Maryland to leave ACC for Big 10

[ABQCOWBOY]

Bleeding continues at Big East.
Not that Boise St was going to stay there anyway, but it sounds like they entered into talks with the MWC. Once TCU backed out of their agreement, you knew BSU wouldn't be going there.

Yeah, posted a thread about this. Boise St., BYU and SDSt. are all in talks with MWC to consider the possability of rejoining. That would make the MWC a 12 team conference. MWC is trying to become one of the Super Confrences for consideration.

 

[DFWJC]

Yeah, posted a thread about this. Boise St., BYU and SDSt. are all in talks with MWC to consider the possability of rejoining. That would make the MWC a 12 team conference. MWC is trying to become one of the Super Confrences for consideration.

I keep hearing Super Conference talk here, but if you have a playoff and slots determined by the polls/computers (vs automatic bids to conf champs), doesn't that reduce the need for super conferences? And if you go by conf champs only you have an issue to by leaving out many of the best teams.

In any case, it does look like they are trying to build about 6 very large leagues.

The only way you can have a automatice feeder system inot a playoff AND not fall back into the exclusionary ways of the past would be to have a about 90-110 teams packed into. 6 * 16 =96 almost gets you there. 6 *20 covers all the D-1 teams, I assume. Then split the 20 teams into two divisions in each league to make scheduling work. Six automatic bids and maybe another 6 at large teams. 4 teams get byes...etc.

The Maryland move to the Big Ten was all aboout that Baltimore/Washington TV market combined with a chance for UM to get out from under water. Promises from a very rice Md alum to pump 10s (100s?) of million into the Md program if they join the Big 10 also helped bothg sides. Even the ACC wins here. They add UConn and don't miss a beat. Win-win for everyone.

 

[Diogenes]

Yeah, he was but he was still the best Coach Maryland has had in 50 years.

Even better then Williams IMO. Good guy.

Not really. Gary Williams was the better coach. Lefty was the better recruiter. I've met them both out in public and they are both great guys and I wouldn't hesitate to let either coach and mentor my kids.

 

[Diogenes]

He was, but I place no fault on Driesell for that. If the account of Bias can be believed, it was a one time thing. There was no pattern to it and Bias was already out of the Maryland Program, headed to Boston.

You are right, he was blamed but unfairly I think. He was a good guy and a damn fine coach for Maryland.

Lefty got the shaft. No doubt about it. Some people think Garrett is in way over his head. They don't even know "in way over your head" unless they watched Bob Wade "coach" at Maryland after Lefty's demise.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not really. Gary Williams was the better coach. Lefty was the better recruiter. I've met them both out in public and they are both great guys and I wouldn't hesitate to let either coach and mentor my kids.

Why do you think Williams was better?

I mean, he did win a National Championship so if you base it on that, I could understand the reasoning but that's really the only advantage I can see.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I keep hearing Super Conference talk here, but if you have a playoff and slots determined by the polls/computers (vs automatic bids to conf champs), doesn't that reduce the need for super conferences? And if you go by conf champs only you have an issue to by leaving out many of the best teams.

In any case, it does look like they are trying to build about 6 very large leagues.

The only way you can have a automatice feeder system inot a playoff AND not fall back into the exclusionary ways of the past would be to have a about 90-110 teams packed into. 6 * 16 =96 almost gets you there. 6 *20 covers all the D-1 teams, I assume. Then split the 20 teams into two divisions in each league to make scheduling work. Six automatic bids and maybe another 6 at large teams. 4 teams get byes...etc.

The Maryland move to the Big Ten was all aboout that Baltimore/Washington TV market combined with a chance for UM to get out from under water. Promises from a very rice Md alum to pump 10s (100s?) of million into the Md program if they join the Big 10 also helped bothg sides. Even the ACC wins here. They add UConn and don't miss a beat. Win-win for everyone.

No, it's more then just that. Both programs fit the Academic Profile which is huge for the Big 10. Rutgers is one of the top Research Universities in the Country. They are top 10 among all Universities in the Nation in this regard. This is what the Big 10 is all about. They get tons of money for this and Rutgers only helps that by bringing the average up and pulling their own money to the table. This is huge, bigger even then athletic regard, in the Big 10.

Maryland has recently become the largest research center in the Capital Beltway. What does that mean? In addition to receiving tons of Federal Funding for research, they also are the most highly visible, most influential University and most importantly, the closest University that fits the profile to the money pot, which flows from Washington. Many, many people who control the funding have ties to Maryland by either attending or having family who attend. What does that mean? More Federal Dollars to the Big 10.

It's certainly true that the TV market was an important factor but it is far from the only factor or even the most important one. The Big 10 makes more money from Federal Research then they do off Athletics or TV contracts by far. This is the key driver in their decisions making process IMO.

