Recommended Loss Forensics: Romo vs. the League's Top QB

[KJJ]

The problem with this is always going to be that there are no lesser games in the NFL. The more you win early on, the less the others matter. Every one is important from that aspect.

As far as lesser teams, the one you bring up here was certainly not one that year, yet some like you deem it less important because it wasn't a so-called "elimination game."

It's a skewed perspective.

There are lesser games in a 16 game schedule. Early season games are always going to be lesser than late season games because you have plenty of games left to recover from early losses. Teams are able to rebound from a rough first half of the season if they can get on a roll during the second half of the season. The 2011 Giants were 7-7 heading into week 16 and had to win their last 2 games to make the playoffs.

Games become more critical once you reach Dec because you know where you and everyone else in your division stand. The Cowboys beat Philly last season in week 7 but it was the week 17 game vs Philly that had each teams season on the line. Which team are you referring to that I brought up that was suppose to be a lesser team in my eyes?

 

[DallasEast]

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.
Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

The point was I just stated fact--the 5 most important games he played in last year, we won.

I do not see why anyone would argue against that fact.

 

[KJJ]

I'm not going to compare first-full-year starter Romo to the guy playing now.

He's pretty much the same guy we see now. He's makes a lot of plays, is very productive and he continues to make critical ill-timed mistakes with games on the line.

 

[DallasEast]

He's pretty much the same guy we see now. He's makes a lot of plays, is very productive and he continues to make critical ill-timed mistakes with games on the line.

This question is just for my personal clarification:

Are you stating that, in your opinion, the 2006/2007 Tony Romo is practically the same quarterback as the present-day Tony Romo?

 

[percyhoward]

Games become more critical once you reach Dec because you know where you and everyone else in your division stand.

And where these teams stand is determined by...

 

[gimmesix]

There are lesser games in a 16 game schedule. Early season games are always going to be lesser than late season games because you have plenty of games left to recover from early losses. Teams are able to rebound from a rough first half of the season if they can get on a roll during the second half of the season. The 2011 Giants were 7-7 heading into week 16 and had to win their last 2 games to make the playoffs.

Games become more critical once you reach Dec because you know where you and everyone else in your division stand. The Cowboys beat Philly last season in week 7 but it was the week 17 game vs Philly that had each teams season on the line. Which team are you referring to that I brought up that was suppose to be a lesser team in my eyes?

I still disagree. The value of each game is the same. If you lose the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser? Conversely, if you win the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser?

Let's take 2013 Seattle as an example. The Seahawks were 11-1 heading into December and then went 3-2. According to your "lesser" logic, Seattle going 4-0 in September wasn't important, but what it did was allow December to not really matter. Most teams would prefer that path.The urgency to win is the same throughout a 16-game season until a team no longer needs to win. You earmarking certain games as greater or lesser does not make it so to the teams trying to win every one of them (or at least enough to secure home-field advantage throughout the playoffs).

San Francisco was the team you devalued with your lesser logic. Not saying you called them a lesser team, but beating them didn't mean as much because it happened in a "lesser" game.

 

[CCBoy]

I learned a long time ago, just not to question a broad statement by Percy Howard, you'll wind up with a 'pencil head' approach while he'll be walking away with the wisdom in the observation.

'pencil head' - limiting observations to your own criteria for a statistical look

 

[Doomsday101]

I still disagree. The value of each game is the same. If you lose the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser? Conversely, if you win the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser?

Let's take 2013 Seattle as an example. The Seahawks were 11-1 heading into December and then went 3-2. According to your "lesser" logic, Seattle going 4-0 in September wasn't important, but what it did was allow December to not really matter. Most teams would prefer that path.The urgency to win is the same throughout a 16-game season until a team no longer needs to win. You earmarking certain games as greater or lesser does not make it so to the teams trying to win every one of them (or at least enough to secure home-field advantage throughout the playoffs).

San Francisco was the team you devalued with your lesser logic. Not saying you called them a lesser team, but beating them didn't mean as much because it happened in a "lesser" game.

I agree all 16 games are important but it is different when you are in a must win situation at the end of the season or a playoff game where you know there is no tomorrow it becomes now or never so the pressure is much greater. Your right the game itself is no different but the pressure on the players is

 

[Aurican]

I still disagree. The value of each game is the same. If you lose the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser? Conversely, if you win the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser?

Let's take 2013 Seattle as an example. The Seahawks were 11-1 heading into December and then went 3-2. According to your "lesser" logic, Seattle going 4-0 in September wasn't important, but what it did was allow December to not really matter. Most teams would prefer that path.The urgency to win is the same throughout a 16-game season until a team no longer needs to win. You earmarking certain games as greater or lesser does not make it so to the teams trying to win every one of them (or at least enough to secure home-field advantage throughout the playoffs).

San Francisco was the team you devalued with your lesser logic. Not saying you called them a lesser team, but beating them didn't mean as much because it happened in a "lesser" game.

