Looking back. how dumb was Laura Miller

[Longboysfan]

I hope that Trinity River project finishes before I die.

Wasn't there also a proposal to build off of 35 across from the AAC? Also wasn't there an idea to turn Reunion Arena into a casino? The area has improved but it could have been a mini-NYC by now with more vision from the Dallas City Council and the Mayor.

I'm just hoping they finish 35E and 35W in the next 10 years.

 

[jterrell]

She thought she was protecting Dallas from paying taxes on a stadium but she really just sent Dallas money to Arlington.

It was insanely short-sighted and most knew it at the time.

The area around Fair Park was badly in need of revitalization and the new stadium would have brought development that spanned from Fair Park to Deep Ellum across to American Airlines Center and the West End.

Dallas with Miller as Mayor wet the bed and allowed Jerry to go work with Arlington and Frisco. Both cities flourishing in growth with Cowboys ties.

Dallas ISD used Texas Stadium regularly for events. The stadium being in Irving was much different than Arlington.

As a person born and raised in Dallas I can assure you they need to pull people with money living in the suburbs back into town for events.
The Mavs and Stars do that and AAC has decent events. But the Cowboys was the big opp gone by.

 

[jterrell]

They would have built on the Cotton Bowl footprint.
But think about it. State Fair lost for at least a year or scaled back to half of what it is.
Then where would the parking lots be????
Across the Rail road tracks next to the upscale homes in the area.

No. It's in a better place where it is now.

Where the stadium is now was all super low income housing.
When you build a stadium you buy those houses out and improve the area dramatically.
The Fair runs for all of one month. It would have operated just fine for the one year before being insanely improved the following year.

The parking for the State Fair and the concert halls would have been Cowboys Stadium Parking as well.
And all those low income houses who charge 10 bucks ot park in their front yard would have been gone replaced by actual parking lots.
And the biggest plus would have been the actual use of mass transit.
Downtown and Fair Park are the only real areas of Dallas where mass transit works at all.

 

[StylisticS]

IIRC, she didn't want to build the AAC either, right?

 

[Longboysfan]

Where the stadium is now was all super low income housing.
When you build a stadium you buy those houses out and improve the area dramatically.
The Fair runs for all of one month. It would have operated just fine for the one year before being insanely improved the following year.

The parking for the State Fair and the concert halls would have been Cowboys Stadium Parking as well.
And all those low income houses who charge 10 bucks ot park in their front yard would have been gone replaced by actual parking lots.
And the biggest plus would have been the actual use of mass transit.
Downtown and Fair Park are the only real areas of Dallas where mass transit works at all.

Driving down into the Fair Park area is no pinic.
Roads are conjested as it is now. I30 and 35W are a mess there.
Even with the mass transit light rail and the removal of some low income housing for parking.
You still have to account for the State Fair sites. They would make sure the places they have there would not be lost.
You still have to take into account the area not touched by the stadium build. Not a fan friendly area.
Jerry does not allow - well Arlington - you to use the homes that are in the close in area to the stadium to park in.
He would have done the same near Fair Park.

In conclusion - the Jones family was happy that Dallas rejected the plan and they went to Arlington.

 

[jterrell]

Driving down into the Fair Park area is no pinic.
Roads are conjested as it is now. I30 and 35W are a mess there.
Even with the mass transit light rail and the removal of some low income housing for parking.
You still have to account for the State Fair sites. They would make sure the places they have there would not be lost.
You still have to take into account the area not touched by the stadium build. Not a fan friendly area.
Jerry does not allow - well Arlington - you to use the homes that are in the close in area to the stadium to park in.
He would have done the same near Fair Park.

In conclusion - the Jones family was happy that Dallas rejected the plan and they went to Arlington.

Yes, Jerry was just looking for an out and Miller gave it to him... a huge mistep.
The infratructure around Fair Park would have all been upgraded just as it was on Arlington.
The houses all bought out and the area re-zoned just as it was in Arlington.

Reality is everything would be better in that area now and Dallas would have made a killing.

The value of that land in Arlington has risen by a factor of x10.
That's for stuff as much as 1 mile from the stadium.
3 bedroom houses around Fair Park right now sell for below 50k... BELOW 50k....
They likely would be over 500K for the newly built houses had the stadium went in.

