Looking Forward to a Rebuilt Secondary

[Fletch]

What's funny in all these analyses about how we are going to have a rebuilt secondary is that no one seems to understand that there is the very real possibility our secondary could suck even worse than the one we had.

People just seem to be assuming that since this is a deep CB draft that we'll draft a couple, they'll be hits and all will be well.

What happens if we take some duds at CB?

This is why I think it was foolish to let Claiborne walk for $5MM for one year. Claiborne was a safety net for the team. You could still draft a CB or two and try to rebuild the secondary.

And how many games were we gonna get out of Claiborne had we kept him? 7-10 per season(s), maybe? Not much of a safety net if you ask me.

 

[Kaiser]

We lost 4 players. We will NOT be able to replace 4 players in one draft, especially since we all know whoever we get in the 2nd round will be a bust (or a TE, lol).

This defense won't be even close to good until 2018.

We "lost" four players but one of them Wilcox is a guy we assumed would be cut in training camp last year. Another one Claiborne is a guy most fans did not want to resign last year because he was never healthy. He wasn't healthy again and Anthony Brown started more games than he did last year.

Brandon Carr is a guy who was never a #1 CB and who was always overpaid. He was a guy that few people expected back once he contract expired and when he left he was replaced by Carroll, who is just as good or better.

We start training camp with Scandrick, Brown and Carroll while last year we started the year with Scandrick, Claiborne and Carr. That is at least a push and there is no doubt that we draft a good CB to join them.

Church was a team captain and a good player in run defense but someone we had to change our scheme for to keep him out of coverage. It won't be hard to replace him, despite the doom and gloom here.

 

[waving monkey]

What's funny in all these analyses about how we are going to have a rebuilt secondary is that no one seems to understand that there is the very real possibility our secondary could suck even worse than the one we had.

People just seem to be assuming that since this is a deep CB draft that we'll draft a couple, they'll be hits and all will be well.

What happens if we take some duds at CB?

This is why I think it was foolish to let Claiborne walk for $5MM for one year. Claiborne was a safety net for the team. You could still draft a CB or two and try to rebuild the secondary.

I don't think assumption is the word but hopeful is warranted. I like the reputation of this draft. We'll do all the due diligence. IT'S NOT OUR ONCE RODEO.

 

[Denim Chicken]

How can anyone "love" the Carroll signing?

He was one of the worst CBs in football last year. LOL. That's like saying I would "love" it if we had signed Nick Foles or Brady Quinn to be QB.

Carroll is about equal to Carr for me. So you get the same level of production for much less money and look to upgrade when you can. Not saying I love the signing, but I get what they're doing, though I still think they overpaid.

 

[jwooten15]

It just kind of sucks because it seems as if the front office considers 2017 a "transition year" to build the defense up, rather than really trying to be contenders. Because there's no way we can replace all the players we have lost and build it into a cohesive unit in one offseason. Here's to hoping we can have a balanced defense to compliment our offense in 2018.

 

[Kaiser]

And how many games were we gonna get out of Claiborne had we kept him? 7-10 per season(s), maybe? Not much of a safety net if you ask me.

Claiborne missed more games over the last three years than he played in. I would have resigned him to the same contract he had last year, but I definitely would not have topped the offer he got.

Its funny, Claiborne has one healthy season out of five and some here act like he was a lock. Romo was healthy for 8 seasons out of 10 at a much more physically challenging position and the common theme here is that he is made of glass.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

What's funny in all these analyses about how we are going to have a rebuilt secondary is that no one seems to understand that there is the very real possibility our secondary could suck even worse than the one we had.

People just seem to be assuming that since this is a deep CB draft that we'll draft a couple, they'll be hits and all will be well.

What happens if we take some duds at CB?

This is why I think it was foolish to let Claiborne walk for $5MM for one year. Claiborne was a safety net for the team. You could still draft a CB or two and try to rebuild the secondary.

