Madden NFL 10 Superbowl Video: Cowboys vs. Titans

[fannypack]

You still have a choice.

You could also complain that Monday Night Football is on ESPN rather than ABC. But you have the choice not to watch it.

The company/channel that pays for the rights is betting that it's not important enough of a choice for you to not buy the game or watch it on their channel. That's why they pay the big bucks.

Not a fair or accurate comparison.

The reason why I won't care if it's ABC or ESPN is there is virtually no difference outside of commentators and presentation.

The actual content that is displayed is controlled by and focused on two football teams. A fair comparison would be to say one game is in HD and one is in SD, but it's still not much different, our overall experience isn't impacted by who is broadcasting but rather who is playing the game.

If I'm a subscriber who doesn't have NFL network and a game is on TV I have real choices. I can go to a family members, I can purchase the channel from the cable company or I can hop online and find it.

I can't find NFL 2k10 at my friends house, I can't find it on the internet, I can't play it, AT ALL.

That's not a REAL choice.

 

[peplaw06]

Not a fair or accurate comparison.

Nonsense.

The reason why I won't care if it's ABC or ESPN is there is virtually no difference outside of commentators and presentation.

That's just a matter of opinion. I might think that there's virtually no difference between the 2k series and the Madden series. I guarantee you that the less rabid gamers/non-football fans of the world don't care which game is made.

The actual content that is displayed is controlled by and focused on two football teams. A fair comparison would be to say one game is in HD and one is in SD, but it's still not much different, our overall experience isn't impacted by who is broadcasting but rather who is playing the game.

If I'm a subscriber who doesn't have NFL network and a game is on TV I have real choices. I can go to a family members, I can purchase the channel from the cable company or I can hop online and find it.

I can't find NFL 2k10 at my friends house, I can't find it on the internet, I can't play it, AT ALL.

That's not a REAL choice.

It's exactly the same.

I might like ABC's broadcast team, or sideline reporter, or their graphics/music better. I might not have cable, and only over-the-air broadcast channels, so I can't even get an ESPN signal. Either way you cannot find it on ABC AT ALL.

You don't have a choice of what network you watch. You either watch the game where it is available or you don't. You don't have a choice which football video game you play. You just have the choice of whether to play the one available to you or not.

 

[fannypack]

Nonsense.

That's just a matter of opinion. I might think that there's virtually no difference between the 2k series and the Madden series. I guarantee you that the less rabid gamers/non-football fans of the world don't care which game is made.

It's exactly the same.

I might like ABC's broadcast team, or sideline reporter, or their graphics/music better. I might not have cable, and only over-the-air broadcast channels, so I can't even get an ESPN signal. Either way you cannot find it on ABC AT ALL.

You don't have a choice of what network you watch. You either watch the game where it is available or you don't. You don't have a choice which football video game you play. You just have the choice of whether to play the one available to you or not.

You're taking this way too far. You knew when I said choice that not only did I not mean it literally, but that I was trying to drive home a very clear and distinct point. You countered that point by giving a comparison or analogy that doesn't fit what I'm trying to debate here.

You saying that I cannot find it on ABC AT ALL is like me telling you that I cannot find the football game at GAMESTOP, but I can still head on over to Wal-Mart and pick it up.

You're saying I do have a choice, when in fact the only two options for authentic updated NFL football game is Madden or no Madden. What I'm saying is, that's not what I'd call a real choice, it's an all or nothing viewpoint.

I guarantee you that when the day comes where you quite literally have no other venues of watching a Cowboys game (Internet, friends, DVD's, bars) you will see my point.

 

[casmith07]

The PC community for Madden is simply outstanding. The things they've done with Madden 08 (since EA didn't release 09 for PC) are just incredible. The fact that EA has taken a big steaming crap on the PC side of things is pretty disheartening... but given they just continue to put out the same game every year, maybe it's not that big of a loss.

If you've ever played Madden PC and know how to implement the stuff from footballfreaks.com, then you know it's the only thing that makes the game worth playing.

for those that don't know, footballfreaks.com brings up a malware warning on my browser...

is there another site that has this stuff we can check out for Madden PC?

 

[casmith07]

You're taking this way too far. You knew when I said choice that not only did I not mean it literally, but that I was trying to drive home a very clear and distinct point. You countered that point by giving a comparison or analogy that doesn't fit what I'm trying to debate here.

You saying that I cannot find it on ABC AT ALL is like me telling you that I cannot find the football game at GAMESTOP, but I can still head on over to Wal-Mart and pick it up.

You're saying I do have a choice, when in fact the only two options for authentic updated NFL football game is Madden or no Madden. What I'm saying is, that's not what I'd call a real choice, it's an all or nothing viewpoint.

I guarantee you that when the day comes where you quite literally have no other venues of watching a Cowboys game (Internet, friends, DVD's, bars) you will see my point.

