News: Matt Holleran: Dak Ranked 8 (Some good points)

[MichaelWinicki]

Fair rank for Dak

Yeah, I think that's about right.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I said you can win with Dak, but is not elite. How did you get that I hate him out of that?

What is elite?

He's not Mahomes
He's not Wilson
He's not Rodgers
He's not Brady
He's not Brees
He's not Watson
He may not even be Wentz

Showing flashes of elite play does not make a player elite. You have to show elite play over a long period to be considered elite. I would not say Lamar Jackson is elite yet because he's only done it for one season.

Dak hasn't played at a consistently elite level over an extended period. As evidence, please refer to the second Eagles game.

I am hopeful that bringing in McCarthy will make a difference. It's certainly better than Garrett and the clown show he provided.

I don't think Watson should be part of that group.

Brady isn't what he was either.

Probably not long before Brees drops off the list.

Wentz has more to prove.

 

[blueblood70]

Im walking away,, I just cant handle this anymore,, Mods need to do something about Dak content ,, please consolidate.
This is a good thing,, at least for the wife, Im actually going to accomplish some honey dos, is that proper spelling? lol
Last day of vacation, and haven't done anything all week,,,

yup agree until this is all resolved please create a DAKZone and pout ALL Dak content on one place and the Fan zone marked safe from Dak talk..its should be choice to see it..its like moths to fire you know better but you open it anyway,, my nightmare..

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Im walking away,, I just cant handle this anymore,, Mods need to do something about Dak content ,, please consolidate.
This is a good thing,, at least for the wife, Im actually going to accomplish some honey dos, is that proper spelling? lol
Last day of vacation, and haven't done anything all week,,,

New content is new content.

QB talk has always dominated the forum... I can remember all the posts about Q. Carter.

2ndly, you have contract thing that is driving a lot of posts. Once that is sorted many of the new threads will drop.

Finally, if we weren't posting about Dak… There isn't much else to drive new threads right at the moment.

The combine, free agency, the draft & mini-camp will generate some new content.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

yup agree until this is all resolved please create a DAKZone and pout ALL Dak content on one place and the Fan zone marked safe from Dak talk..its should be choice to see it..its like moths to fire you know better but you open it anyway,, my nightmare..

Hmm.

Not going to happen.

Again, the amount of new content (outside of Prescott talk) is pretty sparse right now.

 

[JoeKing]

For the bargain that the Cowboys have been getting at the QB position the past 4 season, they should not resist his desire to be fairly compensated. Dak certainly has not been paid for what is commensurate of what the 8th best QB should be paid.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The numbers on deep accuracy match the eyeball test too, especially in contrast to all the overthrows of wide open guys in 2018. The deep accuracy puts teams in a bind if they crowd the LOS to stop Zeke. I wish we have played Smith more, as his deep speed is better than Gallup's, backing off defenses better on run downs.

I think one critical area Dak needs to improve on is his accuracy on the crossing routes. Many of the “drops” registered to the receivers this year were due in large part to Dak throwing behind them instead of leading them. Even on some of the ones where he did connect there was hidden/potential yardage lost because they weren’t hit in stride.

I thought Dak was better in the deep game than we’ve seen in the previous years.

 

[johneric8]

I said you can win with Dak, but is not elite. How did you get that I hate him out of that?

What is elite?

He's not Mahomes
He's not Wilson
He's not Rodgers
He's not Brady
He's not Brees
He's not Watson
He may not even be Wentz

Showing flashes of elite play does not make a player elite. You have to show elite play over a long period to be considered elite. I would not say Lamar Jackson is elite yet because he's only done it for one season.

Dak hasn't played at a consistently elite level over an extended period. As evidence, please refer to the second Eagles game.

I am hopeful that bringing in McCarthy will make a difference. It's certainly better than Garrett and the clown show he provided.

I think we just disagree, I think Dak has played at an Elite level on and off throughout his short career. Please keep in mind that Brees has had years of mediocrity where he couldn't get the team over the hump, and so has Rodgers... I've seen dak look as good as those guys in different areas... I get that you're right in the sense that Dak hasn't been Elite yet consistently but to say he will never be is cray cray considering the coaches he has had to endure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No it doesn’t.

