Looking Forward to a Rebuilt Secondary

[big dog cowboy]

We lost 4 players.

4 players the Cowboy fan base has wanted ran out town for how long???

The Cowboys lost JAG's not pro bowl types.

Let's not rue those 4 plays. They aren't worth it.

 

[GIFTS86]

I was hoping byron jones would be at corner and they moved Claiborne to that FS position. I thought that might help cover some weakness in our situation. IDK it's all over now

 

[big dog cowboy]

Carroll might end up being better than what we lost, but as I said, he wasn't considered better in free agency.

He fits the defense better than Mo or Carr. That makes him more valuable to the Cowboys.

 

[gimmesix]

He fits the defense better than Mo or Carr. That makes him more valuable to the Cowboys.

Maybe. I just got done reading the Stephen Jones thread and it seems like it was more of a money issue to me. Carroll's here and Carr's not because Carroll was cheaper.

Carr had a better season than Carroll so it's understandable why he was cheaper.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

We lost 4 players as we all know.

As much as I wanted to resign a few of these guys, then add through the draft. I am also glad they moved on, and we now must build through the draft.
It sparks an interest and a level of excitement to see what they will be able to do with new players. As the old players have been mediocre way too long.

Now that I look back on it, I would rather have some frustration with new players with the possibility of improvement, than the frustration with the same players and the same results and no improvement. I guess I am tired of the excuse, get a better pass rush and they will be better on turnovers. Still the pass coverage lacked, even in games where we got pressure.

It was time to move on, and as I said, as I reflect back, I am glad this happened.

We still have Scandrick, who will be 100% going into TC and the season. Brown who played very well in his rookie year. We signed Carroll, who is a better fit in Marinelli's system. Add a few draft picks and the CB's will be fine.
We have B. Jones at FS, and need some depth here, and Heath at SS, and may or may not be the answer, but he has improved, but still draft a SS. Frazier was drafted last year, so let him compete with a few draft choices.

If they hit on the right players, I think we can have a sense of excitement going into TC.

Just give Coach Marinade one bliue-chip CB in the draft. Followed by a mean, fat run stuffer ....

 

[jazzcat22]

Maybe. I just got done reading the Stephen Jones thread and it seems like it was more of a money issue to me. Carroll's here and Carr's not because Carroll was cheaper.

Carr had a better season than Carroll so it's understandable why he was cheaper.

Better by what standards...Carroll fits this system better, and Carr was supposedly thinking of retiring. Why bring back a player that was not a difference maker, and may retire on you in a year, or be stuck with the same old same old for 4 more years.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We lost 4 players as we all know.

As much as I wanted to resign a few of these guys, then add through the draft. I am also glad they moved on, and we now must build through the draft.
It sparks an interest and a level of excitement to see what they will be able to do with new players. As the old players have been mediocre way too long.

Now that I look back on it, I would rather have some frustration with new players with the possibility of improvement, than the frustration with the same players and the same results and no improvement. I guess I am tired of the excuse, get a better pass rush and they will be better on turnovers. Still the pass coverage lacked, even in games where we got pressure.

It was time to move on, and as I said, as I reflect back, I am glad this happened.

We still have Scandrick, who will be 100% going into TC and the season. Brown who played very well in his rookie year. We signed Carroll, who is a better fit in Marinelli's system. Add a few draft picks and the CB's will be fine.
We have B. Jones at FS, and need some depth here, and Heath at SS, and may or may not be the answer, but he has improved, but still draft a SS. Frazier was drafted last year, so let him compete with a few draft choices.

If they hit on the right players, I think we can have a sense of excitement going into TC.

Ill give you this...............................I am more than pleased that all these cats are gone. They are not the type of players that win you championships. And certainly to get the woeful salary of Carr finally off the books.

But for anyone to contemplate that our secondary is better now then it was 3 weeks ago is just ridiculous. Our backups couldnt even beat out the guys we had starting. And few castoffs we signed are as bad or worse then the guys we had starting.

That being said, I am optimistic that we will find some young secondary guys in this draft. THAT being said, I fear it will be at the cost of not fixing our pass rush.

 

[gimmesix]

Better by what standards...Carroll fits this system better, and Carr was supposedly thinking of retiring. Why bring back a player that was not a difference maker, and may retire on you in a year, or be stuck with the same old same old for 4 more years.

Better by most people's standards. Carroll was the better player in 2015, while Carr was the better player in 2016. That doesn't mean Carr is the better player, only that he had a better system.

How does Carroll fit the system better?