Your logic is flawed. Peplaw (which I'm guessing is short for Pepperdine Law based on looking at how he argues) knows what he's talking about.

 

[fannypack]

Your logic is flawed. Peplaw (which I'm guessing is short for Pepperdine Law based on looking at how he argues) knows what he's talking about.

You obviously haven't taken the time to read what I've said. If you have, maybe you can explain my flawed logic rather than merely pointing out that it's flawed.

I'm not arguing that it's a choice based on the actual definition of the word "Choice".

I'm saying that you have no other CHOICES. It's Madden or no other authentic football game. People will tell you that that right there is not a real Choice.

Step off the Madden soapbox. This isn't an argument about which game may be superior, it's an argument over the exclusivity that EA Sports has with the NFL and our inability as consumers to have more options and consequently, forcing Madden to raise the bar every year. Hell, you should be happy about something like that.

 

[fannypack]

I just came up with an analogy which might help further my point to those incapable of seeing it.

I'm locked in an 8x8 box. I have no source of food, just concrete walls. I'm given raw horse butt to live off of.

I have a choice to make, now don't I? Do I eat the horse butt, or do I die of starvation?

That's the kind of comparison I'm making here. For a lot of people, football is a necessity, a football game is a necessity. Otherwise, why would I be wasting my time here on a football forum debating such a thing? Obviously you love football.

From a business standpoint, I can see the points made. The majority of the people ARE going to buy Madden, because it's the only horse out there. That has never been the main point of my argument. My main point has been that us as consumers have NO CHOICE outside of Madden for an authentic football game. It's Madden or nothing. Are you guys really having a hard time getting this?

 

[Kilyin]

for those that don't know, footballfreaks.com brings up a malware warning on my browser...

is there another site that has this stuff we can check out for Madden PC?

yeah my bad, was going from memory. it's football-freaks.com...

 

[peplaw06]

You're taking this way too far. You knew when I said choice that not only did I not mean it literally, but that I was trying to drive home a very clear and distinct point. You countered that point by giving a comparison or analogy that doesn't fit what I'm trying to debate here.

What??? You're first post was complaining about EA Sports, taking away your freedom of CHOICE!! I don't know how you couldn't have been literal there.

You saying that I cannot find it on ABC AT ALL is like me telling you that I cannot find the football game at GAMESTOP, but I can still head on over to Wal-Mart and pick it up.

No it's not. The game on ABC is not the same as the game on ESPN. One copy of a video game is identical to another copy of the video game.

Why do you think at the end of football broadcasts, the announcer states that "any rebroadcast of the game without the express, written consent of ESPN, or the NFL is prohibited??" And why do you think that ESPN has to secure rights from the original broadcast (no matter what channel it's on) to do their highlights package? Why do you think ESPN has to attribute where the highlight comes from? It's because the broadcast is a copyrighted product.

If the broadcasts were all the same, they wouldn't do all of that. All the networks would broadcast every football game, and there wouldn't be one that got mostly AFC games and one with mostly NFC games.

You're saying I do have a choice, when in fact the only two options for authentic updated NFL football game is Madden or no Madden. What I'm saying is, that's not what I'd call a real choice, it's an all or nothing viewpoint.

You may not LIKE the choice, but it's still a choice. And it's something that is common with the NFL. They give exclusive licenses all the time. Reebok has the exclusive license to make NFL jerseys. So if for some odd reason you REALLY hated Reebok or their designs or fabrics, and didn't want to buy them, guess what? You're not able to go buy a Nike NFL jersey. But it doesn't mean you have to buy the jerseys.

I guarantee you that when the day comes where you quite literally have no other venues of watching a Cowboys game (Internet, friends, DVD's, bars) you will see my point.

Why would you EVER think that this would happen?

I just came up with an analogy which might help further my point to those incapable of seeing it.

I'm locked in an 8x8 box. I have no source of food, just concrete walls. I'm given raw horse butt to live off of.

I have a choice to make, now don't I? Do I eat the horse butt, or do I die of starvation?

That's the kind of comparison I'm making here. For a lot of people, football is a necessity, a football game is a necessity. Otherwise, why would I be wasting my time here on a football forum debating such a thing?

Are you saying you'll die if you don't get to play NFL 2k10?

You have some issues. We need to get you help.

Awful analogy.

Obviously you love football.

Yes, I love football. But I'm able to separate whether or not I get to play a certain TYPE of video game from life and death.

From a business standpoint, I can see the points made. The majority of the people ARE going to buy Madden, because it's the only horse out there. That has never been the main point of my argument. My main point has been that us as consumers have NO CHOICE outside of Madden for an authentic football game. It's Madden or nothing. Are you guys really having a hard time getting this?

