Marinelli's conservative bend don't break defense is gone

[G2]

Nothing could be truer about the Flex. That was actually the first "just do your job" defense. It was a struggle for some players because Landry tried to coach instinct and what they were seeing out and staying where he wanted them. In his system, the MLB would lead the team in tackles every season by design. We've had some in the past 20 years that CB's led the team in tackles. If one of your DB's is leading the D in tackles, you don't have a D.

A garbage defensive line can make a secondary look awful.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nothing could be truer about the Flex. That was actually the first "just do your job" defense. It was a struggle for some players because Landry tried to coach instinct and what they were seeing out and staying where he wanted them. In his system, the MLB would lead the team in tackles every season by design. We've had some in the past 20 years that CB's led the team in tackles. If one of your DB's is leading the D in tackles, you don't have a D.

Parcells got that under control to a certain extent but other then that, it's been a struggle for most of the rest of the time. Direction is and has been a problem with this team for a long time. It's true.

 

[CouchCoach]

I was just thinking. We haven't drafted a relevant and early round DT since Russell Maryland. And he wasn't All World either.

Wasn't Jerry a freaking lineman? You'd think he'd appreciate a good DT.

Jimmy was a DT, Booger was a OG. Booger didn't like DT's much. And the funny part of that was the O was really the butt of that '64 Champs team, it was all about the D. They went 5 games in a row without giving up a point and set the scoring record up until that point. They gave up 64 points in 11 games.

The interesting part of that is they were a mirror image of Jimmy's D's with Wannstedt, all about speed and swarming to the ball and they were considered undersized. In the Cotton Bowl that year, the Huskers OL outweighed them by an average of 30 lbs and they could only muster 7 points to the Hogs 10.

 

[CouchCoach]

Parcells got that under control to a certain extent but other then that, it's been a struggle for most of the rest of the time. Direction is and has been a problem with this team for a long time. It's true.

You can't be a show dog and a working dog at the same time. Booger thinks it's all about the O and stars and that old saying "offense fills seats" is his mantra. He's a follow the ball GM and having the triplets as the focal point of the 90's misleads him. I don't know if it ever registered to him how good that D was and that was the main reason that the team was as good as it was. That was what Johnson set out to build. Irvin was already there, Aikman was a must pick and Emmitt was a fall back after losing Francis to CIN.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You can't be a show dog and a working dog at the same time. Booger thinks it's all about the O and stars and that old saying "offense fills seats" is his mantra. He's a follow the ball GM and having the triplets as the focal point of the 90's misleads him. I don;t know if it ever registered to him how good that D was and that was the main reason that the team was as good as it was. That was what Johnson set out to build. Irvin was already there, Aikman was a must pick and Emmitt was a fall back after losing Francis to CIN.

Well, full disclosure, I don't believe it was the D in the 90s either. I believe it was the O and their ability to control tempo and force their will on virtually everybody. That D was very good if they could play the style of ball they wanted to. However, they became back to earth a little bit if they had to be on the field too long. They weren't built for that and it's understandable. But over all, I agree with you. I do believe that Jerry undervalues the Defense. I don't know if that's a result of the 90s teams or something else but I definitely agree, it's an issue.

 

[cern]

Nothing could be truer about the Flex. That was actually the first "just do your job" defense. It was a struggle for some players because Landry tried to coach instinct and what they were seeing out and staying where he wanted them. In his system, the MLB would lead the team in tackles every season by design. We've had some in the past 20 years that CB's led the team in tackles. If one of your DB's is leading the D in tackles, you don't have a D.

the flex was great until the late, great don Coryell figured out how to beat it. just throw on first down. the flex was always designed to stop the run on first down. terry Metcalf, mel grey, and jim hart exposed the weakness and other teams followed suit. landry refused to change it.

 

[CouchCoach]

Well, full disclosure, I don't believe it was the D in the 90s either. I believe it was the O and their ability to control tempo and force their will on virtually everybody. That D was very good if they could play the style of ball they wanted to. However, they became back to earth a little bit if they had to be on the field too long. They weren't built for that and it's understandable. But over all, I agree with you. I do believe that Jerry undervalues the Defense. I don't know if that's a result of the 90s teams or something else but I definitely agree, it's an issue.

What that 90's team achieved was the same thing CLE, GB, PIT, MIA and SF had done before them, as well as their 70's team, balance. Those great teams could close out the game with either their O or D and rely equally on both.

Coining that term "triplets" was misleading, there had been many triplets before them but the focus was on team. GB, PIT, MIA, SF and the 70's Cowboys had their triplets but we think of those teams in more of the term "team". That whole putting them in the ROH together was overplay.

I would bet the majority of the owners in the NFL are follow the ball as the majority of fans are. The problem begins when they start assembling the team instead of letting a team builder do it. Hell, let me build my own house, what do you think I am going to focus on, the foundation first? Hell no, the game room, wet bar, kitchen and bedroom, everything else is just filler.

 

[CouchCoach]

the flex was great until the late, great don Coryell figured out how to beat it. just throw on first down. the flex was always designed to stop the run on first down. terry Metcalf, mel grey, and jim hart exposed the weakness and other teams followed suit. landry refused to change it.

