Manny Lawson Vs. Bobby Carpenter

[proline]

This link http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-combine022806&prov=yhoo&type=lgns has Lawson at 241, not 250.

People cried all season that BP was doing the wrong thing with Ware by making him have to play LB. He spent the entire season learning to play WOLB. Now it's time to move him to SOLB, just so we can teach somebody else to convert from a 4-3 DE to a WOLB in the NFL???

I'm not saying that it COULDN'T work. Just that it seems to be a more efficient use of a draft pick to get someone who already knows how to play in a position of need that can also rush the QB, than to get someone who can rush the QB but would have to LEARN to play in the position of need (LB). If Lawson turns out to only be a situational pass-rushing OLB, the #18 pick is a pretty high price to pay for a part-time player.

 

[Clove]

A.J. Hawk
2005: 121 total tackles,16.5 TFLs, 9 sacks.

Anthony Schlegel
2005: 82 total tackles,7 TFLs, 2 sacks.

Bobby Carpenter
2005: 49 tackles, 10 TFLs, 8 sacks

I'm starting to think overrated. Carpenter was Outside like Hawk was. I guess they never ran the ball to Carpenters side. Over-rated to me, I'll take the stud that can be all over the field making plays.

 

[JonCJG]

I saw Ware play on occasion at the SOLB position last year and that's why I mention it.

The question was who you would take Lawson or Carpenter if they were both there at 18. Just answering the question PROLINE. Lawson has more upside IMO, so I would take him. Simple.

 

[Clove]

He's supposed to be a pure linebacker, yet his stats are awful for a linebacker, and great for a defensive end like Lawson.

 

[50cent]

He's supposed to be a pure linebacker, yet his stats are awful for a linebacker, and great for a defensive end like Lawson.

Big 10 teams are notorius for running the ball between the Ts and the fact that Carpenter played DE as well hurt his tackle total. He wasn't an everydown LB. Hes a beast, I won't disrespect him on his talent, but I'm starting to lean toward the Lawson/Wimbley crowd.

 

[Rockytop6]

I would be very happy with either of them.

 

[MiStar]

Total stats fail to take many things into account, the main thing being # number of snaps played. The telling stat in terms of production is tackles/sacks/TFL per snap. Of course, I have no idea where such stats are to be found, but if someone knows of a site with that information, I would be most grateful.

Bobby Carpenter, in addition to sitting out most of the Illinois game, missed the last two games of the season. On top of that was playing on a team that absolutely dominated it's opponents in time of possesion and had the number 1 rushing defense in the nation.

NC State, on the other hand, never really dominated on the field like their talent would seem to indicate, although I will admit that I didn't watch more than a handful of NC State games.

If I were to make a rough estimate, I would say that that Lawson played 1.2 as many snaps as Bobby Carpenter. Which means that Cowboy_love_4ever's stats would be thus adjusted using a 1:1.25 ratio are:


Bobby carpenter (6'3 255) (roughly projected stats if he had played as many snaps as Lawson)
2005: 61 tackles, 12.5 TFLs, 10 sacks , ? QB hurries, ? FF

Manny Lawson 6'6 245 (4.41 40)
2005: 58 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 10.5 sacks, 14 QB hurries, 1 FF

As you can see, their stats are very comparable, with Lawson having the edge in TFL.

P.S. A question for any NC State fans: Did Lawson acquire most of his sacks/pressures/TFL coming of the edge, or is he more of a multidimensional passrusher. The one thing that bothered me about DeMarcus Ware was his reliance on pure footspeed to make plays. The vast majority of his sacks were on plays where he simply outran the Tackle to the quarterback.

 

[jackrussell]

Bobby Carpenter
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 255 | 40-Time: 4.58

Strengths:
Has excellent size


Manny Lawson
Height: 6-6 | Weight: 245 | 40-Time: 4.59

Weaknesses:
Vastly undersized


Kamerion Wimbley
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 255 | 40-Time: 4.65

Weaknesses:
Undersized and lacks bulk

So Carpenter is 255 and has EXCELLENT size, Wimbley is 255(plus an inch taller) and UNDERSIZED.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

 

[alancdc]

Don't know if anyone watched many State games this year, but as a long suffering State fan I will tell you that Lawson, while a great freak athlete, is not a first round pick IMO. He gets cought up inside and gives up huge running plays outside, and is only getting this type of consideration because of his height and speed. I HATE Ohio State, but Carpenter played against FAR better competition and had he played in Raleigh against WF, Duke, UNC, what would his stats have looked like. You tell me how in the world State had 2 top 15 picks at DE, and a solid early 2nd rounder at D-line, McCargo, and their D was average in so many games. LAWSON WILL BE A BUST.