Again, you may not like the choice, but it's still a choice. I didn't play video games at all when I was in college. That was by choice.

And guess what... it's a choice that you're faced with ALL THE TIME if you're a fan of the NFL.

 

[PBJTime]

Man, this has taken an awfully strange turn. Some people like to debate semantics, that's fine. The real issue here is that there is only one choice of an NFL game to play. That is bad, because EA doesn't have to improve their game by much at all every year. They can just repackage last years game, with a few tweaks and call it new, knowing that most football fans will buy it, having no other alternative. (Save me the argument that not buying is an alternative.) Of course that is a choice, but that is not the issue here. I think that's clear.

Again, the issue I have is that this is the only choice of NFL game to play. Arguing whether I have the choice of playing (purchasing) or not playing (not purchasing) is sort of a red herring.

 

[peplaw06]

Man, this has taken an awfully strange turn. Some people like to debate semantics, that's fine. The real issue here is that there is only one choice of an NFL game to play. That is bad, because EA doesn't have to improve their game by much at all every year. They can just repackage last years game, with a few tweaks and call it new, knowing that most football fans will buy it, having no other alternative. (Save me the argument that not buying is an alternative.) Of course that is a choice, but that is not the issue here. I think that's clear.

I asked this very question to an attorney from EA when the exclusive license first hit. Of course, he gave me the company line answer.... but it's pretty easy to see that the game has changed from when they got the license. The video that starts this thread shows that clearly. And the video is about one of the biggest changes.

But if you really think about it, that shouldn't be a concern. The NFL chose to give EA the exclusive license. It merged the biggest sport in America with the biggest sports video game ever. If EA suddenly started putting out a crap game, they would lose exclusivity and tons of money. It's in the NFL's interest and EA's interest to put out the best game they possibly can and to make it better each year.

Is the game going to be completely different from year to year? Of course not. That's never been the standard for a game franchise that comes out every year. Every few years they have a new game engine, but that sticks around with some tweaking done for a handful of years.

Again, the issue I have is that this is the only choice of NFL game to play. Arguing whether I have the choice of playing (purchasing) or not playing (not purchasing) is sort of a red herring.

Your issue then is with the NFL, not with EA. The NFL is the one handing out exclusive licenses.

 

[Kilyin]

I asked this very question to an attorney from EA when the exclusive license first hit. Of course, he gave me the company line answer.... but it's pretty easy to see that the game has changed from when they got the license. The video that starts this thread shows that clearly. And the video is about one of the biggest changes.

Actually, looking at the video of the gameplay itself, there isn't much difference (if any) from the graphics of Madden 2002/2003...

I'm assuming that's the console version in the video, but I know for a fact that EA has done very little, if anything at all to the game graphically over the past 6-7 years. That's a shame because there are some powerhouse computers out there these days.

 

[peplaw06]

Actually, looking at the video of the gameplay itself, there isn't much difference (if any) from the graphics of Madden 2002/2003...

I'm assuming that's the console version in the video, but I know for a fact that EA has done very little, if anything at all to the game graphically over the past 6-7 years. That's a shame because there are some powerhouse computers out there these days.

If you can't see a difference between that gameplay and the gameplay of the first Madden that came out on 360, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Kilyin]

If you can't see a difference between that gameplay and the gameplay of the first Madden that came out on 360, I don't know what to tell you.

I just recently bought a 360, so I can't comment there. Admittedly EA is definitely focused more on the consoles now than the PC, which isn't a stretch from any other game publisher.

Therein lies the problem. I'm judging based on the PC version, which I've played since around 2002. PC has completely eclipsed the graphical capability of a 360, and the gap is only going to get larger.. yet EA does absolutely nothing to acknowledge that.

What I'm telling you is aside from a couple of tweaks, I'm looking at the same game I played 7 years ago when I install a copy of Madden 08 for the PC.

That's graphically, luckily there are some people out there who can modify rosters and even game logic enough to make Madden worth playing on a PC.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I like the new attitude Ian Cummings has brought to EA i think this years madden is going to be the best Madden yet and it will finally catch up to 2k5

If you listen to interviews with the guy it's all about gameplay now when in recent years madden has been all about the gimmicks they could print on the cover to sell you the same game over and over

I have a confession.

I haven't purchased a new football game since ESPN 2K5. Every offseason, I do my best to update the 2k5 rosters for the Cowboys and all Cowboy opponents for that season.

Sad, huh?

 

[Four]

I could have done without the live action commentary, I don't care what these computer dorks have to say, just show me the game.

It does look nice, please tell me they will actually be releasing this one on PC?

I don't and won't own a console.

 

[Ultra Warrior]

Looking in the background during those interviews, it appears they finally added a more legit super bowl celebration.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. That's been a gripe of mine. If you take all the time to complete a Season/Playoffs & then Win the Super Bowl, at least add some great cut-scenes at the end so you feel like you Won something IMPORTANT instead of just another game.