Coming off three seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles, Nolan Carroll's looking for a multiyear contract, as he just turned 30 years old in January. Philly put Carroll into a tough situation. He played in a scheme that fit him—a press-heavy alignment—but was miscast as the Eagles' top cornerback. That role is not on par with Carroll's talent, which is closer to a rotational depth player than a bona fide starter.

Last season was the first time Carroll started all 16 games, but he's generally been reliable throughout his career. Being available to play is a good thing, especially among a crop of corners who have struggled to stay on the field over the last few years. Just once in his seven-year career has he played in 11 or fewer contests.

Though his upside is limited, he made just $2.36 million last season, per Spotrac. For that cost, he'd be a major upgrade as a third or fourth boundary corner for a handful of teams. A return to the Eagles could be possible if they whiff on other free-agent ventures, but there's a reason they should be aggressive in upgrading both starting corner spots.



Doug's Quick Take: Carroll's play has declined in each of the last three seasons as his snap count has increased, which may speak to a future as a situational player. As a backup outside and in the slot, he can still help a team, but asking him to take 1,000 snaps against top receivers is an iffy notion.

At best, I see Carroll as a lateral move to Carr (and I don't mind him as veteran depth). Now, if I thought Carr was great, then I'd be happy about it, but Carr is someone most of us wanted to replace. I don't see us feeling any different about Carroll if he takes the field for us as a starter.

 

[big dog cowboy]

How does Carroll fit the system better?

He is a better zone CB then Carr.

 

[gimmesix]

He is a better zone CB then Carr.

I can't say I've seen that, but if we do go to primarily Cover 2, it could help him do better than he has been doing if he's any good at zone. The safeties become much more important, though, and we're not exactly on sure footing there.

 

[AsthmaField]

How much worse? We had a freaking rookie start for majority of the year. People were bashing Claibourne and Carr and now all the sudden act like we lost two all pros.

Good post.

It wasn't just a rookie that started a lot for Dallas... it was a 6th round rookie.

And oh, by the way... he played damn well... and is still in Dallas.

I think Carroll is no worse than Carr and actually makes plays on the ball. In NFL.com's Top 101 Free Agents, they said that Carroll was the only DB in Philly last year that could actually cover. That doesn't mean he's great, of course... but the guy can cover as well as Carr IMO. He's not a throw away player. Just fans wanted a big name guy that was a clear upgrade to Carr/Claiborne.

Plus, they signed him to a 1 year contract. That is so much smarter than paying Carr big money (again) to sit back there and do not much of anything.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I can't say I've seen that, but if we do go to primarily Cover 2, it could help him do better than he has been doing if he's any good at zone. The safeties become much more important, though, and we're not exactly on sure footing there.

Good thing the season opener is still over 5 months away.

 

[gimmesix]

Good thing the season opener is still over 5 months away.

Certainly. There's plenty of time for Dallas to better address the situation. Right now, I would think defensive end and safety are at the top of the list with corner third because we did at least get an experienced starter there in Carroll.

However, as I've said elsewhere, I'd at least like to see us at least bring in a veteran at safety to compete. Carroll could end up being the third corner (or lower) with Brown, or a rookie, and Scandrick starting, but at least Carroll is competition as a veteran starter for the spot.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Certainly. There's plenty of time for Dallas to better address the situation. Right now, I would think defensive end and safety are at the top of the list with corner third because we did at least get an experienced starter there in Carroll.

However, as I've said elsewhere, I'd at least like to see us at least bring in a veteran at safety to compete. Carroll could end up being the third corner (or lower) with Brown, or a rookie, and Scandrick starting, but at least Carroll is competition as a veteran starter for the spot.

Completely agree. Good post. Glad Carroll is a better zone CB then Mo or Carr.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

4 players the Cowboy fan base has wanted ran out town for how long???

The Cowboys lost JAG's not pro bowl types.

Let's not rue those 4 plays. They aren't worth it.

Everyone in the secondary will be jags until we get a pass rush, the new additions won't do any better. In the redzone will prob be worse with lack of experience. (the rookies we get).

 

[NotForLong]

You can repeat yourself about the averages and aggregates all you like. I don't dispute that. I am telling you that this is a better than average class of DBs moreso it is the best I have ever seen.

When you look at the talent projected to go in the 5th round this year and compare it to the drafts of the past 15 years, the players available are just better than what we have seen in the 3rd and 4th round from previous years.

You are acting like all drafts breakdown like that chart but if you were to look at the individual samples you would quickly see there is variance. You have no idea what the percentage difference is and to assert that is "not that much better" is unfounded.

I am curious, do you know where Brown would be drafted in this years draft or would he be rookie free agent