Getting a finger on it. Doesn’t make it a catchable pass. If it’s behind but the receiver still reaches back and gets hands on it. Then it’s a catchable pass.

Well, what constitutes a drop has been posted on this board. If you have something that contracts what other posters have posted previously, please post it.

 

[xwalker]

First, Mahomes hasn't signed so you can't answer that. Second, the team has reportedly already made an offer of 35 and it's been rejected.

Media Speculation...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Media Speculation...

But according to inside sources so you can't really know for sure if it's true or not but we do know that Stephen is on record as saying the team offered a top 5 contract to him an we do know that the initial offer from the team, as reported by multiple media sources has been at least 33 Mil. It would stand to reason that the follow up offer would have been in excess of the 33. So if this is what you are referring to as media speculation, I think there is at least some foundation there.

 

[xwalker]

Well, what constitutes a drop has been posted on this board. If you have something that contracts what other posters have posted previously, please post it.

What is @DakPresgoat talking about?

His definition of catchable pass is not the NFL's definition or anybody else's definition.

Having said that, the definition of "drop" varies depending on the source of the stats data.

PFF has become the defacto source for that stat. Their drops leader in a season has varied by up to 50% as compared to the other source of stats for drops.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What is @DakPresgoat talking about?

His definition of catchable pass is not the NFL's definition or anybody else's definition.

Having said that, the definition of "drop" varies depending on the source of the stats data.

PFF has become the defacto source for that stat. Their drops leader in a season has varied by up to 50% as compared to the other source of stats for drops.

I think this is accurate. I think it depends on the source of the data. So I guess we would need to know what PFF's definition is.

 

[xwalker]

But according to inside sources so you can't really know for sure if it's true or not but we do know that Stephen is on record as saying the team offered a top 5 contract to him an we do know that the initial offer from the team, as reported by multiple media sources has been at least 33 Mil. It would stand to reason that the follow up offer would have been in excess of the 33. So if this is what you are referring to as media speculation, I think there is at least some foundation there.

Stop and think about what you're saying. There is no real information in those media or SJ statements.

The negotiation range is obviously somewhere between 5th and something above 1st.

5th: Wentz 32M per

1st: Russell Wilson 35M per'

The agent likely asked for about 10% over first which would be 38.5M.

The Cowboys original offer was likely around the Wentz deal at 32M.

For the media to say that it's in that range and for SJ to say it's top 5 is like one of those pay for betting tips hotlines telling you that the Cowboys will win between 0 and 16 games next season. Even if they tighten that up to between 6 and 12 wins, it's meaningless.

Everyone with any common sense knows it going to be over 30M per and under 40M per. Reports about offers and rejections in the range between that are meaningless reports.

The structure is also an issue. If the agent will take zero guaranteed money, then the Cowboys will offer 40M per. If the agent wants to get over 35M that is only going to happen if they take a lower percentage of guaranteed money than the Wentz contract.

 

[xwalker]

I think this is accurate. I think it depends on the source of the data. So I guess we would need to know what PFF's definition is.

PFF goes by distance from the center of the numbers on the Jersey. I don't know the exact distance they use, but that's how they define it.

It's never going to be perfect. PFF goes by the point at which the ball arrives. If primary LeBron played WR and jumped 6 feet off the ground, the target would still be considered his Jersey numbers while he was in the air. If he reached up over his head and caught the ball at helmet level, it would be considered a catch-able pass despite being thrown 8 feet too high.

On the flip side, if a WR stumbles and is 2 yards slower downfield than planned while running a deep pass route, they will still look at the distance between where the ball arrives and where the WR is located. That distance will be 2 yards off because the WR was delayed but it will go down in the stats as an over-thrown pass. If it does come within catch-able range of that WR, it will go in the stats as catch-able but the QB actually threw is 2 yards short of where he was intending to throw it (assuming the WR stumbled after the pass was released).'