 

[Zordon]

She thought she was protecting Dallas from paying taxes on a stadium but she really just sent Dallas money to Arlington.

It was insanely short-sighted and most knew it at the time.

The area around Fair Park was badly in need of revitalization and the new stadium would have brought development that spanned from Fair Park to Deep Ellum across to American Airlines Center and the West End.

Dallas with Miller as Mayor wet the bed and allowed Jerry to go work with Arlington and Frisco. Both cities flourishing in growth with Cowboys ties.

Dallas ISD used Texas Stadium regularly for events. The stadium being in Irving was much different than Arlington.

As a person born and raised in Dallas I can assure you they need to pull people with money living in the suburbs back into town for events.
The Mavs and Stars do that and AAC has decent events. But the Cowboys was the big opp gone by.

Hopefully they don't make the same mistake with the ballpark. The heat is becoming a big problem for rangers fans (as evidenced by the low attendance this summer). I bet they propose for a new retractable roof ballpark.

But yes you are right, a Cowboys stadium near downtown would have been godly for this city. This is something Houston got right.

 

[Longboysfan]

Yes, Jerry was just looking for an out and Miller gave it to him... a huge mistep.
The infratructure around Fair Park would have all been upgraded just as it was on Arlington.
The houses all bought out and the area re-zoned just as it was in Arlington.

Reality is everything would be better in that area now and Dallas would have made a killing.

The value of that land in Arlington has risen by a factor of x10.
That's for stuff as much as 1 mile from the stadium.
3 bedroom houses around Fair Park right now sell for below 50k... BELOW 50k....
They likely would be over 500K for the newly built houses had the stadium went in.

The infrastructure around Fair Park would have cost Dallas a lot more. Highways would have to be completely upgraded.
There is not a lot of room on the I30 area near Fair Park for that type of expansion.
The land values in Arlington did not go up 10X near the staduim. They may have moved up a little maybe 2X but not much.
Game days, or event days not just Cowboy games, those homes around the stadium are locked in a massive traffic tie up.
Same would hold true to Fair Park area. The get away from Fair Park for the majority of the fans attending is get onto I30 West.
One highway. At least in Arlington the fans driving can escape on larger back roads to I30 East and West, 360 North and South, 157 North and South, I20 East and West.

Reality about the build in Fair Park is Yes things would have been better in the area - generally.
But - Do you think Jerry would want the trappings of the Texas State Fair right up next to his building?
Do you think Dallas would want a bigger slice of a revenue flow from the Cowboys, larger than Arlington?

I've driven through the area about Fair Park going to Texas State Fair.
Ahhhhh... No way the homes there going from 50K value to 500K.
Who would live there when the majority of the jobs in the area are in the downtown and they would be traffic locked in their neighborhoods.

 

[jterrell]

The infrastructure around Fair Park would have cost Dallas a lot more. Highways would have to be completely upgraded.
There is not a lot of room on the I30 area near Fair Park for that type of expansion.
The land values in Arlington did not go up 10X near the staduim. They may have moved up a little maybe 2X but not much.
Game days, or event days not just Cowboy games, those homes around the stadium are locked in a massive traffic tie up.
Same would hold true to Fair Park area. The get away from Fair Park for the majority of the fans attending is get onto I30 West.
One highway. At least in Arlington the fans driving can escape on larger back roads to I30 East and West, 360 North and South, 157 North and South, I20 East and West.

Reality about the build in Fair Park is Yes things would have been better in the area - generally.
But - Do you think Jerry would want the trappings of the Texas State Fair right up next to his building?
Do you think Dallas would want a bigger slice of a revenue flow from the Cowboys, larger than Arlington?

I've driven through the area about Fair Park going to Texas State Fair.
Ahhhhh... No way the homes there going from 50K value to 500K.
Who would live there when the majority of the jobs in the area are in the downtown and they would be traffic locked in their neighborhoods.

Sorry man but you are just wrong here. http://www.tad.org/search-property
The average property has increased 30% FOR ALL OF ARLINGTON. But around the stadium it has increased 10 fold. The entire zip code has seen a rise from an avg of 60k(in Q2 2011) to 140k for Q3 of 2014(last reported). That's 2.25 times increase for the entire zip code.