 

[fannypack]

Man, this has taken an awfully strange turn. Some people like to debate semantics, that's fine. The real issue here is that there is only one choice of an NFL game to play. That is bad, because EA doesn't have to improve their game by much at all every year. They can just repackage last years game, with a few tweaks and call it new, knowing that most football fans will buy it, having no other alternative. (Save me the argument that not buying is an alternative.) Of course that is a choice, but that is not the issue here. I think that's clear.

Again, the issue I have is that this is the only choice of NFL game to play. Arguing whether I have the choice of playing (purchasing) or not playing (not purchasing) is sort of a red herring.

Thank you, I'm glad someone finally got the point I was trying to make rather than argue semantics, as you said.

If you can't come into a discussion and put your personal tastes aside than there is really no point in arguing with anyone. Because no matter what, you'll see others as "EA Haters" and defend them til the bitter end.

I'm not necessarily an EA Hater. I'm just of the opinion that when you give no other alternatives to something as huge as an authentic football game, you hurt the consumer. You've backed consumers into a wall and more or less told them "If you want to play licensed football, play Madden, or nothing" and therefore your choice is to play Madden, or NOTHING.

Obviously, if you want real teams with real players you have to play Madden.

My analogy wasn't comparing real life to a video game. The argument was, no matter how much you don't want to eat that horse, if you want to survive, you have to eat it.

If you want to play a real football game, no matter if the game has improved from last year or not, you've gotta play Madden. The competition has been removed and EA holds the keys.

So instead of sitting there and lecturing me on what a choice is, why not do the logical thing and try and realize that I'm making a point here, an obvious one, THERE ARE NO OTHER AUTHENTIC FOOTBALL GAMES DUE TO EA/NFL.

I don't care who is responsible, the NFL or EA. It's bad for consumers. And you're really foolish to believe that someone isn't going to watch an NFL game due to who is broadcasting it. Very, very foolish. I can concede there is a difference, but that difference isn't going to stop 99% of football fans from watching a game they want to watch. Apparently you fall into the 1% range (Peplaw).

So suppose I like the way ABC covers a game better than say, the NFL network. That preference is fine, that's a matter of taste. But it almost in no way impacts the GAME itself. The teams control the kind of football you're going to watch, the quality of the game.

There are no other alternatives to Madden, so whether I dislike that feature, or this feature, I cannot 'choose' another licensed football game because, guess what? There are none. I think there is hope for Madden, now that Ian and Josh are on the team (HC 09 guys).

You continue to argue the semantics, I'll continue to argue the issues that people really care about.

 

[PBJTime]

I asked this very question to an attorney from EA when the exclusive license first hit. Of course, he gave me the company line answer.... but it's pretty easy to see that the game has changed from when they got the license. The video that starts this thread shows that clearly. And the video is about one of the biggest changes.

But if you really think about it, that shouldn't be a concern. The NFL chose to give EA the exclusive license. It merged the biggest sport in America with the biggest sports video game ever. If EA suddenly started putting out a crap game, they would lose exclusivity and tons of money. It's in the NFL's interest and EA's interest to put out the best game they possibly can and to make it better each year.

Is the game going to be completely different from year to year? Of course not. That's never been the standard for a game franchise that comes out every year. Every few years they have a new game engine, but that sticks around with some tweaking done for a handful of years.

Your issue then is with the NFL, not with EA. The NFL is the one handing out exclusive licenses.

I'm positive that competition would spur more changes than the current setup.

Again, this is a side issue, a diversion. I was pointing out my issue, not who it was with.

My overall thinking is that exclusivity is a negative thing in this instance. Competition would only help things. The problem with the current situation is that EA is essentially, legally allowed to have a monopoly on NFL games. When have monopolies ever been good for consumers? But, I am getting sidetracked here.

I think you're well aware of the ideas in this thread. You seem like an intelligent person.

In the end, there's virtually nothing any of us can do about it. We just have to suck it up and play Madden or find something else to do.

 

[fannypack]

I'm positive that competition would spur more changes than the current setup.

Again, this is a side issue, a diversion. I was pointing out my issue, not who it was with.

My overall thinking is that exclusivity is a negative thing in this instance. Competition would only help things. The problem with the current situation is that EA is essentially, legally allowed to have a monopoly on NFL games. When have monopolies ever been good for consumers? But, I am getting sidetracked here.

I think you're well aware of the ideas in this thread. You seem like an intelligent person.

In the end, there's virtually nothing any of us can do about it. We just have to suck it up and play Madden or find something else to do.

Hey, we can always play tetherball. It utilizes a ball, and hey, it's close enough to football to satiate me! That's the choice I'll be making!