I don't think he could any more than Wade Phillips could run a 4/3 D. No matter what one side comes up with, give the other side time and they'll figure out how to counter it.

Walsh came up with the WCO at Stanford out of necessity and it gave the NFL fits for a while. The spread was developed by college HC's because of the lack of OL and at first, HC's like Saban struggled with it but they did figure it out. That's why NFL coaches were going to Tuscaloosa once it started invading the league.

This was the failing of Garrett. He thought he could recreate the 90's and just beat your guys with his guys. He is a smart man but not a creative one and it takes creative to coach in the NFL now and the patience is getting shorter. Sean McVay has gone from Wonderboy to head scratcher in just one season and I'd bet he's only got one more season to prove 2018 wasn't the anomaly.

 

[KMY_Amber]

A garbage defensive line can make a secondary look awful.

Yep, and of course the reverse is true as well.

 

[KMY_Amber]

"Marinelli's conservative bend don't break defense is gone"

Long overdue!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You can't be a show dog and a working dog at the same time.

You can if you wear Duluth Draws Brother!

 

[DuncanIso]

it can't be stressed enough just how terrible Nolan is as a DC. [and a HC]

He just stinks. Anyone that doubts that statement, look up his coaching history.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2015/1/20/7853197/cardinals-mike-nolan-defensive-coordinator-49ers

"In Atlanta, it hasn't been great. They were bad in 2012, even worse in 2013 and the worst in the league this past season. The Falcons allowed the most yards per game, most yards per play and most rushing touchdowns in the league. They were just awful, which is why it's kind of ... surprising to see the Cardinals looking to interview him now."

The only reason he has the DC job is b/c Nolan gave MM an OC job back in 2005, which allowed MM to be the HC in GB the following season.

our ONLY hope is Edwards and Tomsula.

 

[dragon_mikal]

Mike Nolan wasn’t an upgrade guys. Of all the hires this offseason his was the most bleh.

Not excited about it at all.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

I really think the build from inside out is what changes teams once your defensive front is formidable the rest of your defense suddenly starts looking more opportunistic because being able to stop the run and pressure slash sack the passer gives your DB's opportunities to create turnovers. I think for one teams never feared our pass rush this past year because we gave up so many yards on early downs that quick throws would counter act anything we were trying to do. The sad part is this has been this way for years I can remember Phillip Rivers on Thanksgiving literally calling out our defense, and how was coming. I for one am anxious to see a change in philosophy, culture, and draft strategy on defense, I think big bodied DT's are a necessity now a days to stopping the run and having depth on that front is paramount.

 

[JoeKing]

I think we all have to change our mindset with next year's defensive scheme. For year's Marinelli, employed a bend, don't break defense with the Cowboys. Rarely blitzed, forced teams to throw underneath, secondary's biggest job was to prevent the big play. The scheme was based on, offenses needing to drive the entire field and toughening up in the redzone. The scheme wasn't game specific, where it was quite easy for opposing teams to exploit their weaknesses.

In my opinion, this year's defense under Mike Nolan is going to be complete opposite to what Marinelli ran. We should expect to see more of an aggressive scheme, that employs multiple defensive fronts and is game specific. You would think, we would see far more blitzing, more press coverage in hopes of creating more impact defensive plays.

As the front office starts to retool their defense, you would think they build inside out. Fortify the defensive line with players who can play any scheme is first on the list. As for the secondary, they need to target players with high level instincts. Balls should be coming out quicker, which means players need to read and react faster. No more playing their man, but more about being around the football.

Conservative? Like that is a bad thing.

 

[coogrfan]

I want a Defense that swarms the ball and gets after it. Everytime we got a commanding lead I would cringe. He would play that prevent crap. No wonder we never got turn overs..

I'll settle for a D that doesn't cause our O to have to go 80+ yards every time they get the ball.

 

[DuncanIso]

I'll settle for a D that doesn't cause our O to have to go 80+ yards every time they get the ball.

when you look at some of the 2019 D stats, you'd think this was a 12-4 team.

Points allowed 11th
Yards allowed 9th

Passing D yards allowed 10th
Passing D TDs allowed 8th

Rushiing D yards allowed 11th
Rushing D TDs allowed 17th

only gave up 14 rushing TDS. 21 Passing TDs

on paper, this is a good defense.

How did we end up 8-8???

 

[glimmerman]

I'll settle for a D that doesn't cause our O to have to go 80+ yards every time they get the ball.

And a ST. No punt returns at all this year. Except I think one that the coach told Austin to fair catch when he had a lane you or I could have taken it to the house.

 

[charron]

The defensive problems were not due to bend and don't break. it was the boom or bust DT style that killed us. The rush the Gap style of the DT's lead us to a boom or bust defense. There were some plays they made with their penetration but if they missed or get taken off their spot as it happens then the opposing offense killed us up the middle for easy gains.

 

[MapleLeaf]

https://www.ninersnation.com/2015/1/20/7853197/cardinals-mike-nolan-defensive-coordinator-49ers

This is why i am loathe to here people state that Nolan is going to be much better than what we had. I am concerned in believing one person, especially Nolan, can make the difference when his track hasn't proven to be this way.