 

[junk]

He's supposed to be a pure linebacker, yet his stats are awful for a linebacker, and great for a defensive end like Lawson.

Did you watch either of them play?

 

[Clove]

First off, an OLB should have way more tackles than what he posted, sorry to tell you all.

Second off, I believe if Lawson played in a 3-4 system, his numbers would be doubled, and throw on 5 more sacks.

The only thing Carpenter has going for him is his name. A.J.Hawk managed to get almost 3 times the tackles and 1 more sack. Because of Hawk, Carpenter has managed to make a name for himself.

IMO, Carpenter is a dime a dozen. WE already have a 6'3 fast true LB in Burnett. Now we need someone who can change a game.. Someone who can just flat out make plays. And i'm sorry, the playmaker on that Ohio State football defensive LB core was A.J.Hawk, no questions.

 

[junk]

First off, an OLB should have way more tackles than what he posted, sorry to tell you all.

Second off, I believe if Lawson played in a 3-4 system, his numbers would be doubled, and throw on 5 more sacks.

The only thing Carpenter has going for him is his name. A.J.Hawk managed to get almost 3 times the tackles and 1 more sack. Because of Hawk, Carpenter has managed to make a name for himself.

IMO, Carpenter is a dime a dozen. WE already have a 6'3 fast true LB in Burnett. Now we need someone who can change a game.. Someone who can just flat out make plays. And i'm sorry, the playmaker on that Ohio State football defensive LB core was A.J.Hawk, no questions.

Did you watch either of them play?

 

[Clove]

Bobby carpenter
2005: 49 tackles, 10 TFLs, 8 sacks

Chad Greenway
156 tackles. 10 TFLs, 2 sacks

Demeco Ryans
76 Tackles 12 TFL, 5 sacks.

Spencer Havner (6'3 235 - 4.56 *i'm sure he can add 15 pds)
125 tackles 8.5 TFL, 1 2004: stats (couldn't find 2005 stats)

Roger McIntosh
2005: 89 tackles, 10 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble

Gerris Wilkinson 6'2 234
2005: 85 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks, 2 interceptions, 2 pass breakups

James Anderson
2005: 82 tackles, 8.5 TFL, 3 sacks, 2 interceptions, 6 pass breakups, 1 forced fumble

Thomas Howard
2005: 85 tackles 7 TFL's (-30 yards) , 3 sacks (-21 yards) , 1 INT (20 yards),7 PD and 3 QB Hurries

My point is, you all are hollering about a true Linebacker, and if you are wanting that, then their are several out there better than Carpenter IMO. He's getting his fame on Hawk alone. His numbers doesn't match up as a TRUE Linebacker. He has great numbers as a DE, which would make him a TWEENER.

I will give him one thing though, he did have 94 tackles last year which is what an OLB is supposed to get, but like I said, Lawson is a game changer, and that's what I would want. Personally, I'd rather pass on both of them and drop out of the 1st and pick up more picks, and grab either Jason Allen/Cromartie/Bullocks or Wimbley. If you don't want another tweener, then you can get Gerris Wilkinson later on in the draft who posted up great numbers and a pure OLB.(The Cowboys did have an interview with Wilkinson)

 

[VACowboy]

Did you watch either of them play?

I watched them both multiple times and Carpenter stuck out. His stats are no measure of his ability, especially comparing them to Hawk's. They were asked to do vastly different things on the OSU defense. Personally, if we absolutely have to pick at #18 I may go with Bunkley. My choice would be to trade down and take Wimbley, tho.

 

[junk]

I watched them both multiple times and Carpenter stuck out. His stats are no measure of his ability, especially comparing them to Hawk's. They were asked to do vastly different things on the OSU defense. Personally, if we absolutely have to pick at #18 I may go with Bunkley. My choice would be to trade down and take Wimbley, tho.

Thats the point, I am trying to hammer home, but I keep getting ignored and stats thrown my way.

