may take a redshirt season next year as he continue to rehab so I guess we’re starting Cooper Rush or something random rent-a-QB free agent who is willing to take a one year deal. Don’t think bus driver. Think driving range ball-picker-upper driver.

Burrow

• Get ready to pay! This makes the Herschel Walker deal look like an absolute bargain
• This years first round
• This years third round
• Our 1st round pick in 2021
• Our 1st round pick in 2022

“A LOT” Draftees!

• This is a handful of guys who might be around at #17. You are willing to spend a first here right?
• Eason, Love, Fromm. Total crap shoot if any of them will be any better than Dak and even worse odds that they would be able to win in their rookie season. They’re the number 4, 5 and 6 QB in their own draft class for a reason

Free Agents?

Brady? - He’ll be 43 in training camp. He had his worst season in years. He’s falling over the edge of the cliff. Better draft a QB in the first or second round and pray the guy is any good

Brees? - He’ll be 42 come playoff time. He’s probably got at least one good year left. He’s not going anywhere though. He and the city of New Orleans said their marriage vows after Katrina. He will never leave and they will never want him to go. No player in the league is more tied to their city, not just team, than Brees and NO. They’ll let Bridgewater walk and try to see if Taysom Hill An be their future QB1. He’s a RFA.

“A LOT” free agent QB’s

Bridgewater - bus driver, worse than Dak. will get 20m for being average his entire career

Tannehill - Will resign in Tennessee. Will also get 30m+. No better than Dak. Talk about someone who has proved nothing and is about to cash in and this guy is first in line. Journeyman QB who had one good half season in his career.

JameisWinston - Hahahaha - he sucks. Any team that starts him will fail.

Phillip Rivers - 39 come playoff time - showed he’s had it in 2019. Chargers let him walk and didn’t even attempt to wrangle a bad trade for him. He will also get paid close to 30m

you’re welcome

I hope this is not suppose to impress. Back to original point, this is only a handful of the MANY who could come in and replace Dak. Keep doing your research and come up with about 15-20 more names. Then I’ll be impressed. Just for the record, where did you play, coach or scout?

 

[cern]

Then you’d be assuming we couldn’t move up if interested?

Or were satisfied with who we had and or not a priority.

Moving up requires two parties. Far easier said than done.

 

[Kwyn]

I hope this is not suppose to impress. Back to original point, this is only a handful of the MANY who could come in and replace Dak. Keep doing your research and come up with about 15-20 more names. Then I’ll be impressed. Just for the record, where did you play, coach or scout?

Hahahah

You just tear stuff down. Dak in this case, and offer nothing substantive to support your position. you can claim he’s the worst QB in team history. I don’t care one bit. Just make an argument. Make a point for crying out loud.

It’s just total laziness

You might as well just type “nuh uh” and then cut and past that as a response to every post that goes up in the Fan Zone.

Dak Hater's Myth: We Can't Build Around a QB Market Value
—— morat1959 “ Nuh Uh”

NFL: *** Important NFL Dates for 2020 ***
—— morat1959 “ Nuh Uh”

Keith O Quinn rehired as director of advance scouting
—— morat1959 “ Nuh Uh”

 

[DandyDon52]

Does anyone remember the '85 Bears? With their stout defense and their strong running game.

The Cowboys are stuck on finding their new set of triplets and that's holding them back, IMO. Paying too much attention to the offensive side of the ball. Its like Parcells said, "you can't dial 1-800- quarterback and get a quarterback." He said that because, if you don't have that super stud QB then your best option is to build up on the defensive side of the ball. In the salary cap era you can't let one player or one position hold this team hostage. Especially if he is not a super stud future hall of famer.

If we didn't re-sign Dak we could go after players like SS Justin Simmons, DT Leonard Williams, or DT Micheal Brockers. Not to mention re-signing some of our own like B.Jones, R.Quinn, and M.Collins. If we build a defense to go along with Zeke, Pollard and this offensive line all we would need is a bus driver at QB. Just saying.

Bill Parcells is one of the all time greats for a reason.

this is the best option , if they dont want to sign dak, or cant get a deal done, but it means letting dak just walk,.
I dont think jones boys are smart enough to do this.
Jerry likes offense and he doesnt want a bus driver qb.