 

[DFWJC]

No, it's more then just that. Both programs fit the Academic Profile which is huge for the Big 10. Rutgers is one of the top Research Universities in the Country. They are top 10 among all Universities in the Nation in this regard. This is what the Big 10 is all about. They get tons of money for this and Rutgers only helps that by bringing the average up and pulling their own money to the table. This is huge, bigger even then athletic regard, in the Big 10.

Maryland has recently become the largest research center in the Capital Beltway. What does that mean? In addition to receiving tons of Federal Funding for research, they also are the most highly visible, most influential University and most importantly, the closest University that fits the profile to the money pot, which flows from Washington. Many, many people who control the funding have ties to Maryland by either attending or having family who attend. What does that mean? More Federal Dollars to the Big 10.

It's certainly true that the TV market was an important factor but it is far from the only factor or even the most important one. The Big 10 makes more money from Federal Research then they do off Athletics or TV contracts by far. This is the key driver in their decisions making process IMO.

I have plenty of friends that went to both Rutgers and Maryland. I actually like both schools just fine.
But I think you are really overrating their academics. They are fine, but not great. They will for sure be in the middle (at best) of the Big Ten--as they would have been if they were both in the ACC.

Rutgers ranks maybe 60th (68th, actually) in National Research Universities and Maryland (58th) ranked in the middle of all ACC schools in academics....not even remotely in the same league as Duke, Virginia, UNC, Wake Forest, Ga Tech and lower or the same as Pitt, Syracuse, Clemson, etc .

Don't get me wrong, they are plenty good...enough to fit right in with both conferences. That's saying a lot.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Lefty got the shaft. No doubt about it. Some people think Garrett is in way over his head. They don't even know "in way over your head" unless they watched Bob Wade "coach" at Maryland after Lefty's demise.

Bob Wade

What a total disaster that was. It makes the Mark Duffner football hire look like sheer brilliance.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Talked about UCONN to ACC earlier, now hearing that Georgetown and St Jors might be moving to ACC as well.

There has been some speculation that Boston College doesnt want UConn to join the ACC because they view them as competition in their area and they want it all to themselves.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Why do you think Williams was better?

I mean, he did win a National Championship so if you base it on that, I could understand the reasoning but that's really the only advantage I can see.

The Gary being the better coach and Lefty better at recruiting thing seems to be just accepted as common knowledge.

Im not so sure its really true, but many say it.

 

[DFWJC]

I have plenty of friends that went to both Rutgers and Maryland. I actually like both schools just fine.
But I think you are really overrating their academics. They are fine, but not great. They will for sure be in the middle (at best) of the Big Ten--as they would have been if they were both in the ACC.

Rutgers ranks maybe 60th (68th, actually) in National Research Universities and Maryland (58th) ranked in the middle of all ACC schools in academics....not even remotely in the same league as Duke, Virginia, UNC, Wake Forest, Ga Tech and lower or the same as Pitt, Syracuse, Clemson, etc .

Don't get me wrong, they are plenty good...enough to fit right in with both conferences. That's saying a lot.

If it helps, both Md and Rutgers would be the second school in the Big 12 (US news National Universities)
Rutgers would be tied for 12th in the ACC and will be 6th or 7th in the Big 10.

I didn't realize it, but the SEC actually is more highly rated than our semi-beloved big 12...who has only 3 schools in the top 100 and just 1 (texas) in the top 50 ...ouch.
The order is ACC, Pac 10, Big 10....very big gap...then SEC and Big 12.

Of course...you canalmost flip that list if you want to rank footbal conferences. lol

 

[Diogenes]

The order is ACC, Pac 10, Big 10....very big gap...then SEC and Big 12.

Of course...you canalmost flip that list if you want to rank footbal conferences. lol

Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

 

[Diogenes]

Why do you think Williams was better?

I mean, he did win a National Championship so if you base it on that, I could understand the reasoning but that's really the only advantage I can see.

Winning a National Championship would be one piece of the evidence. Lefty had the better overall talent (not that Gary had scrubs) and could never quite seem to get them over the hump. Lefty often had talent that rivaled that of State, Carolina and Duke. Gary rarely did, in part because he despised the AAU and refused to play by their rules. Gary was the better tactician, particularly on the defensive end of the court and seemed to have the ear of his players more often.

 

[Kangaroo]

What no one realizes or cares about is what this does to the other sports (on this form)

In Maryland the Men Lacrosse team is huge and what are they going to do.

Most of the Lacrosse Championships have come out of ACC or Big east and a few Ivy league and stuff mixed in.

The Big Ten according to the article only has 5 schools counting Maryland and the Big Ten Bylaws require 6 teams and the NCAA also requires 6 teams for automatic birth this hurts the Big East as well.

For schools like Georgetown, Maryland, Syracuse and some more teams it is a big deal.

It will be interesting to watch what happens with the Lacrosse leagues it may turn into a bunch of independents because of the football shake up.