Disagree, earlier in the year there is not the same type of pressure, even if you lose you can fall back on other teams losing as well, the exception is of course if you have the division locked up early but to say teams face the same pressure to lock up the division early as to stay alive is false. When it's the final game and all the cards have been dealt teams will pull all the stops and even put in players with injuries that may have not played earlier in the year.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Disagree, earlier in the year there is not the same type of pressure, even if you lose you can fall back on other teams losing as well, the exception is of course if you have the division locked up early but to say teams face the same pressure to lock up the division early as to stay alive is false. When it's the final game and all the cards have been dealt teams will pull all the stops and even put in players with injuries that may have not played earlier in the year.

Horrible logic. What if you lose and the other teams don't lose? Then your cornball, magical, do or die, lights shine bright, when it's all on the line games are meaningless. No matter how much you and your ilk get down on your knees and pray, a regular season game is just a regular season game.

And what does a fan sitting in his chair that's never ran a meter in his life know about "pressure". Don't make me laugh.

 

[KJJ]

This question is just for my personal clarification:

Are you stating that, in your opinion, the 2006/2007 Tony Romo is practically the same quarterback as the present-day Tony Romo?

He's obviously more experienced now but a lot of what we saw with Romo in 06-07 we still see today. Some of the best football I saw him play was after he made his first start vs Carolina in 06. He had a very impressive 5 game stretch in which he outplayed Peyton Manning in the Cowboys win over the Colts. The Colts were 9-0 entering that game and went on to win the SB that year. Romo made 2 of the most clutch throws I ever saw him make when that game was on the line. He hit Fasano with a big 3rd down throw and sealed the game with another big 3rd down completion to Terry Glenn allowing the Cowboys to run down the clock. Four days later vs TB on Thanksgiving he absolutely shredded the Bucs tying a Cowboys franchise record with 5 TD passes. He finished that game with a 148.9 passer rating. After that game I thought Romo had a chance to be a VERY special player. I honestly wouldn't have taken another QB in the league over him at that very moment.

His TD to turnover ratio during that 5 game stretch was 10-3 and the Cowboys record was 4-1 under Romo. I really started thinking the Cowboys hit the power ball with him but his game fell apart after the Thanksgiving day game which started a puzzling pattern of great Novembers and terrible Decembers the next few seasons. After the fumbled snap in the playoffs vs Seattle it sent Romo down a road he hasn't been able to get off of. He looks terrific at times and horrible at other times. We continue to see the impulse throws that get him in trouble and the late game turnovers. It's created a stigma he can't shake. The production has always been there from day one but so have the turnovers. Every season since 06 he has some amazing performances then out of nowhere he has a game that makes you scratch your head especially in the games that matter most. It's the same thing every year with him.

 

[Aurican]

Horrible logic. What if you lose and the other teams don't lose? Then your cornball, magical, do or die, lights shine bright, when it's all on the line games are meaningless. No matter how much you and your ilk get down on your knees and pray, a regular season game is just a regular season game.

And what does a fan sitting in his chair that's never ran a meter in his life know about "pressure". Don't make me laugh.

Yeah okay Miss Cleo the point is you don't know at that point but when you are in the final game you do. Are you saying there is no such thing as pressure, I guess it's made up and all the athletes and coaches that speak about it know nothing compared to you LOL.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Yeah okay Miss Cleo the point is you don't know at that point but when you are in the final game you do. Are you saying there is no such thing as pressure, I guess it's made up and all the athletes and coaches that speak about it know nothing compared to you LOL.

I have no idea what pressure is, I am not a professional athlete nor do I pretend to be one. I am willing to believe in the concept obviously, but not to the point where nonathletic, beer gut fans start handing out pressure scores to each situation as if they had the slightest idea what they were talking about.

A little birdie once told me that throwing a TD on 4th down with your season on the line was a great pressure situation. No doubt you will counter that because it was the Commanders and "only" Week 16, there was less pressure (or something similarly stupid).

 

[birdwells1]

I still disagree. The value of each game is the same. If you lose the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser? Conversely, if you win the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser?

Let's take 2013 Seattle as an example. The Seahawks were 11-1 heading into December and then went 3-2. According to your "lesser" logic, Seattle going 4-0 in September wasn't important, but what it did was allow December to not really matter. Most teams would prefer that path.The urgency to win is the same throughout a 16-game season until a team no longer needs to win. You earmarking certain games as greater or lesser does not make it so to the teams trying to win every one of them (or at least enough to secure home-field advantage throughout the playoffs).

San Francisco was the team you devalued with your lesser logic. Not saying you called them a lesser team, but beating them didn't mean as much because it happened in a "lesser" game.

Free throws. A player gets fouled after the opening tip of a basketball game, he shoots two fts. With his team down 102-100 the same player gets fouled with the clock showing .01. If you look at it statistically, they both have the same value and its the exact same shot but mentally they are different.

I think that there's a difference in thought process, some thinks that if a player does great statistically for the first 85% of the game/season then whatever he does the rest of the game/season should not tarnish the total performance.

Others say you can do all of that but if you cant close the deal then what's the use.