 

[DandyDon52]

The Cowboys are their own worst enemy. They stupidly inflate their own players value with reckless public commentary and completely lack any semblance of transition planning from a very good player by trying to obtain some exit value for that player via a trade.

The Cowboys often pay good players top talent contracts and continuously find themselves with less than starting caliber talent on the depth chart behind them. The top heavy roster is starting to show signs of becoming a problem and the strategy remains the same.

Coach offers a good divergence from the just pay them strategy. Franchise Dak, bring in a quality FA QB who will do a 1 yr deal and draft or sign a developmental QB. Players that want things their way should only be allowed to get their way elsewhere. Zeke and Lawrence are two good examples of players that were overpaid and wanted to do things according their plan. That, so far, has not worked out great for the Cowboys considering what it has cost them.

Desperate teams with a lot of cap space make some highly speculative decisions. Maybe the Cowboys can find another Minnesota out there to help them move a player and get some significant draft capital in exchange.

jones boys always wait too late to try and trade a player, they never get much out of any cowboy players in trades.
Zeke and Lawrence were over paid, so now they cant be traded , they are stuck with them.
Since the cowboys did not resign dak early, they should have been looking for a qb to either draft or get in FA. Just in case
there are issues signing dak, but they didnt do that.

 

[shabazz]

Yes and paying this one seems to be a bit of a stumbling block for them. I still think there are some in that FO not on board with him as the long term QB.

By forum standards, its now safe to assume that because the FO has its doubts about the value of Rayne Dakota, that they can now be labeled as deep seeded Haters as some of us are.

Wow, that feigned outage was exhilarating!. Never felt that before. The view is tremendous while perched on this Ivory Tower

 

[fivetwos]

The Cowboys are their own worst enemy. They stupidly inflate their own players value with reckless public commentary and completely lack any semblance of transition planning from a very good player by trying to obtain some exit value for that player via a trade.

The Cowboys often pay good players top talent contracts and continuously find themselves with less than starting caliber talent on the depth chart behind them. The top heavy roster is starting to show signs of becoming a problem and the strategy remains the same.

Coach offers a good divergence from the just pay them strategy. Franchise Dak, bring in a quality FA QB who will do a 1 yr deal and draft or sign a developmental QB. Players that want things their way should only be allowed to get their way elsewhere. Zeke and Lawrence are two good examples of players that were overpaid and wanted to do things according their plan. That, so far, has not worked out great for the Cowboys considering what it has cost them.

Desperate teams with a lot of cap space make some highly speculative decisions. Maybe the Cowboys can find another Minnesota out there to help them move a player and get some significant draft capital in exchange.

Kinda lost me toward the end there, but the first two paragraphs are as well put on that subject as Ive seen anyone do.

A big part of that is they want to tell themselves that they draft well.

The only thing good about the recent drafts is they arent as pathetic as they were when Jerry was really peaking... around 2000 or so.

 

[Diehardblues]

Moving up requires two parties. Far easier said than done.

We moved up fairly easily to select Clairborne. Just saying.

 

[CouchCoach]

We moved up fairly easily to select Clairborne. Just saying.

Part of that is the competition for the player. A CB isn't going to get the action a QB will and one that just had the season Burrow had is what most were thinking was going to happen with Lawrence in this next draft. No one saw Burrow coming; however, buyer beware because he's coming from what many think is the greatest offense in collegiate history. I can tell you that I've never seen one like it.

I was watching College Gameday and Kirk Herbstriet said it is unusual that one team would have more than one of the highest rated QB, OL and WR corps and LSU is the first he's ever seen have all 3 and then have the best secondary. They faced the toughest schedule in college football history beating 7 top 10 teams.

They overvalued Claiborne and Spears because they didn't weigh the D they were coming from and the reason so many inflate Bama D players and they don't live up to draft position. This year the top rated DE and CB, Young and Akudah, are on the same D, think that doesn't help both?

I don't know if Burrow doesn't want to play for CIN or not but imagine going from where he's been with those coaches and players to CIN? There's no way he will live up to the prebilling he's getting.

If the big 3 QB's were available at the Cowboys draft position, even with the risk at QB, I would take any of them over paying Prescott long term because this is going to be his first year in this offense, just like it would be theirs. I like the size of Burrow and Herbert over Prescott and the passing skills of all 3 better; however, not to trade up and take the additional risk of giving up badly needed draft picks. The Cowboys are a team that definitely benefits from the higher the pick, the less the risk.