Free agency is not over and there are emergency vets out there (Sam Shields, Leon Hall, Alternon Verner, Patrick Robinson) if the rookie CBs underwhelm at first. Of course, if we completely whiff on the rookie CB's, we'll have problems.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Yes they could suck, but I doubt they could be any worse.
However, that's why I said IF they hit on players in the draft.
But also, we do have Scandrick, Brown and Carroll, Byron Jones too. So they need to hit on a SS. So not as bad as it seems.

We were #1 in the redzone on the road, and at home middle of the pack. Can't ignore what experience we had with Carr, Claiborne, Church and even Wilcox. Adding a bunch of rookies, only will be a red flag in the redzoze. So with that, unless our pass rush is improved, I don't see anything near the redzone success we had.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

We do not need to replace 4 players in the secondary. If we hit on a SS, and a good prospect at CB, we will be fine.

Fine as in what? Only fine as in we have a pass rush to help their inexperience.

 

[T-RO]

Effectiveness metrics aren't perfect....and the different flavors don't agree. But this is a young man's sport...and especially at cornerback. Carr in particular is getting up there.
Just a few years ago lots of fans here wanted us to pay mega millions to sign Revis. He was just beginning to decline and isn't a much of a player anymore. I suspect Carroll may be a backup by the middle of the season. This is a perfect draft to load up on Dbs.

 

[conner01]

What's funny in all these analyses about how we are going to have a rebuilt secondary is that no one seems to understand that there is the very real possibility our secondary could suck even worse than the one we had.

People just seem to be assuming that since this is a deep CB draft that we'll draft a couple, they'll be hits and all will be well.

What happens if we take some duds at CB?

This is why I think it was foolish to let Claiborne walk for $5MM for one year. Claiborne was a safety net for the team. You could still draft a CB or two and try to rebuild the secondary.

There are always risks in the draft. Just like in free agency. But I think the odds of getting a decent cb in the draft are much better than Mo playing 16 games, so why not roll the dice

 

[gmoney112]

We were #1 in the redzone on the road, and at home middle of the pack. Can't ignore what experience we had with Carr, Claiborne, Church and even Wilcox. Adding a bunch of rookies, only will be a red flag in the redzoze. So with that, unless our pass rush is improved, I don't see anything near the redzone success we had.

If it makes you feel any better, we were 21st in pts/redzone per drive, and 17th in tds/redzone per drive

So the bar isn't set very high

 

[negativecreep]

Scandrik is younger than Caroll.

I thought they were both 30? Only Scandrick has been in the league 9 years to Carrol's 6...

 

[jazzcat22]

We were #1 in the redzone on the road, and at home middle of the pack. Can't ignore what experience we had with Carr, Claiborne, Church and even Wilcox. Adding a bunch of rookies, only will be a red flag in the redzoze. So with that, unless our pass rush is improved, I don't see anything near the redzone success we had.

A bunch of rookies won't be starting. We have a very good vet player in Scandrick, a very good second year player in Brown, and a good depth, nickel guy in Carroll, or if he starts no worse than Carr or Mo.
We will a 3rd year very good FS in Jones. So maybe a rookie at SS or a 2nd year guy in Frazier, or even Heath.
So the rookies will be depth.

 

[gimmesix]

We lost 4 players as we all know.

As much as I wanted to resign a few of these guys, then add through the draft. I am also glad they moved on, and we now must build through the draft.
It sparks an interest and a level of excitement to see what they will be able to do with new players. As the old players have been mediocre way too long.

Now that I look back on it, I would rather have some frustration with new players with the possibility of improvement, than the frustration with the same players and the same results and no improvement. I guess I am tired of the excuse, get a better pass rush and they will be better on turnovers. Still the pass coverage lacked, even in games where we got pressure.

It was time to move on, and as I said, as I reflect back, I am glad this happened.

We still have Scandrick, who will be 100% going into TC and the season. Brown who played very well in his rookie year. We signed Carroll, who is a better fit in Marinelli's system. Add a few draft picks and the CB's will be fine.
We have B. Jones at FS, and need some depth here, and Heath at SS, and may or may not be the answer, but he has improved, but still draft a SS. Frazier was drafted last year, so let him compete with a few draft choices.