 

[jterrell]

What no one realizes or cares about is what this does to the other sports (on this form)

In Maryland the Men Lacrosse team is huge and what are they going to do.

Most of the Lacrosse Championships have come out of ACC or Big east and a few Ivy league and stuff mixed in.

The Big Ten according to the article only has 5 schools counting Maryland and the Big Ten Bylaws require 6 teams and the NCAA also requires 6 teams for automatic birth this hurts the Big East as well.

For schools like Georgetown, Maryland, Syracuse and some more teams it is a big deal.

It will be interesting to watch what happens with the Lacrosse leagues it may turn into a bunch of independents because of the football shake up.

Maryland cancelled 7 sports because they were going broke in the ACC.
They will soon start those back up after they get the Big 10 money.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I have plenty of friends that went to both Rutgers and Maryland. I actually like both schools just fine.
But I think you are really overrating their academics. They are fine, but not great. They will for sure be in the middle (at best) of the Big Ten--as they would have been if they were both in the ACC.

Rutgers ranks maybe 60th (68th, actually) in National Research Universities and Maryland (58th) ranked in the middle of all ACC schools in academics....not even remotely in the same league as Duke, Virginia, UNC, Wake Forest, Ga Tech and lower or the same as Pitt, Syracuse, Clemson, etc .

Don't get me wrong, they are plenty good...enough to fit right in with both conferences. That's saying a lot.

Not really talking about Academics here. Talking about Research Grants that are funded by the Federal Government. It's a completely different can of worms.

Regardless, it's not just TV Market Share. They were selected based on more then just that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Gary being the better coach and Lefty better at recruiting thing seems to be just accepted as common knowledge.

Im not so sure its really true, but many say it.

Yeah, I know. I don't think it's true but I do know that what you are saying is true. Many do view it in just that light.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Winning a National Championship would be one piece of the evidence. Lefty had the better overall talent (not that Gary had scrubs) and could never quite seem to get them over the hump. Lefty often had talent that rivaled that of State, Carolina and Duke. Gary rarely did, in part because he despised the AAU and refused to play by their rules. Gary was the better tactician, particularly on the defensive end of the court and seemed to have the ear of his players more often.

I can't agree with this. You can say that Lefty was a better recruiter and that's probably true but I don't think you can say that he had better talent then Duke and Carolina very often at all. Lefty has a better winning percentage, when at Maryland then does Williams but, Williams also coached in a time when you had a lot more easy games on the schedule and the conference was much bigger. Lefty coached when you had 8 teams in the ACC and it was much tougher to win. Also much tougher to get into the tournament. Lefty was a heck of a coach and I think it's a fallacy to say that Williams was a better coach then Lefty. Statistically, I don't see it but even if you say that one was a better recruiter and the other a better x and o guy, what does that have to do with anything? The reality is that all of that goes into the makeup of a coach. The measuring stick is record I would think.

 

[Diogenes]

I can't agree with this. You can say that Lefty was a better recruiter and that's probably true but I don't think you can say that he had better talent then Duke and Carolina very often at all. Lefty has a better winning percentage, when at Maryland then does Williams but, Williams also coached in a time when you had a lot more easy games on the schedule and the conference was much bigger. Lefty coached when you had 8 teams in the ACC and it was much tougher to win. Also much tougher to get into the tournament. Lefty was a heck of a coach and I think it's a fallacy to say that Williams was a better coach then Lefty. Statistically, I don't see it but even if you say that one was a better recruiter and the other a better x and o guy, what does that have to do with anything? The reality is that all of that goes into the makeup of a coach. The measuring stick is record I would think.

Fair enough. We're just looking at it from a different viewpoint.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I have plenty of friends that went to both Rutgers and Maryland. I actually like both schools just fine.
But I think you are really overrating their academics. They are fine, but not great. They will for sure be in the middle (at best) of the Big Ten--as they would have been if they were both in the ACC.

Rutgers ranks maybe 60th (68th, actually) in National Research Universities and Maryland (58th) ranked in the middle of all ACC schools in academics....not even remotely in the same league as Duke, Virginia, UNC, Wake Forest, Ga Tech and lower or the same as Pitt, Syracuse, Clemson, etc .

Don't get me wrong, they are plenty good...enough to fit right in with both conferences. That's saying a lot.

The Big 10 is stronger academically across the board than the ACC. There is no NC State or FSU there. All except Nebraska are members of the AAU and they were as recently as 2 years ago.

The most important thing for Rutgers and Maryland is the CIC not athletics. The Big 10 plus the University of Chicago (basically has emeritus status as they no longer emphasis athletics) share much more academically than any other conference.

Ten years from now the research at both Rutgers and Maryland will dwarf what they have now.

But let's not kid ourselves. This move was financial, pure and simple. .70 inside the "footprint" vs. .12 outside for the BTN. That's millions of dollars a month, potentially even more if Fox leverages the YES network with BTN.