 

[junk]

Bobby carpenter
2005: 49 tackles, 10 TFLs, 8 sacks

Chad Greenway
156 tackles. 10 TFLs, 2 sacks

Demeco Ryans
76 Tackles 12 TFL, 5 sacks.

Spencer Havner (6'3 235 - 4.56 *i'm sure he can add 15 pds)
125 tackles 8.5 TFL, 1 2004: stats (couldn't find 2005 stats)

Roger McIntosh
2005: 89 tackles, 10 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble

Gerris Wilkinson 6'2 234
2005: 85 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks, 2 interceptions, 2 pass breakups

James Anderson
2005: 82 tackles, 8.5 TFL, 3 sacks, 2 interceptions, 6 pass breakups, 1 forced fumble

Thomas Howard
2005: 85 tackles 7 TFL's (-30 yards) , 3 sacks (-21 yards) , 1 INT (20 yards),7 PD and 3 QB Hurries

My point is, you all are hollering about a true Linebacker, and if you are wanting that, then their are several out there better than Carpenter IMO. He's getting his fame on Hawk alone. His numbers doesn't match up as a TRUE Linebacker. He has great numbers as a DE, which would make him a TWEENER.

Did you watch any of those guys play? There is a lot more to the game than stats.

For all your harping about Carpenter being overshadowed by Hawk, what about Lawson being overshadowed by Williams? No doubt Hawk is probably a better backer, but there is no doubt that Williams is a better lineman than Lawson.

Chad Greenway is physically unimpressive backer who has a tendency to run around blocks.

Demeco Ryans is undersized to play a 3-4 OLB.

Havner isn't half the backer that Carpenter is.

Thomas Howard is a prototypical WLB.

Part of the desire for Carpenter is that he projects very favorably to a 3-4 SOLB position.

Watch some games and dig your head out of the stat book.

 

[VACowboy]

Actually, considering the respective amount of time Carpenter and Hawk each spent rushing the passer, I think Carpenter's 8 is more impressive than Hawk's 9.

Carpenter played every LB position on the field as well as put his hand on the ground as a DE. Perfect fit for SOLB in the 3-4.

 

[Clove]

Did you watch any of those guys play? There is a lot more to the game than stats.

For all your harping about Carpenter being overshadowed by Hawk, what about Lawson being overshadowed by Williams? No doubt Hawk is probably a better backer, but there is no doubt that Williams is a better lineman than Lawson.

Chad Greenway is physically unimpressive backer who has a tendency to run around blocks.

Demeco Ryans is undersized to play a 3-4 OLB.

Havner isn't half the backer that Carpenter is.

Thomas Howard is a prototypical WLB.

Part of the desire for Carpenter is that he projects very favorably to a 3-4 SOLB position.

Watch some games and dig your head out of the stat book.

I know you have a love affair with Carpenter, but the guy was a Robin to Batman period.

Shanle had 45 tackles and James had 93. But I guess stats don't matter. Shanle is our answer at ILB because stats don't matter. And I won't take cheap shots at you and stoop to that level, just stop the love affair with Carpenter.

 

[junk]

I know you have a love affair with Carpenter, but the guy was a Robin to Batman period.

Shanle had 45 tackles and James had 93. But I guess stats don't matter. Shanle is our answer at ILB because stats don't matter. And I won't take cheap shots at you and stoop to that level, just stop the love affair with Carpenter.

So, you didn't watch? Way to make vague assumptions based on stats.

That is all I am pointing out here.

Carpenter is a great player that fills a need. Is he the best value at 18? Maybe, maybe not.

Lawson is a good player too. Is he the best guy to fill the SOLB role? Maybe, maybe not. I personally feel he is much better suited to the weakside role currently filled by Ware.

However, to say Carpenter is no good by looking at the stats and comparing them to Hawk and a bunch of other LBers without ever watching them play is extremely short sighted.

If anything Carpenter is flying under the radar (except around here).

 

[junk]

Actually, considering the respective amount of time Carpenter and Hawk each spent rushing the passer, I think Carpenter's 8 is more impressive than Hawk's 9.

Carpenter played every LB position on the field as well as put his hand on the ground as a DE. Perfect fit for SOLB in the 3-4.

But he didn't have as many tackles as Hawk therefore he must suck.