If they hit on the right players, I think we can have a sense of excitement going into TC.

Right now, our starting secondary is CB Nolan Carroll/Anthony Brown, CB Orlando Scandrick, FS Byron Jones, SS Jeff Heath. Any conjecture over us adding a starter at one of those position in the draft is just conjecture ... just as it was last year when DE was considered our biggest need and we didn't draft one until the fourth round.

If anyone is looking forward to that starting lineup, I have to wonder what they are seeing.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How can anyone "love" the Carroll signing?

He was one of the worst CBs in football last year. LOL. That's like saying I would "love" it if we had signed Nick Foles or Brady Quinn to be QB.

You keep repeating this hyperbole but I see nothing that you write to support it. I don't care if you live in Philly and watched him. That is no basis for league comparison.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right now, our starting secondary is CB Nolan Carroll/Anthony Brown, CB Orlando Scandrick, FS Byron Jones, SS Jeff Heath. Any conjecture over us adding a starter at one of those position in the draft is just conjecture ... just as it was last year when DE was considered our biggest need and we didn't draft one until the fourth round.

If anyone is looking forward to that starting lineup, I have to wonder what they are seeing.

You can look at the prospects available and evaluate. This draft isn't like it was last year when you got through 6 DEs and it was over.

It is not hyperbole when people say this is the deepest corner class they have ever seen.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127195&draftyear=2017&genpos=CB

This is a prospect projected to go in the 5th round, 184 overall, for example. He is the 23rd ranked corner.

S is not quite so deep but still nice and DE has interesting prospects about 14 deep.

 

[gmoney112]

A bunch of rookies won't be starting. We have a very good vet player in Scandrick, a very good second year player in Brown, and a good depth, nickel guy in Carroll, or if he starts no worse than Carr or Mo.
We will a 3rd year very good FS in Jones. So maybe a rookie at SS or a 2nd year guy in Frazier, or even Heath.
So the rookies will be depth.

Let's not get it twisted. So far, Nolan isn't on par with Carr/Mo.

He's also not absolutely terrible. He's fine for what his mission is, which is bridging the gap between now and when a younger player can get up to speed. I imagine if he's starting by the middle of the season, either something went terribly wrong or he's actually playing pretty well.

 

[jazzcat22]

Let's not get it twisted. So far, Nolan isn't on par with Carr/Mo.

He's also not absolutely terrible. He's fine for what his mission is, which is bridging the gap between now and when a younger player can get up to speed. I imagine if he's starting by the middle of the season, either something went terribly wrong or he's actually playing pretty well.

Mo and Carr was brought in by Rob Ryan, and a complete different coverage scheme than what Marmelli does. And they were out of place. Carroll fits This system better from all that I read.
So there is nothing twisted by it at all.

 

[gimmesix]

You can look at the prospects available and evaluate. This draft isn't like it was last year when you got through 6 DEs and it was over.

It is not hyperbole when people say this is the deepest corner class they have ever seen.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127195&draftyear=2017&genpos=CB

This is a prospect projected to go in the 5th round, 184 overall, for example. He is the 23rd ranked corner.

S is not quite so deep but still nice and DE has interesting prospects about 14 deep.

At one time, experts and fans thought Pat Watkins should have been drafted in the second round and Cowboys fans were ecstatic when we got him in the fifth (or was it sixth?). For that matter, Jones called Claiborne the best corner since Deion when we took him and injuries kept us from getting much out of him until the past year or so.

Going into the draft, you've got to be prepared to live with what you've got, and what we've got is not a lot. (It wasn't before, either, but I'd take what we had in the secondary over what we've gained.)

I understand that changes were needed in the secondary and I'm totally for that, but you can't lose what you had, replace them with virtually nothing and expect to get better. If we spend a first-round pick on a defensive back (which I didn't want to have to do because of our defensive end needs), then we're probably at least guaranteed to have improved one of those starting positions. Anything else is fairly iffy.

Dallas checking out Robert Blanton gives me hope that we're at least going to bring in one safety who has some starts under his belt to pare with what we've got and what we bring in.