As to the other thing you are simply off the mark .
The area around AAC which was done after Dallas screwed up with the Cowboys is the most high dollar acreage in the actual city.
It includes the W hotel where Lamar Odom and whichever Kardashian lived. It is a couple MILLION for those apartments.
There has been a boom of folks wanting to love there because of travel.
People like living close to where they work in many cases.Especially as traffic has gotten so bad getting to and from the suburbs.
It is the same for LA, CHI, NY. The only other really comparable traffic situations.

That high value area is 5 minutes drive from Fair Park. And the Dallas Convention Center including attached 4 star hotel is like 5 minutes WALK.

The roads are under construction ANYWAYS. Having the .5% tax increase paying for them would have cost more than it did in Arlington but you have A LOT more people thus a far larger tax base to fund it at the same per person cost... supposedly 200 per year per household. Dallas has four times as many people thus could spend 4 times as much money for the same tax increase.

Arlington is on pace to pay off their Bonds 10 years early!!!! They make 500k per year off just the naming rights.
They've seen a huge influx of revenue as people eat, buy gas and other things in Arlington for these events.
It would obviously be even more revenue for a downtown Dallas area so close to the West End, Uptown and Deep Ellum.

You are simply off base if you feel this was a good decision by Dallas, led at the time by Miller.
It was a ghastly mistake and Miller has basically had per political career canned because of it.

I made it from Frisco to Fair Park in 30 minutes last night to drop off my kid at the Chris Brown concert. Aside from rush hour, traffic is seldom an issue really. In rush hour you can't get anywhere so the only way to beat it is to live shorter distances.

 

[trickblue]

Can you imagine the State Fair, Texas-OU Weekend at Fair Park followed by Cowboys-Commanders on Sunday? That would have been a boondoggle...

 

[jterrell]

Can you imagine the State Fair, Texas-OU Weekend at Fair Park followed by Cowboys-Commanders on Sunday? That would have been a boondoggle...

It might be the most fun a sports fan could have.
OU/UT makes for a great time. West End is always packed and insanely fun.
Add a major Cowboys match up and WOW.

As a suburbanite I promise I'd seriously consider grabbing a hotel and staying the weekend for that type stuff.
As it is I have to drive to Arlington for Cowboys plus for Tech/Baylor.

My youngest plays club volleyball at the dallas convention center 4 or 5 times a year.
A lot of girls do stay at the hotel there attached now.
If I could spend part of the day at a Cowboys game... oh man that would be awesome.

 

[trickblue]

It might be the most fun a sports fan could have.
OU/UT makes for a great time. West End is always packed and insanely fun.
Add a major Cowboys match up and WOW.

As a suburbanite I promise I'd seriously consider grabbing a hotel and staying the weekend for that type stuff.
As it is I have to drive to Arlington for Cowboys plus for Tech/Baylor.

My youngest plays club volleyball at the dallas convention center 4 or 5 times a year.
A lot of girls do stay at the hotel there attached now.
If I could spend part of the day at a Cowboys game... oh man that would be awesome.

That's what I miss about living in Dallas... going to sporting events. I love Austin but minor league hockey and baseball just isn't the same...

 

[Silver Surfer]

Can you imagine the State Fair, Texas-OU Weekend at Fair Park followed by Cowboys-Commanders on Sunday? That would have been a boondoggle...

It would have been a boondoggle minus the doggle. Given the entrepreneurial spirit in Texas, it would have highlighted a string of events called something like "The Redneck Octoberfest". Town would have jammed for weeks. Huge money.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

Sorry man but you are just wrong here. http://www.tad.org/search-property
The average property has increased 30% FOR ALL OF ARLINGTON. But around the stadium it has increased 10 fold. The entire zip code has seen a rise from an avg of 60k(in Q2 2011) to 140k for Q3 of 2014(last reported). That's 2.25 times increase for the entire zip code.

As to the other thing you are simply off the mark .
The area around AAC which was done after Dallas screwed up with the Cowboys is the most high dollar acreage in the actual city.
It includes the W hotel where Lamar Odom and whichever Kardashian lived. It is a couple MILLION for those apartments.
There has been a boom of folks wanting to love there because of travel.
People like living close to where they work in many cases.Especially as traffic has gotten so bad getting to and from the suburbs.
It is the same for LA, CHI, NY. The only other really comparable traffic situations.