 

[Diehardblues]

Part of that is the competition for the player. A CB isn't going to get the action a QB will and one that just had the season Burrow had is what most were thinking was going to happen with Lawrence in this next draft. No one saw Burrow coming; however, buyer beware because he's coming from what many think is the greatest offense in collegiate history. I can tell you that I've never seen one like it.

I was watching College Gameday and Kirk Herbstriet said it is unusual that one team would have more than one of the highest rated QB, OL and WR corps and LSU is the first he's ever seen have all 3 and then have the best secondary. They faced the toughest schedule in college football history beating 7 top 10 teams.

They overvalued Claiborne and Spears because they didn't weigh the D they were coming from and the reason so many inflate Bama D players and they don't live up to draft position. This year the top rated DE and CB, Young and Akudah, are on the same D, think that doesn't help both?

I don't know if Burrow doesn't want to play for CIN or not but imagine going from where he's been with those coaches and players to CIN? There's no way he will live up to the prebilling he's getting.

If the big 3 QB's were available at the Cowboys draft position, even with the risk at QB, I would take any of them over paying Prescott long term because this is going to be his first year in this offense, just like it would be theirs. I like the size of Burrow and Herbert over Prescott and the passing skills of all 3 better; however, not to trade up and take the additional risk of giving up badly needed draft picks. The Cowboys are a team that definitely benefits from the higher the pick, the less the risk.

It’s a great example how much value franchises place on the QB position . And I’m right there with them.

No doubt Burrows had a strong supporting cast and I can agree with much of Herbstreet message. But Burrow not only made all of the throws , he made the heady decisions as well. Not sure LSU goes as far without him.

Drafting a QB is always a risk and so many factors can lead to a bust including going to a bad team which so many of these top QB picks go to and why I think so many bust. It’s a very difficult transition.

And why I strongly believe he’d make a much bigger impact coming in this offense than in Cincinnati or other bottom dwellers.

I think I like him even more than Trevor who has all of that supporting cast as well. But that’s all part of the draft. You can only measure by their performance at that level. And Burrow competed in strongest conference against some of the best defenses and toughest schedules in recent memory.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’d give the Bengals whatever they wanted. We could sign everyone else if we had a QB in a Rookie contract again.

I truly believe a more prolific passer instantly upgrades our offense which would aide the defense as well if we begin dominating TOP again.

Yes, we’d lose some draft picks but the way we’ve wasted our top picks in recent years not really giving up as much as we’d potentially gain.

Talk about providing a fresh start and renewed optimism for our fan base. OMG. And a new HC bringing in much experience with Elite talented QB’s. Who couldn’t get on board ??

 

[cern]

We moved up fairly easily to select Clairborne. Just saying.

he wasn't a qb. do you not distinguish the difference? we traded a #1 pick and gave up a second. think cincinnati will take that deal for burrow? if so, you're the only one.

 

[jazzcat22]

Cowboys have had pretty good success in those rounds over the years on QB’s with Morton, White and Aikman. With Quincy the only failure which he actually started a couple seasons going 18-16 with a playoff appearance.

Even our 1st round supplemental pick of Walsh netted us 3 draft picks including a 1st and 3rd which delivered two key pieces in 90’s dynasty.

I think we could present a strong argument the1st round is the place for us to look. As it is for most teams.

The year Quincey took us to the playoffs, or was in Parcells? No, well, it was Parcells in a way, because Dallas had the #1 defense that year as many seem to forget or are not aware of.
But agree, 1st round is the place as usual the better odds the QB will work out.

 

[Diehardblues]

he wasn't a qb. do you not distinguish the difference? we traded a #1 pick and gave up a second. think cincinnati will take that deal for burrow? if so, you're the only one.

That wasn’t why I used that example . It was to reply that we weren’t stuck in our draft slot.

But yea, Id agree otherwise .

 

[CouchCoach]

It’s a great example how much value franchises place on the QB position . And I’m right there with them.

No doubt Burrows had a strong supporting cast and I can agree with much of Herbstreet message. But Burrow not only made all of the throws , he made the heady decisions as well. Not sure LSU goes as far without him.