Romo should get credit for being a great player but when the pressure is on in do or die situation he needs to continue that great play. I cant remember in any of our season ending losses where I can say "man, Romo torched that team but we still couldnt get a win".

 

[Aurican]

I have no idea what pressure is, I am not a professional athlete nor do I pretend to be one. I am willing to believe in the concept obviously, but not to the point where nonathletic, beer gut fans start handing out pressure scores to each situation as if they had the slightest idea what they were talking about.

A little birdie once told me that throwing a TD on 4th down with your season on the line was a great pressure situation. No doubt you will counter that because it was the Commanders and "only" Week 16, there was less pressure (or something similarly stupid).

Okay so you don't know and are just trolling, I take it you've never heard a coach or player refer to pressure in a playoff game either LOL. And wrong again Miss Cleo I think that TD pass was a pressure situation and he did a great job.

 

[DallasEast]

He's obviously more experienced now but a lot of what we saw with Romo in 06-07 we still see today. Some of the best football I saw him play was after he made his first start vs Carolina in 06. He had a very impressive 5 game stretch in which he outplayed Peyton Manning in the Cowboys win over the Colts. The Colts were 9-0 entering that game and went on to win the SB that year. Romo made 2 of the most clutch throws I ever saw him make when that game was on the line. He hit Fasano with a big 3rd down throw and sealed the game with another big 3rd down completion to Terry Glenn allowing the Cowboys to run down the clock. Four days later vs TB on Thanksgiving he absolutely shredded the Bucs tying a Cowboys franchise record with 5 TD passes. He finished that game with a 148.9 passer rating. After that game I thought Romo had a chance to be a VERY special player. I honestly wouldn't have taken another QB in the league over him at that very moment.

His TD to turnover ratio during that 5 game stretch was 10-3 and the Cowboys record was 4-1 under Romo. I really started thinking the Cowboys hit the power ball with him but his game fell apart after the Thanksgiving day game which started a puzzling pattern of great Novembers and terrible Decembers the next few seasons. After the fumbled snap in the playoffs vs Seattle it sent Romo down a road he hasn't been able to get off of. He looks terrific at times and horrible at other times. We continue to see the impulse throws that get him in trouble and the late game turnovers. It's created a stigma he can't shake. The production has always been there from day one but so have the turnovers. Every season since 06 he has some amazing performances then out of nowhere he has a game that makes you scratch your head especially in the games that matter most. It's the same thing every year with him.

So... the answer is yes he is or no he is not..?

 

[KJJ]

I still disagree. The value of each game is the same. If you lose the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser? Conversely, if you win the first 10 games of the season, are those final six games greater or lesser?

Let's take 2013 Seattle as an example. The Seahawks were 11-1 heading into December and then went 3-2. According to your "lesser" logic, Seattle going 4-0 in September wasn't important, but what it did was allow December to not really matter. Most teams would prefer that path.The urgency to win is the same throughout a 16-game season until a team no longer needs to win. You earmarking certain games as greater or lesser does not make it so to the teams trying to win every one of them (or at least enough to secure home-field advantage throughout the playoffs).

San Francisco was the team you devalued with your lesser logic. Not saying you called them a lesser team, but beating them didn't mean as much because it happened in a "lesser" game.

When you have a 16 game season any loss whether it be in week 1 or in week 12 can come back to haunt you. As the season winds down the pressure mounts because everything has taken shape at that point. At the start of a season no one knows how many wins it's going to take to win their division or to secure a wildcard spot. A season is like a game you're not going to lose a game in the first quarter but you can lose the game in the 4th quarter. The pressure starts to mount late in games and late in the season. You can have a poor Sept and recover with 3 months left in the season but hard to recover from a poor Dec when you're in the home stretch. It's not how you start a race it's how you finish. Finishing strong is how teams peak for the playoffs. It's more important to be playing well late than early. The 07 Cowboys were fantastic for 12 weeks of the season but losing games late sent the team into a tailspin that resulted in a one and done.

As for devaluing SF it was a week 2 game and you saw yourself that losing that game didn't negatively impact their season with 14 games to go. Had the Cowboys been matched up with them in week 14 and pulled the game out it may have changed the course of both teams season. The Cowboys looked like the better team after week 2 but it was very clear by Dec who the better team was. Teams are establishing their identity early in the season which is another reason early losses can be over come once a team hits it's stride later on. I would rather start slow and finish strong that's how teams end up in the SB. If you're going to win the SB you have to get on a roll in Dec because losing games then will get you knocked off come playoff time.

 

[KJJ]

So... the answer is yes he is or no he is not..?

You had my answer in my response to Casmith. I expounded on it in my reply to you he's the same QB today we saw back in 06-07. Same production same issues.

 

[DallasEast]

You had my answer in my response to Casmith. I expounded on it in my reply to you he's the same QB today we saw back in 06-07. Same production same issues.

Thanks.

 

[percyhoward]

Others say you can do all of that but if you can't close the deal then what's the use.
.

What's the use of a 95-110 rating when your team turns it into a 4-10 record?