That high value area is 5 minutes drive from Fair Park. And the Dallas Convention Center including attached 4 star hotel is like 5 minutes WALK.

The roads are under construction ANYWAYS. Having the .5% tax increase paying for them would have cost more than it did in Arlington but you have A LOT more people thus a far larger tax base to fund it at the same per person cost... supposedly 200 per year per household. Dallas has four times as many people thus could spend 4 times as much money for the same tax increase.

Arlington is on pace to pay off their Bonds 10 years early!!!! They make 500k per year off just the naming rights.
They've seen a huge influx of revenue as people eat, buy gas and other things in Arlington for these events.
It would obviously be even more revenue for a downtown Dallas area so close to the West End, Uptown and Deep Ellum.

You are simply off base if you feel this was a good decision by Dallas, led at the time by Miller.
It was a ghastly mistake and Miller has basically had per political career canned because of it.

I made it from Frisco to Fair Park in 30 minutes last night to drop off my kid at the Chris Brown concert. Aside from rush hour, traffic is seldom an issue really. In rush hour you can't get anywhere so the only way to beat it is to live shorter distances.

The convention center is 1.5 miles from Victory Park and the AAC. 5.5 miles from Fair Park. HARDLY a 5 min walk or drive in the best of circumstances. Let alone during the times they'd be being used. Configuration of streets and parking just makes that so. Plus the average vacancy rate of those apts/condos already inhabitable, has hovered around 30-40 percent from the moment they open their doors. BTW, that 4-star hotel you cite being "like a 5 min walk from the convention center", is actually directly across the street and connected by a pedestrian skyway.

Trademark Property has been working on the neighborhood for three years, and all they have to show for it is some publicly-funded sidewalk expansions. They’ve lost more bars/restaurants than they’ve added, and they’ve yet to spend a dime of their own money. They promised the city council that they would spend $100 million to redevelop Victory Park in exchange for the public-funded sidewalks, streets, and parking garage, but none of the promised projects have started.

And as if the project delays aren’t bad enough, their future plans suggest they’re trying to turn Victory Park Lane into another one of their suburban strip mall projects, full of chain stores and restaurants that don’t add to a livable, walkable neighborhood. The “park” in Victory Park is a disaster they want to make worse by building new restaurants on the park corners instead of adding more park amenities. They reportedly told Buzzbrews they will need to “class-up” their establishment if they move to Victory because they don’t want to attract a certain crowd, as if Victory Park should be the type of neighborhood that shuts down at 10pm and where people aren’t supposed to have a good time.

They’ve missed out on every grocery store project in the area (including the Cityplace Kroger, the McKinney Avenue Whole Foods, the Fresh Market on Turtle Creek, and the Trader Joe’s planned for Oak Lawn). At a neighborhood meeting last summer, a Trademark Property representative admitted that they’ve given up on trying to attract any type of grocery store even though other neighborhoods are continuing to add grocery stores (see, e.g., Candace Carlisle’s 10/1/14 article about the new Cityplace hotel/grocery/apartment center). The latest rumor is that Skyhouse Dallas management wants to add a Royal Blue Grocer, but that the powers-that-be don’t see the need. I suppose the 6000 new residents moving into the confines of Victory Park are just supposed to order takeout from NEOs or Naga every night.

In short, Trademark Property and the other parties-in-interest have no clue what people need in a walkable, urban neighborhood. Trademark Property is just trying to turn Victory Park into another one of their suburban strip centers.

The MYTH that the Fair Park area would have EVER been a viable location for what was built in Arlington, and that L. Miller somehow SINGLE-HANDILY thwarted it, is on par w/ the "Jackie Smith cost Dallas the win in SB XIII!"

 

[Zordon]

She's back! Up against Staubach's daughter.

 

[Silver Surfer]

She's back! Up against Staubach's daughter.

Look at her platform.... its the same stuff we talked about 3 years ago. Apparently being a PITA is her raison d'etre.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/02/15/former-dallas-mayor-laura-miller-city-council/

 

[Hardline]

Arlington is the idea location right between Dallas and Ft.Worth.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The problem is the same all over the country. You have people in elected office who are just way over their head in terms of business. They don't understand basic finance. NY just lost the Amazon headquarters b/c the moron local politicians don't understand the different between tax breaks and cash.