Drafting a QB is always a risk and so many factors can lead to a bust including going to a bad team which so many of these top QB picks go to and why I think so many bust. It’s a very difficult transition.

And why I strongly believe he’d make a much bigger impact coming in this offense than in Cincinnati or other bottom dwellers.

I think I like him even more than Trevor who has all of that supporting cast as well. But that’s all part of the draft. You can only measure by their performance at that level. And Burrow competed in strongest conference against some of the best defenses and toughest schedules in recent memory.

There is no question Burrow would do better with a better team just as Marino, Rothliesberger, Watson and Prescott did as rookies.

I also have little doubt that the big 3 are more consistently accurate passers than Prescott but I do believe Prescott is good enough. He is more the game manager type, which is not a slam at all, if guys like George and Cutler had tried to game manage more, they might have had better and longer careers.

I do not think Prescott is the reason the team hasn't done better. He didn't lose the playoff games, he has more than held up his end of it. They are going to have to put a better team around him.

Greg, do not covet thy neighbor's QB.

 

[CouchCoach]

he wasn't a qb. do you not distinguish the difference? we traded a #1 pick and gave up a second. think cincinnati will take that deal for burrow? if so, you're the only one.

Hell, CIN might have put the rumor out there that Burrow doesn't want to play for them to see what they could kick up.

It's going to take quite a bit from the 17 spot to get to Burrow or Tua. And not the standard values, these guys are a little more special than that with some feeling Tua might be the next Mahomes. And CIN needs quite a bit more than just a QB1.

 

[Diehardblues]

There is no question Burrow would do better with a better team just as Marino, Rothliesberger, Watson and Prescott did as rookies.

I also have little doubt that the big 3 are more consistently accurate passers than Prescott but I do believe Prescott is good enough. He is more the game manager type, which is not a slam at all, if guys like George and Cutler had tried to game manage more, they might have had better and longer careers.

I do not think Prescott is the reason the team hasn't done better. He didn't lose the playoff games, he has more than held up his end of it. They are going to have to put a better team around him.

Greg, do not covet thy neighbor's QB.

Of course we covet thy neighbors QB. I covet their owners and whoever else I’d rather have.

We aren’t obligated to unconditionally love our players , coaches or owners ..only the sum. All the moving pieces are interchangeable.

We missed out on our best window to win with Dak. It’s just going to get tougher now that we have to pay him much like the rest of teams after they have to pay their QB.

I’m afraid this was the best supporting cast we will be able to provide him. Now it’s going to be up to his talent to elevate others and carry us like all highly paid franchise QB’s. If we dont believe he’s that guy then we are foolish. More foolish than we were with Romo who could at least elevate some around him.

 

[Diehardblues]

Hell, CIN might have put the rumor out there that Burrow doesn't want to play for them to see what they could kick up.

It's going to take quite a bit from the 17 spot to get to Burrow or Tua. And not the standard values, these guys are a little more special than that with some feeling Tua might be the next Mahomes. And CIN needs quite a bit more than just a QB1.

2 #1’s and our 17th pick should do it. Throw in some supplemental picks too.

Im not as sold on Tua. I’d go after Herbert instead. But Burrow could be that Mahomes or Trevor type.

Wasn’t it you a couple years ago who said Trevor could be the next coming? I thought Burrow looked better than Trevor.

Hey, wanting someone greater doesn’t have to be about bashing our guy. Dak has done all he could. Definitely over achieved for his draft slot and passing ability. Good leader and represented the Star well . A nice bridge to our next great QB.

 

[Kwyn]

Hell, CIN might have put the rumor out there that Burrow doesn't want to play for them to see what they could kick up.

It's going to take quite a bit from the 17 spot to get to Burrow or Tua. And not the standard values, these guys are a little more special than that with some feeling Tua might be the next Mahomes. And CIN needs quite a bit more than just a QB1.

Jump up Jimmy’s draft pick value scorecard says it would take 3 #16 overall picks to equal the value of the #1 overall. And a team that sucks as bad as The Bengals would probably not want to wait three years to get them all so you’d have to trade a bunch of other picks to get two firsts this year.

Because it’s a QB everyone is considering at that spot it would probably take more, say a 2nd in addition to the three firsts

 

[clff15701]

The Cowboys arent willing to go all in. Trade Dak for a first and then make the move.