Drops are OK as an estimate but not a very reliable stat.dd

I would prefer a "hit the WR's hands but was not caught" stat and listed in terms of percentage. The WR had 50 passes hit his hands and he caught 40 of them. His drop percentage on hit-hands passes would be 20%.

That obviously leaves out all the balls that were in catch-able range but were not caught; however, it gives a better indicator of when the WRs just choked.

 

[Sevenup3000]

I said you can win with Dak, but is not elite. How did you get that I hate him out of that?

What is elite?

He's not Mahomes
He's not Wilson
He's not Rodgers
He's not Brady
He's not Brees
He's not Watson
He may not even be Wentz

Showing flashes of elite play does not make a player elite. You have to show elite play over a long period to be considered elite. I would not say Lamar Jackson is elite yet because he's only done it for one season.

Dak hasn't played at a consistently elite level over an extended period. As evidence, please refer to the second Eagles game.

I am hopeful that bringing in McCarthy will make a difference. It's certainly better than Garrett and the clown show he provided.

As evidence of Dak's ability to play at an consistent high level, please refer to the 2019 season and more specifically to the first Eagles game WHEN HE ACTUALLY COULD PRACTICE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE SHOULDER INJURY.

 

[Direwolf63]

I don't think Watson should be part of that group.

Brady isn't what he was either.

Probably not long before Brees drops off the list.

Wentz has more to prove.

Watson may not be part of that group, but I'd take him over Dak.

Of course Brady is not what he was, but surround him with playmakers and I would still take him over Dak

Brees may fall off the list if he retires, but he can still play at a high level. He proved it last year.

I agree on Wentz.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I think one critical area Dak needs to improve on is his accuracy on the crossing routes. Many of the “drops” registered to the receivers this year were due in large part to Dak throwing behind them instead of leading them. Even on some of the ones where he did connect there was hidden/potential yardage lost because they weren’t hit in stride.

I thought Dak was better in the deep game than we’ve seen in the previous years.

I'm amazed at how much his deep balls have improved. So many overthrows on open WRs in 2018. Not this year. The turn around isn't just good for deep balls, but a good indication of Dak's ability to improve.

Crossing routes are his biggest weakness. Not just for accuracy, but for INTs. He sees defenders covering receivers. Doesn't see those DBs that receivers run towards. That's where he gets in trouble.

That's surely harder for all QBs, but it's a relative weakness for Dak. McCarthy should help with more spread offense, singling up DBs on receivers more.

 

[MWH1967]

Dak is far from elite, but you can win with Dak.

Anyone who can't see that either doesn't know the game or has an agenda.

An average QB's QBR is 50. Dak;s is 71.8 I'll let the masses put him where he belongs.


* Mahomes QBR for the 2019 season...76.3 Garoppolo QBR for 2019 season...58.8

This site is a little different but, you can see a bigger picture..

It's all about timing and balance. one could softly argue Dak is indeed elite.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct....com/nfl/qbr&usg=AOvVaw1852ccNmrqf1dAo_biz25Y

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Stop and think about what you're saying. There is no real information in those media or SJ statements.

The negotiation range is obviously somewhere between 5th and something above 1st.

5th: Wentz 32M per

1st: Russell Wilson 35M per'

The agent likely asked for about 10% over first which would be 38.5M.

The Cowboys original offer was likely around the Wentz deal at 32M.

For the media to say that it's in that range and for SJ to say it's top 5 is like one of those pay for betting tips hotlines telling you that the Cowboys will win between 0 and 16 games next season. Even if they tighten that up to between 6 and 12 wins, it's meaningless.

Everyone with any common sense knows it going to be over 30M per and under 40M per. Reports about offers and rejections in the range between that are meaningless reports.

The structure is also an issue. If the agent will take zero guaranteed money, then the Cowboys will offer 40M per. If the agent wants to get over 35M that is only going to happen if they take a lower percentage of guaranteed money than the Wentz contract.

Walker, there is no revelation in this post. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to get across here. We all know this but, what exactly does it change?